texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
OregonWild, RAUKUS01, Dutch_Dogs_77, ShootScootLoot, JerryC12
72136 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,810
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,571
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 44,161
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics539,025
Posts9,744,330
Members87,136
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Kill a hog, save a fawn #9046929 05/14/24 01:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,284
T
Texas Dan Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,284
I have always shot and left hogs in the woods during the late Spring and early summer months with the thought that if I could keep coyotes busying eating pork, they would be less likely to go looking for fawns. As it turns out, a recent study by two wildlife biologists in South Carolina uncovered some interesting findings that seem to support my rationale. The study involved tracking the movements of radio-collared does with fawns and coyotes to see what could be learned from their movements. One of the key findings was that much of a coyote's success in finding fawns comes from following their mother. More specifically, the study discovered the following...

1. The number of times a doe visits her fawn each day increases the chances the fawn will be found and eaten by coyotes.

2. Does that visit their fawns more during the day when coyotes are less active have a greater chance at survival.

3. Does that visit their fawns more at night decrease their fawn's chance at survival.

4. The abundance of other, seasonal food sources including wild berries and fruit, keep coyotes occupied so they spend less time looking for and following does.

It's this last point, that in my opinion, seems to indicate that if you offer coyotes something else to eat, they spend less time looking for does and following them to their fawns. Also, common sense would seem to dictate the more hogs you leave for coyotes during the fawning season, the greater chance fawns will make it.

For those who might want to learn more about the study, there's an article in the current (June) issue of Deer and Deer Hunting magazine that covers it quite well.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/14/24 02:43 AM.

"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9046966 05/14/24 03:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,024
U
unclebubba Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
U
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,024
I like to leave the pigs in the bone yard and then kill the coyotes that come to eat the pigs. A dead coyote won't be eating any fawns.


http://www.boatloan.com/michael-hunt/

Originally Posted by Nolanco
current federal policy is clearly irrational, scientifically insupportable and ridiculous.
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9047039 05/14/24 12:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,092
T
txtrophy85 Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,092
We used to set up cameras on guy piles and hog carcasses.

Never had a coyote come to one. Seems they didn’t like them.

Out west the coyotes would completely erase an aoudad carcass overnight.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9047048 05/14/24 12:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,617
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,617
Coyotes get all over our gut piles and carcasses.

I think the biggest thing to protect fawns is good cover.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: redchevy] #9047062 05/14/24 12:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,724
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,724
Originally Posted by redchevy
Coyotes get all over our gut piles and carcasses.

I think the biggest thing to protect fawns is good cover.


I have tons of cedar and shinnery oak brush, but I think the coyotes learn to hunt it pretty well. Between that and the heat/drought, the last two fawn crops were rough. I can tell when the fawns start coming as the yotes quit eating my sheep for 8-10 weeks. However, my trapper has worked his tail off and this last fall we didn't lose a single lamb (I lamb starting in October). We caught our last coyote in early March. We'll see what happens when the fawns start dropping.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9047069 05/14/24 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,284
T
Texas Dan Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,284
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks

I have tons of cedar and shinnery oak brush, but I think the coyotes learn to hunt it pretty well.


I've known them to sit and watch a feeder from a distance. This recent study seems to indicate it could be a good spot for them to start following does back to their fawns. If so, simply limiting feeding times to the middle of the day when coyotes are less active or turning them off completely during the peak of the fawning season might help improve fawn survival.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/14/24 01:15 PM.

"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9047073 05/14/24 01:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,617
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,617
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by redchevy
Coyotes get all over our gut piles and carcasses.

I think the biggest thing to protect fawns is good cover.


I have tons of cedar and shinnery oak brush, but I think the coyotes learn to hunt it pretty well. Between that and the heat/drought, the last two fawn crops were rough. I can tell when the fawns start coming as the yotes quit eating my sheep for 8-10 weeks. However, my trapper has worked his tail off and this last fall we didn't lose a single lamb (I lamb starting in October). We caught our last coyote in early March. We'll see what happens when the fawns start dropping.

You have sheep, chances are they eat you good fawning cover. We hav loads of coyotes and bobcats. Every year without fail hot mild wet dry we have a great fawn crop. We have zero stock.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9047076 05/14/24 01:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,537
J
jimbob Online Content
Pro Tracker
Online Content
Pro Tracker
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,537
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks

I have tons of cedar and shinnery oak brush, but I think the coyotes learn to hunt it pretty well.


I've known them to sit and watch a feeder from a distance. This recent study seems to indicate it could be a good spot for them to start following does back to their fawns. If so, simply limiting feeding times to the middle of the day when coyotes are less active or turning them off completely during the peak of the fawning season might help improve fawn survival.


Yup, I have seen 2 yotes laying in the brush behind feeder waiting for a free meal to come along

Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9047128 05/14/24 03:16 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 502
F
fishbait Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
F
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 502
For coyotes if ya don't have many rabbits I suggest you trap some and turn em loose on your lease and don't kill rabbits. Our survival rates remain constant so I don't think we ever had a problem with Coyotes or bobcats. Bobcats eat mostly birds and rabbits, however, if a fawn dies they will make a mill or two. Our bobcats eat in the pen with deer only a few feet away. Our deer will run away at the site or smell of a coyote.
When we kill a hog the buzzards clean em up pretty fast but coyotes will help eat also...mostly buzzards were on our cameras. We dropped off three hogs after lunch and they were all gone the next morning.

Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9047149 05/14/24 04:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,065
T
Texas buckeye Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,065
Every place is a little different, and each micro ecosystem has variations that make things different for each place.

My place has a lot of good fawning cover, an abundant supply of small game, and we have a audible population of coyotes but rarely see them on camera or in the wild. Hogs are around, but not a terrible nuisance, and we always have an abundant fawn crop.

Places that have less fawning cover will have more coyote action on fawns, but it might not be just because the fawns are easily hunted but also because the exposure may weaken the fawns and allow them to die off easier. Another aspect that is overlooked is the effect moisture has on fawns. Mainly within the first week of life, moisture will work to weaken a fawn to the point it can not maintain body temperature, and research has shown for each inch of rain in the first month of life the fawn mortality increases proportionately.

There is also theory that coyotes don't mainly eat live fawns but mainly scavenge the dead ones or very sick ones they find. The play between predator and prey in mother nature is a delicate one, and one we should let happen. When we try to control mother nature too much, typically bad things happen.

As a general rule of thumb, I try not to play God.

Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9050139 05/21/24 01:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,488
N
ntxtrapper Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,488
Coyotes are the most prevalent fawn killers here. I watch it all play out every day and there’s no question.

Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: ntxtrapper] #9050165 05/21/24 02:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,020
S
Stompy Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
S
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,020
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Coyotes are the most prevalent fawn killers here. I watch it all play out every day and there’s no question.

Absolutely true. I hate them and kill them anyway I can.


www.jaranchhunting.com
Cabin Rentals on the ranch for Hubbard Creek Lake
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9050256 05/21/24 01:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,852
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,852
Being less under the weather now, I might set my hog trap. The wife wants him gone, she thinks he’ll eat fawns, and I think she has designs on his back straps. After the last time she cooked hog backstrap, I am all in favor of keeping her supplied.

This morning we had our first yard fawn show up. Cute little thing. The mama parked it in the tall grass near the corn feeder. That’s good, but yesterday we had a coyote in the yard, which is rare.

So…trap hog…shoot coyote…


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: 603Country] #9050330 05/21/24 03:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,617
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,617
Originally Posted by 603Country
Being less under the weather now, I might set my hog trap. The wife wants him gone, she thinks he’ll eat fawns, and I think she has designs on his back straps. After the last time she cooked hog backstrap, I am all in favor of keeping her supplied.

This morning we had our first yard fawn show up. Cute little thing. The mama parked it in the tall grass near the corn feeder. That’s good, but yesterday we had a coyote in the yard, which is rare.

So…trap hog…shoot coyote…

This reminds me, every year my folks have several does drop fawns I. The chain link fenced backyard the fawns can’t get out. They leave them off and on during the day. No dogs and fawns are contained. I think they treat it like a play pen lol.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas Dan] #9050372 05/21/24 04:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,852
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,852
Around our house and maybe 8 acres, we have net wire fencing. Deer are relatively safe, compared to the rest of our place, so it’s normal to have a fawn or two deposited here by mama. Here’s one being investigated by Sunny the cat. Sunny bopped the fawn lightly on the head and the fawn wobbled away. My wife loves watching the fawns.[Linked Image]

Last edited by 603Country; 05/21/24 05:01 PM.

Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas buckeye] #9050381 05/21/24 04:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,243
F
flintknapper Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
F
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,243
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Every place is a little different, and each micro ecosystem has variations that make things different for each place.

My place has a lot of good fawning cover, an abundant supply of small game, and we have a audible population of coyotes but rarely see them on camera or in the wild. Hogs are around, but not a terrible nuisance, and we always have an abundant fawn crop.

Places that have less fawning cover will have more coyote action on fawns, but it might not be just because the fawns are easily hunted but also because the exposure may weaken the fawns and allow them to die off easier. Another aspect that is overlooked is the effect moisture has on fawns. Mainly within the first week of life, moisture will work to weaken a fawn to the point it can not maintain body temperature, and research has shown for each inch of rain in the first month of life the fawn mortality increases proportionately.

There is also theory that coyotes don't mainly eat live fawns but mainly scavenge the dead ones or very sick ones they find. The play between predator and prey in mother nature is a delicate one, and one we should let happen. When we try to control mother nature too much, typically bad things happen.

As a general rule of thumb, I try not to play God.


^^^^^

It's not playing 'God' to (manage) the numbers and presence of certain animals. We aren't permanently altering the ecosystem He created and it was God that gave US 'dominion' over the animals. Trusting us to be good 'stewards' of everything given to us.

When things clearly get out of balance.....it is our duty to try to correct it. Everything has its place and purpose, I would not argue that. But, it isn't playing God for man to responsibly take actions when things get out of kilter. 'Nature' was never meant to be left completely to its own devices.

Last edited by flintknapper; 05/21/24 05:01 PM.

Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: 603Country] #9050417 05/21/24 06:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,488
N
ntxtrapper Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,488
Originally Posted by 603Country
Being less under the weather now, I might set my hog trap. The wife wants him gone, she thinks he’ll eat fawns, and I think she has designs on his back straps. After the last time she cooked hog backstrap, I am all in favor of keeping her supplied.

This morning we had our first yard fawn show up. Cute little thing. The mama parked it in the tall grass near the corn feeder. That’s good, but yesterday we had a coyote in the yard, which is rare.

So…trap hog…shoot coyote…


I bury hog carcasses with my tractor so as to not attract every coyote to my place. It works. The city lease hunters shoot them and leave them so they can have the bulk of coyotes here.

Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: flintknapper] #9050837 Yesterday at 05:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,065
T
Texas buckeye Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,065
Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Every place is a little different, and each micro ecosystem has variations that make things different for each place.

My place has a lot of good fawning cover, an abundant supply of small game, and we have a audible population of coyotes but rarely see them on camera or in the wild. Hogs are around, but not a terrible nuisance, and we always have an abundant fawn crop.

Places that have less fawning cover will have more coyote action on fawns, but it might not be just because the fawns are easily hunted but also because the exposure may weaken the fawns and allow them to die off easier. Another aspect that is overlooked is the effect moisture has on fawns. Mainly within the first week of life, moisture will work to weaken a fawn to the point it can not maintain body temperature, and research has shown for each inch of rain in the first month of life the fawn mortality increases proportionately.

There is also theory that coyotes don't mainly eat live fawns but mainly scavenge the dead ones or very sick ones they find. The play between predator and prey in mother nature is a delicate one, and one we should let happen. When we try to control mother nature too much, typically bad things happen.

As a general rule of thumb, I try not to play God.


^^^^^

It's not playing 'God' to (manage) the numbers and presence of certain animals. We aren't permanently altering the ecosystem He created and it was God that gave US 'dominion' over the animals. Trusting us to be good 'stewards' of everything given to us.

When things clearly get out of balance.....it is our duty to try to correct it. Everything has its place and purpose, I would not argue that. But, it isn't playing God for man to responsibly take actions when things get out of kilter. 'Nature' was never meant to be left completely to its own devices.


Reading my last paragraph and the last sentence together gives where I was coming from. I wasn't suggesting we can not try o manage things and control some aspects, but when we get too over-controlling and try to exert too much control over God's domain, normally there are repercussions. That's all I was getting alt. I probably should not have left that last sentence as a stand alone, it belonged at the end of the paragraph to read :

The play between predator and prey in mother nature is a delicate one, and one we should let happen. When we try to control mother nature too much typically bad things happen. As a general rule of thumb, I try not to play God.

Re: Kill a hog, save a fawn [Re: Texas buckeye] #9050843 Yesterday at 05:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,243
F
flintknapper Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
F
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,243
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Every place is a little different, and each micro ecosystem has variations that make things different for each place.

My place has a lot of good fawning cover, an abundant supply of small game, and we have a audible population of coyotes but rarely see them on camera or in the wild. Hogs are around, but not a terrible nuisance, and we always have an abundant fawn crop.

Places that have less fawning cover will have more coyote action on fawns, but it might not be just because the fawns are easily hunted but also because the exposure may weaken the fawns and allow them to die off easier. Another aspect that is overlooked is the effect moisture has on fawns. Mainly within the first week of life, moisture will work to weaken a fawn to the point it can not maintain body temperature, and research has shown for each inch of rain in the first month of life the fawn mortality increases proportionately.

There is also theory that coyotes don't mainly eat live fawns but mainly scavenge the dead ones or very sick ones they find. The play between predator and prey in mother nature is a delicate one, and one we should let happen. When we try to control mother nature too much, typically bad things happen.

As a general rule of thumb, I try not to play God.


^^^^^

It's not playing 'God' to (manage) the numbers and presence of certain animals. We aren't permanently altering the ecosystem He created and it was God that gave US 'dominion' over the animals. Trusting us to be good 'stewards' of everything given to us.

When things clearly get out of balance.....it is our duty to try to correct it. Everything has its place and purpose, I would not argue that. But, it isn't playing God for man to responsibly take actions when things get out of kilter. 'Nature' was never meant to be left completely to its own devices.


Reading my last paragraph and the last sentence together gives where I was coming from. I wasn't suggesting we can not try o manage things and control some aspects, but when we get too over-controlling and try to exert too much control over God's domain, normally there are repercussions. That's all I was getting alt. I probably should not have left that last sentence as a stand alone, it belonged at the end of the paragraph to read :

The play between predator and prey in mother nature is a delicate one, and one we should let happen. When we try to control mother nature too much typically bad things happen. As a general rule of thumb, I try not to play God.




Gothca, thanks for the clarification. up


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3