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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033553
04/13/24 02:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,972
Wytex
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,972 |
We relocate prairie rattlers all season, should start soon up here. No need to kill them all, we need some rats and mice taken care of.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Catperch]
#9033625
04/13/24 05:57 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319 |
I’ve been wondering what has happened to the snakes in East Texas. 25 years ago I couldn’t drive down the country roads without stopping to catch a snake. For giggles, I thought I would look at the human population in the region and found a map of the whole state. Pretty much all of east Texas has stayed stable or lost population and some areas have a goodly amount of loss. I was thinking an increase in human traffic, errr vehicular traffic associated with more humans, more roads, etc. might be taking a toll on the snakes and while they do get roadkilled, that doesn't appear to be the issue at all. https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...Date=2022-01-01&startDate=1999-01-01So I did some more digging with your time frame in mind. Apparently, the Timber Rattlers were already in decline 25 years ago and researchers were trying to figure out why and there are several suggestions, but this isn't only about Timber Rattlers, but snakes in general. Then I found this that is really interesting. Snake fungal disease (SFD). This news article calls it both a fungus and a virus. It was discovered in Timber Rattlers in 2006. https://www.cbs19.tv/article/tech/s...501-6be783e5-837c-473d-9565-a07f504ffc1cThis info is from the big heads in DC talking about SFD. Apparently, it is considered an emerging pathogen across the US that was first discovered in the US in the 1980s (in Illinois). https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/snake-fungal-diseaseA 3 year study ending in 2021 study found it present in over 15% (27 of 176) of the snakes examined from east Texas, but somehow researchers decided 1:10 has the pathogen. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/ffunb.2023.1064939/fullThe disease itself isn't consider very fatal, but in reading various literature, it sounds like it works as another stress factor, weakening the snake's health such that they end up dying from something else more readily. So it would appear to be a comorbidity factor. Also interesting is that it is thought to be much more widespread than it is, but not a lot of people are looking into it, or not doing geographical wide scale testing. It sounds like most of the studies that find it are studies being conducted after there is a known problem, but first the problem has to be known. Lots of animal deaths go unobserved. It is seems like only when the population noticeably changes that they will look for the cause.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Reloder28]
#9033636
04/13/24 07:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,692
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,692 |
Yep. This was a dangerous place because of the rattlesnakes. The rattlesnakes for hogs trade was a good one for my ranch.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#9033660
04/13/24 08:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,491
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,491 |
I’ve been wondering what has happened to the snakes in East Texas. 25 years ago I couldn’t drive down the country roads without stopping to catch a snake. For giggles, I thought I would look at the human population in the region and found a map of the whole state. Pretty much all of east Texas has stayed stable or lost population and some areas have a goodly amount of loss. I was thinking an increase in human traffic, errr vehicular traffic associated with more humans, more roads, etc. might be taking a toll on the snakes and while they do get roadkilled, that doesn't appear to be the issue at all. https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...Date=2022-01-01&startDate=1999-01-01So I did some more digging with your time frame in mind. Apparently, the Timber Rattlers were already in decline 25 years ago and researchers were trying to figure out why and there are several suggestions, but this isn't only about Timber Rattlers, but snakes in general. Then I found this that is really interesting. Snake fungal disease (SFD). This news article calls it both a fungus and a virus. It was discovered in Timber Rattlers in 2006. https://www.cbs19.tv/article/tech/s...501-6be783e5-837c-473d-9565-a07f504ffc1cThis info is from the big heads in DC talking about SFD. Apparently, it is considered an emerging pathogen across the US that was first discovered in the US in the 1980s (in Illinois). https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/snake-fungal-diseaseA 3 year study ending in 2021 study found it present in over 15% (27 of 176) of the snakes examined from east Texas, but somehow researchers decided 1:10 has the pathogen. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/ffunb.2023.1064939/fullThe disease itself isn't consider very fatal, but in reading various literature, it sounds like it works as another stress factor, weakening the snake's health such that they end up dying from something else more readily. So it would appear to be a comorbidity factor. Also interesting is that it is thought to be much more widespread than it is, but not a lot of people are looking into it, or not doing geographical wide scale testing. It sounds like most of the studies that find it are studies being conducted after there is a known problem, but first the problem has to be known. Lots of animal deaths go unobserved. It is seems like only when the population noticeably changes that they will look for the cause. I haven't noticed any decline of snakes in my area of East Texas (Deep East Texas) but I represent a small sample. In my area only the Timber Rattler and Pygmy Rattler exist. Neither in great numbers and VERY much localized in certain areas/habitats. Copperheads are everywhere and the most common venomous snake by far. Cottonmouth next in line (with good habitat). All of the common non-venomous snakes seem to have steady populations in the 40 years I've been here. Feral hog populations have exploded over the years.....but I can't tell that they have any effect on the snake population (on my property). Other wildlife.....YES, but not snakes.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033679
04/13/24 08:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,692
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,692 |
It’s not a new concept. In the 1930’s, feral hogs were put on Santa Catalina Island to help control the island’s rattlesnake populations.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033713
04/13/24 10:03 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319 |
Well, they did bring in pigs to help the Catalina Island rattlesnake issue (and/or for sport hunting). They also brought in goats and bison for various reasons that were also a threat to the snakes. The experiment was a failure. After about 60 years and various studies conducted, efforts reversed to get rid of the hogs and starting in 1990. Goats and bison were apparently shortlisted as well. In the end, the rattlesnakes remained, but the pigs, goats, and bison were now the ones humans wanted off the island. https://www.islapedia.com/index.php?title=Pigs:_Santa_Catalina_Island The above reference also has a news clip from the 1891 Avalon (town on the island) newspaper talking about the hogs and other livestock breaking through the fence that protected the town from pasturage of the animals (sort of sounds like Jamestown building a stockade and New York building a wall, to keep out feral hogs). One of the really interesting aspects of this experiment is that contrary to mainland lore of rattlesnakes not rattling out of fear of being eaten by a pig that hears it, the island rattlesnakes rattled more, louder, are more prone to striking and tend to inject more venom. This response isn't just to the pigs, but also to the other threats like deer, goats, bison, etc. The rattlesnakes turned on the aggression and have survived just fine. https://phys.org/news/2024-04-rattlesnakes-california-santa-catalina-island.htmlThis article mentions hogs on the island from at least the 1800s and possibly as early as the 1500s. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1381283
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033727
04/13/24 10:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,692
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,692 |
The only reason the predation has not been quantified yet is because neither are in short supply state wide. I do know that this was a place inundated with rattlesnakes and now they are few and far between. Due to the nature of where I’m at and the protection from any development, the only thing that has changed is an endless supply of feral hogs. They certainly don’t care about getting bit by one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ccOC7mN8Sw&pp=ygUVaG9nIGVhdHMgcmF0dGxlc25ha2Ug[/video]
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033859
04/14/24 06:08 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,734
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,734 |
I don't know. We have rattlesnakes and plenty of pigs. Just killed a copperhead tonight in camp in Montague. If I don't go looking for them, I normally don't see them. We have guy that hunts them too and will catch 50+ a year.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033877
04/14/24 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,575
Dave Davidson
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,575 |
Duck man, that’s hard to understand. Neither I or my neighbors South of Bowie have seen a snake of any kind in years.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033930
04/14/24 02:16 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319 |
Duck man, that’s hard to understand. Neither I or my neighbors South of Bowie have seen a snake of any kind in years. That is odd. Here is a pic I took on March 31. This is my first copperhead of the year. It was on FM 677 between Forestburg and St Jo.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9033982
04/14/24 04:55 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,211
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,211 |
My old lease we were covered in hogs and snakes.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#9034009
04/14/24 05:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,491
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,491 |
Duck man, that’s hard to understand. Neither I or my neighbors South of Bowie have seen a snake of any kind in years. That is odd. Here is a pic I took on March 31. This is my first copperhead of the year. It was on FM 677 between Forestburg and St Jo. ^^^^And a 'Broadband' at that. We have few where I live.....but mostly the 'Southern'. Beautiful coloring on yours. The most recent 'Southern' on my place was exceptionally drab colored. Most are very Tan and Copper colored.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9034019
04/14/24 06:30 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,319 |
Well, that is interesting. Most of the ones I see up here would be broadbands. I have never seen the drab version that I can recall.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9034177
04/15/24 01:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,507
BDB
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,507 |
I killed my first copperhead last night. Wife saw it while we were lettings dogs piss before bed. This will be our 4th spring where were at now, between Terrell/Kaufman...I killed 26 copperheads each of the first two years, but noticed the age structure dropped in year 2. last year I killed 13 and again age dropped. Last night's snake was a small one. We have far too many woods around us, and our landscaping is a snake's paradise. We will never get rid of them but I'm hoping to have the kills down to 5-10 a year 1 dog bitten in 3 years, been lucky
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9034203
04/15/24 02:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,718
bp3
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,718 |
I relocate rattle snakes in 2-3 pieces, there are other snakes to handle rodents. Have 3 friends that were bitten by buzz snakes and it isn't a fun ordeal and one nearly lost some fingers.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#9034238
04/15/24 11:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 270
David7912
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 270 |
Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind
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Re: Snakes
[Re: David7912]
#9034392
04/15/24 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,212
pertnear
"Demolition Man"
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"Demolition Man"
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,212 |
Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind That's a "red and yellow, kill a fellow"
"I haven't shot a 1,000 deer, but I've sat around a 1,000 Texas camp fires. I'm a happy man." - pertnear
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Re: Snakes
[Re: pertnear]
#9034546
04/15/24 11:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 16,843
Jimbo1
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 16,843 |
Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind That's a "red and yellow, kill a fellow"Oh boy, that's not a good sight!
FKH - Lets Go Kamelhoe BBB - Bring Back Better Awake - Not Woke!
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Re: Snakes
[Re: David7912]
#9034601
04/16/24 01:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,491
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,491 |
Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind I've only seen one Coral Snake in my time in East Texas (also in Nac County). Plenty of them in Central Texas where I grew up. Pretty snakes.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Snakes
[Re: flintknapper]
#9035714
04/18/24 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,590
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,590 |
Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind I've only seen one Coral Snake in my time in East Texas (also in Nac County). Plenty of them in Central Texas where I grew up. Pretty snakes. Grew up in east Texas and lived in Nac for about five years, and have never seen one in the wild.
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Re: Snakes
[Re: kry226]
#9035777
04/18/24 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 66,039
SnakeWrangler
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 66,039 |
Got surprised by this one yesterday he was under the blind I've only seen one Coral Snake in my time in East Texas (also in Nac County). Plenty of them in Central Texas where I grew up. Pretty snakes. Grew up in east Texas and lived in Nac for about five years, and have never seen one in the wild. I’ve never seen one in the wild either but would like to. Beautiful snakes.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Snakes
[Re: flintknapper]
#9035849
04/19/24 12:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 612
Catperch
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 612 |
Duck man, that’s hard to understand. Neither I or my neighbors South of Bowie have seen a snake of any kind in years. That is odd. Here is a pic I took on March 31. This is my first copperhead of the year. It was on FM 677 between Forestburg and St Jo. ^^^^And a 'Broadband' at that. We have few where I live.....but mostly the 'Southern'. Beautiful coloring on yours. The most recent 'Southern' on my place was exceptionally drab colored. Most are very Tan and Copper colored. I love copperheads. They are beautiful snakes. Always gets a pass if I see one.
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