texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
MbellTX, Oldhuntinbuddy, Mebrid, GKFire, IHNTDUX
72141 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,811
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,589
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 44,182
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics539,132
Posts9,745,908
Members87,141
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks #9032441 04/11/24 02:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,273
Tbar Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,273
Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks For Firearms


Quote
The Biden administration is moving to expand background checks for gun purchases, fulfilling a key demand of advocates following the deadly shooting at a school in Uvalde, Texas.

The final rule, expected to be submitted Thursday to the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, would eliminate a loophole that has allowed sales of guns without background checks of guns outside of brick-and-mortar stores.

The rule was issued under a provision of the 2022 Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. It requires that anyone who sells guns for profit to have a license and that buyers be subject to a background check, including at firearms shows and flea markets. The administration had been working on the rule since last spring. Once publicized, it will take effect in 30 days…..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-close-gun-show-loophole-090000164.html


Make America Great Again

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9032487 04/11/24 04:05 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,228
P
papa45 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
P
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,228
I read about that earlier this morning. This has been talked about for decades. As I recall, it was "fixed" a few years ago and nothing changed that I could tell. It's already the law. A dealer is a dealer is a dealer. Tightening up the definition of a dealer probably won't make much difference, except to allow politicians to say they did something. I don't see any impact on private one-on-one sales. Just more political bluster going into election season.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9032847 04/12/24 03:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
T
TxCookin Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
I hate to say it, but this is a total reconstruction of what a "dealer" in firearms is.

The revisions and additions read as follows:

§ 478.11

Meaning of terms.
* * * * *
Dealer.
Any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or any person who is a pawnbroker. The term shall include any person who engages in such business or occupation on a part-time basis. The term shall include such activities wherever, or through whatever medium, they may be conducted, such as at a gun show or event, flea market, auction house, or gun range or club; at one's home; by mail order; over the internet; through the use of other electronic means (
e.g.,
an online broker, online auction, text messaging service, social media raffle, or website); or at any other domestic or international public or private marketplace or premises.

Engaged in the business
(c)
Dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker.
(1) A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of the person's personal collection of firearms. The term shall not include an auctioneer who provides only auction services on commission by assisting in liquidating a personal collection of firearms at an estate-type auction, provided the auctioneer does not purchase the firearms, take possession of the firearms prior to the auction, or consign the firearms for sale.
(2) For purposes of this definition—
(i) The term “purchase” (and derivative terms thereof) means the act of obtaining a firearm in exchange for something of value;
(ii) The term “sale” (and derivative terms thereof, including “resale”) means the act of providing a firearm in exchange for something of value; and
(iii) The term “something of value” includes money, credit, personal property (
e.g., another firearm or ammunition), a service, a controlled substance, or any other medium of exchange or valuable consideration.

Full text here:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...-in-the-business-as-a-dealer-in-firearms

From an earlier post I made back in Oct. :

I spoke with a couple of gun show promoters.... they say if this rule goes on the books, they will have to limit all table sales to licensed
FFL's, That means all those great collections/deals that you used to find at the shows will be gone. No more guys wanting or able to sell grandpa's
collection or dad's or theirs for that matter, no more legal cash sales at the shows without the damn NICS BS!

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: papa45] #9032857 04/12/24 03:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 957
GNTX Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 957
Originally Posted by papa45
I read about that earlier this morning. This has been talked about for decades. As I recall, it was "fixed" a few years ago and nothing changed that I could tell. It's already the law. A dealer is a dealer is a dealer. Tightening up the definition of a dealer probably won't make much difference, except to allow politicians to say they did something. I don't see any impact on private one-on-one sales. Just more political bluster going into election season.


Here is an excerpt from the new rule that might get a lot of people in hot water…

[Linked Image]

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9032880 04/12/24 09:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,320
Ramsey Offline
Pepe' Le Pew
Offline
Pepe' Le Pew
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,320
I hate Biden


Big Beckett!!
Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9032912 04/12/24 11:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,273
Tbar Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,273
So does this mean no more private sales at gun shows?


Make America Great Again

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Ramsey] #9032917 04/12/24 11:27 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,103
skinnerback Online Content
THF Celebrity Chef
Online Content
THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,103
Originally Posted by Ramsey
I hate Biden

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9032950 04/12/24 12:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,273
Tbar Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,273
From an article on 1440 news this morning:

Quote
Researchers say there's moderate evidence background checks reduce gun homicide rates. Out of 40 million such checks in 2021, roughly 150,000 were denied. Nearly 68,000 illegally trafficked firearms were sold via unlicensed dealers between 2017 and 2021.


150,000/40,000,000=.00375 .375% rejected.

That justifies encroachment on Americans Constitutional rights? scratch


Make America Great Again

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9032968 04/12/24 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
T
TxCookin Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
Quote
So does this mean no more private sales at gun shows?



That exactly what they are aiming for. Making it a crime to sell your guns ay gun shows,garage sales, flea markets, Especially online sales like this site.
Unless you are a Dealer, or use a dealer for the sale, you commit a crime. That way they can track and all sales and transfers in the database
that Federal law says they are not supposed to keep. Even though through many multiple FOIA requests, it has been proven they are keeping a massive database.
They want to know who has what and where, when they decide to confiscate them.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9033166 04/12/24 05:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,384
R
rolyat.nosaj Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
R
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,384
The Biden administration held a press call on Wednesday to discuss the “engaged in the business” final rule that clears up language in the Bipartisan Community Safety Act of 2022.

This new rule is meant to address the so-called “gun show loophole.”

By law, anyone who deals in firearms “for profit” must get a federal license and conduct criminal background checks. However, some sellers have found a way to skirt that law, selling guns at gun shows, flea markets and even on the internet.

So what does this mean? If I sell a gun that doesn't necessarily mean I sold it for profit. I'm confused.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: rolyat.nosaj] #9033415 04/13/24 02:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
T
TxCookin Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
By the way Texans...you have Senator John Cornyn to thank for this due to his pivotal role in the so called
"bipartisan Safer Communities Act" his backing and support help get this trash through the legislative process.
That piece of crap bill started the ball rolling. He will never get my vote again.

According to the 2A Attorneys I have watched who have read through the new "rule" interpretation, if you as an individual sell any firearm for more than you paid
for it , then you will have made a "profit." Given their past behavior with other new "interpretations" of rules, the ATF will twist things around
and find you in violation, and therefore subject to punishment under the law.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9034092 04/14/24 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,891
1
10 Gauge Online Content
Extreme Tracker
Online Content
Extreme Tracker
1
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,891
I am still waiting for them to close the gun theft loophole. Until they find a way to stop criminals from stealing guns, they will have them. Close the gun theft loophole!


1 Thessalonians 4:11-14
Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9036527 04/20/24 08:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,637
Texas452 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,637
FJB

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: 10 Gauge] #9036792 04/21/24 02:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
The Dude Abides Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
Originally Posted by 10 Gauge
I am still waiting for them to close the gun theft loophole. Until they find a way to stop criminals from stealing guns, they will have them. Close the gun theft loophole!

Responsible gun owners need to do their part. Quit leaving them unsecured, make if difficult for the criminals. Vehicles are NOT secure storage.


Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9037578 04/23/24 11:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,565
S
Slow Drifter Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
S
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,565
This is about revenue, not gun or any other kind of safety. They can only tax what they are aware of. It's about money, all DC cares about. They don't give two %$#@'s about us. They're using "gun safety" as an excuse to tap into a free trade market. Much like they did with alcohol and tobacco. Hmmmm.....

Last edited by Slow Drifter; 04/23/24 11:30 AM. Reason: Just 'cause

"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

A. Einstein

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: The Dude Abides] #9037603 04/23/24 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,911
G
Gringo Bling Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
G
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,911
Originally Posted by The Dude Abides
Originally Posted by 10 Gauge
I am still waiting for them to close the gun theft loophole. Until they find a way to stop criminals from stealing guns, they will have them. Close the gun theft loophole!

Responsible gun owners need to do their part. Quit leaving them unsecured, make if difficult for the criminals. Vehicles are NOT secure storage.

Couldn't agree more. Our neighborhood paper lists police report details. The vast majority of these are vehicle break-ins. And the vast majority of those are unlocked vehicles. It's amazing how many valuables (guns included) are stolen.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9037795 04/23/24 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 409
L
lcbl75771 Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
L
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 409
So how will this work? A person conducting a private sale every now and then is required to do a background check. A person cannot submit a background check unless he holds an FFL license. In Texas, the only requirement other than federal requirements, is you must be registered as a business to obtain an FFL. So how does a private seller perform a background check? confused2

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: lcbl75771] #9037807 04/23/24 08:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
The Dude Abides Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
Originally Posted by lcbl75771
So how will this work? A person conducting a private sale every now and then is required to do a background check. A person cannot submit a background check unless he holds an FFL license. In Texas, the only requirement other than federal requirements, is you must be registered as a business to obtain an FFL. So how does a private seller perform a background check? confused2

The both parties go to a gun shop and let them do the transfer. Of course there will be fees associated with this service.


Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: lcbl75771] #9037811 04/23/24 08:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,026
U
unclebubba Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
U
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,026
Originally Posted by lcbl75771
So how will this work? A person conducting a private sale every now and then is required to do a background check. A person cannot submit a background check unless he holds an FFL license. In Texas, the only requirement other than federal requirements, is you must be registered as a business to obtain an FFL. So how does a private seller perform a background check? confused2

I think that’s the point. They are making it where you can not sell a gun as an individual unless you are selling it for no profit or a loss. That rifle that you paid $200 for 20 years ago must be sold for $200 today or you need to get your FFL. Forcing you to get an FFL license for almost every transaction.


http://www.boatloan.com/michael-hunt/

Originally Posted by Nolanco
current federal policy is clearly irrational, scientifically insupportable and ridiculous.
Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: unclebubba] #9037869 04/23/24 10:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
The Dude Abides Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by lcbl75771
So how will this work? A person conducting a private sale every now and then is required to do a background check. A person cannot submit a background check unless he holds an FFL license. In Texas, the only requirement other than federal requirements, is you must be registered as a business to obtain an FFL. So how does a private seller perform a background check? confused2

I think that’s the point. They are making it where you can not sell a gun as an individual unless you are selling it for no profit or a loss. That rifle that you paid $200 for 20 years ago must be sold for $200 today or you need to get your FFL. Forcing you to get an FFL license for almost every transaction.

Getting an FFL license is not that easy. They just don't hand them out like they do a DL.


Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: The Dude Abides] #9037888 04/23/24 11:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,026
U
unclebubba Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
U
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,026
Originally Posted by The Dude Abides
Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by lcbl75771
So how will this work? A person conducting a private sale every now and then is required to do a background check. A person cannot submit a background check unless he holds an FFL license. In Texas, the only requirement other than federal requirements, is you must be registered as a business to obtain an FFL. So how does a private seller perform a background check? confused2

I think that’s the point. They are making it where you can not sell a gun as an individual unless you are selling it for no profit or a loss. That rifle that you paid $200 for 20 years ago must be sold for $200 today or you need to get your FFL. Forcing you to get an FFL license for almost every transaction.

Getting an FFL license is not that easy. They just don't hand them out like they do a DL.

Exactly. If you have to get an FFL to sell a gun, and it's not easy to get an FFL, then that's going to kill all private sales. That's thier goal.


http://www.boatloan.com/michael-hunt/

Originally Posted by Nolanco
current federal policy is clearly irrational, scientifically insupportable and ridiculous.
Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: unclebubba] #9038012 04/24/24 09:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
The Dude Abides Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by The Dude Abides
Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by lcbl75771
So how will this work? A person conducting a private sale every now and then is required to do a background check. A person cannot submit a background check unless he holds an FFL license. In Texas, the only requirement other than federal requirements, is you must be registered as a business to obtain an FFL. So how does a private seller perform a background check? confused2

I think that’s the point. They are making it where you can not sell a gun as an individual unless you are selling it for no profit or a loss. That rifle that you paid $200 for 20 years ago must be sold for $200 today or you need to get your FFL. Forcing you to get an FFL license for almost every transaction.

Getting an FFL license is not that easy. They just don't hand them out like they do a DL.

Exactly. If you have to get an FFL to sell a gun, and it's not easy to get an FFL, then that's going to kill all private sales. That's thier goal.


I don’t think so. Their goal is to ensure all gun sales are linked to a background check. Read my post above yours. Both parties can go to an FFL and let them conduct the transfer. That way the background check is done. Of course there will most likely be a transfer fee.

Last edited by The Dude Abides; 04/24/24 09:23 AM.

Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9038110 04/24/24 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 409
L
lcbl75771 Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
L
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 409
So another question then, when purchasing a firearm currently, CC holders are able to bypass the background check. Does that mean if you sell to a CC holder that will still be the case or is that out the window now?

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: lcbl75771] #9038118 04/24/24 03:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
The Dude Abides Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,915
Originally Posted by lcbl75771
So another question then, when purchasing a firearm currently, CC holders are able to bypass the background check. Does that mean if you sell to a CC holder that will still be the case or is that out the window now?

How do you verify if the LTC is still valid? I believe FFL licensees have the ability to verify if the LTC is valid but not 100% sure.


Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Biden To Close ‘Gun-Show Loophole’ And Expand Background Checks [Re: Tbar] #9038141 04/24/24 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
T
TxCookin Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
Quote
I don’t think so. Their goal is to ensure all gun sales are linked to a background check.


Partially correct, Their goal is to be able to log ALL firearm sales/transfers into their massive database.
Which by the way , is a violation of existing Federal laws. Don't be fooled, they are keeping ALL of the information.

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3