So it's a given he did it without roids or T therapy. Proof, it can be done naturally.

This is a great practice. On the push ups have you considered upping the rep's? 25 is prolly pretty easy for you.

Google Wes Watson.

YUP

I am not here to say you can’t get strong and lean without drugs. I know for a 100% fact you can get very very strong without drugs.

But the truth is you can have whatever kind of drugs you want in prison.

Steroids are not magic. They help you get bigger and stronger and leaner, faster. They help you heal and recover faster. But they are not going to increase your natural limits by much. Like 20 percent maybe.

Except for older people. When you endocrine system starts to decline, drugs like testosterone are gonna help you a lot more than a young healthy guy.

Muscle built on drugs will eventually be lost over time. You might think you have made permanent gains because you are doing cycles and only lose a little in between cycles… give it 5 years drug-free. You might be lucky to keep muscles gained on steroids and etc for a few months drug-free.

A good friend of mine actually lost about ten pounds on a cycle of testosterone. He is/was a genetic freak, sets of 6 on deadlift with 495 at a body weight of 170. I guess he did not have the appetite to keep up with the boost in his metabolism.

Another buddy of mine maxed out around 190 on tren and dbol, other heavy anabolics and would lose 10-15 pounds every time we had to miss a little sleep.

Of course we all know a couple of guys that are natural freaks that can not gain fat.

The point of explaining all this, is to say that it is kind of dumb to dedicate your life to achieving optimum physical performance. Or to even worry about how much you can bench. Jiu jitsu is a superpower and the gun levels the playing field for us all.

Much better to strive for a high level of stamina, and mental and physical toughness. You should be able to handle your own bodyweight and climb things, etc. Other than that learn to fight, and carry a weapon and learn to use it.

Some of you guys are very impressive. Keep after it as long as your body will allow it, because there will come a time when you can’t do what you used to do easily. Stuff wears out. I guess I was about 70, and hitting the tennis ball hard with one of the high school kids, when my right biceps went wonky. Doc said I broke my main biceps tendon, and I now had the “Popeye Deformity”. He said it was Ok and that the secondary tendon never breaks. Well wahoo for that, so I asked what had happened, and he said “ya wore it out”. Years of weight lifting, pushups, pull-ups, and tennis took its toll.

I don’t know what your long term plans are for your strength routines, but eventually you will need to quit the big weights and go for lighter weights and higher reps in prep for aging. I did that and it worked out pretty well for a long time.

I should have said, it *would be* pointless to dedicate your life to achieve optimum physical performance, unless you are a gifted athlete. In that case, take advantage of your gifts and see where it may take you in life.

The rest of is normal folk are better off to strive for mental and physical stamina and toughness.

Good Luck to you.

We sound like we lived similar child/teen years. I'm going to be 40 next month and I have so many aches and pains coming out of the woodwork. Although mine are more joint issues not broken bone issues. I swear you could look at my left ankle wrong and it would twist. When I squat down and then back up my left knee sounds like a rice crispies. SNAP CRACKLE POP...

Thank you but my time has passed. From before my adolescence up through about age 24, peak human performance was my top priority. By then i figured out I was striving for something impossible for me to achieve, that nearly destroyed my life. But about a 160 pound pot bellied blue belt in jiu jitsu completed dominated me physically, and changed the trajectory of my life.

To be honest i am getting old, fat, and cynical and should make fitness a priority. We should all make it *a* priority. But never top priority.

I did this in 2008. When I was fully released my left arm and most of the rest of me looked like a bony coat hanger.

I started with curling one of those padded pink 3 lb dumb bells my ex wife never used.

I have done a few stupid things, i am fairly sure i have fractured bones in both ankles. One time i crushed my tibia and ran over two miles with strawberry jam coming out of my shin, when they xrayed it they said “well when did you break your ankle?” Lol. I am sure they are both trashed.

Herniated disks? Almost all of them, more than once. Airborne all the way lol

Ouch! those look painful. I've actually never broken a bone before. I've had a cracked orbital socket and busted sinus cavity from being hit with brassknucks but, I've never actually broken a bone before.

That cracked orbital is no picnic. I hope that guy got felony assault for that, he deserves to be thrown under the jail. Brass nuckles are deadly.

Of all the injuries I have suffered in my life, broken bones, even 2nd and 3rd degree burns to my penis and groin, the most unbearable pain I have ever endured was working through an abscessed tooth, lol.

Abscessed tooth pain can be pretty darn bad.

I never pressed charges on him. It's a very long story and he was actually one of my buddies. I caught him out later on and he ran from me into a movie theater. He then fled and lived in Lubbock for a while. I saw him out one night (long time later) and he bought me a beer and we buried the hatched so to speak. I really don't think he was all there. A couple months later he hung himself at his mom's work so that she'd find him when she opened up her business the next morning.

And yea, so far the worst pain I've ever had was getting my tonsils taken out a year or so back. Absolutely trumps anything I've ever had to go through.

That was complete elbow dislocation. Pain and recovery was worse than any of the broken bone injuries I had. Zero use for a while. I did get to ride in a helicopter for the first time.

I bring up the injury because it totally changed my outlook on fitness in general. I did get back into lifting as a way to rehab my arm, but got so out of shape over all that I started running on an elyptical. I'd go uphill with resistance and finally built up to going flat out for 45 minutes. The years following this injury and the new type of work out got me in really good over all shape. I ran a Cave Man Crawl 2012.

How TF does one suffer 2nd and 3rd degree burns to the penis and groin?

Actually, I take that back. I do not want to know.

It’s a story that needs to be told in person. I will tell you it was *not* a combat injury and thank God. And everything healed nicely lol

How hot was the ‘hot mama’?

Seriously though, I really do think that many, if not most, of the athletic injuries we get or have is because we try to push past the pain. I can tell you that was my problem on several injuries. Tennis, for instance. When I was playing at a pretty high level and getting a little older but still in great shape, getting hurt or dialing down my level of competition just wasn’t an acceptable part of my plan. I had worked so hard to be at that level, I just couldn’t bear the thought of losing my edge. I took a lot of pain pills back then, while I was hurting myself worse. And it was that way with all the guys and gals on a team I was on. One night we were to play for a playoff spot, when my right elbow and shoulder just gave out, with a crunchy noise. I couldn’t play at all, and my team members, friends all, treated me like a quitter for causing the team to lose. If you are that serious about your athletics, you are too serious. If it hurts, let yourself heal.

I have no doubt ignoring pain from over use and strains/sprains would be the leading cause of muscle and tendon injuries, things tear more easily when they are weakened.

A lot of the time it’s just going too far, too hard, too long, too little rest. My ankles are so tore up from rolling them purely out of fatigue and exhaustion, i don’t think there is enough tension left in the ligaments and tendons to tear them. I roll them all the time now and never sprain or strain them. But they are just not super stable. Getting fat doesn’t help but they were already completely screwed.

I have put in a lot of miles carrying a lot of weight, if i told ya’ll the whole story no one would believe it.

As soon as you start talking about running two miles on a crushed tibia everybody rolls their eyes, and assumes you are just a compulsive liar. You just had to be there. That’s life.

63 years old. Still the same lanky 6’1” 195 pound 32” waist I was at 18. No PEDs of any kind ever. I have a set of free weights on the back porch. I lift but lift light. One body part a day and only work each body part once a week with six days for it to recover and try to eat decent. I work on the bleachers at the local football stadium to keep my legs and wind. After reading this thread I went out on the back porch to see. I put 235 on the bar and punched it five times. It felt heavy. Heaviest anything I’ve lifted in years. I have no clue nor am I concerned what my max is. Most important to me is I still feel pretty good and can still get out and enjoy the things I like to do without paying for it the next day. Use it or lose it.

This is how we should strive to be. Well done

Clear winner right here.

5’6.195. Always very strong,powerful legs. Both daughters were state champions in powerlifting,four surgeries later and doc has limited me to no more than 50lbs max fortunately the same weight as a bag of corn 😄