Replace the venerable 308? Blaspheme!

It already has.

More people need to limit shots to within 300 yards than going beyond that distance. The 308 ain't going nowhere and especialy not from the the AR platforms.

Hunters want down range energy and a large wound channel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is way behind the .308 on these important factors. Replace .308, never happen.

Yeah, the 6.5 Creedmoor delivers more energy past 300 yards than the .308 Win. And it wind drifts less.

At least when comparing my hottest loads in .260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, 7mm-08 A.I. and .308 Win.

7mm-08 beats all of them to 1000 yards

7mm-08 A.I. is the king of the hill, in energy delivery, keeping a .473" bolt face and short action.





The .308 Win will never die. And every American should own at least one.

Relatively speaking, no one but you shoots your hottest loads. My statement is based on the factory ammo I shoot.

I never said the 6.5 creedmoor is a better hunting cartridge. Like you said, 7mm-08 is a bad little mother effer and 7-08 AI is mightier than them all. But where do i get the rifles and ammo? Might be one factory load for it on the store shelf.

There for a while the only rifles or ammo i could find locally were 350 legend. I don’t live in a straight wall cartridge state.

Marketing, and Supply and demand drives sales, but sometimes only supply drives sales!

Water down all of them equally, as most factory ammo is, and the numbers still stand.

Bullet diameter
Bullet Weight
Ballistic Coefficient of said Bullet
Muzzle velocity <<<Drop that number on all of them equally, and there you have it.

Those are the parameters needed to calculate ballistics.

Alright, talk only about ammo on the shelves. The 6.5 Creedmoor still hits harder at distance than the .308 Win. And my .308 Win ammo is far and away from factory offerings.

See post above about figuring out external ballistics.

I If a cartridge was a P.O.S. we'd all hear about it. Supply be damned.

There's a reason the DEMAND stays high. And it has since 2007. What year is it?

@JG: What Factory 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady Ammo has more energy than Factory Hornady, Superformance, 165 gr in .308 at 300, 400 and 500 yards?

Like I said, your "hottest loads" are not part of this discussion. But then, a good salesman like yourself never misses an opportunity to advertise. Hats off on your own marketing, well done

Primarily directed at J.G. I can’t quote all that prior conversation.

I am not saying 6.5 creedmoor is a bad cartridge. And i agree with you a poor performer would not last. They supported the 350 legend very strongly but it still flopped, at least locally to me.

I am not gonna sit there and call it gaymoor or insult the cartridge in other ways any more. It’s here to stay.

But the secret to the commercial success of 6.5 creedmoor is marketing and support by the industry.

I am not gonna try to argue with you about performance, you’re the expert.

All I am saying is it’s adequate for hunting to any reasonable range and has better marketing and support than any cartridge in my lifetime.

Now we are seeing a lot of great new cartridges trying to cash in on the name. No one has labeled their cartridge “6mm TC” or “.22 TC” that i have heard of. None that anybody has anticipated as eagerly as the creedmoores.

I will probably get one for myself before long.

Take their "claimed" velocities, plug in their ballistic coefficients into a reputable ballistic calculator, and see what you see. (Their velocities are always inflated. I've seen as much as 100 fps MV)

I'm not going to spoon feed it to you, troll.

Performance; the bullet has been doing a good job for over 100 years. So has the size below it (6mm) so has the one above it (7mm).

Marketing, yes. But that support you mentioned is key. 10 years prior, in 1997, Remington could have hit this home run with the .260 Remington, but they didn't support it. Both make identical ballistics. I've confirmed both out to 1400 yards. IDENTICAL! But, the .260 Rem fell into the "had to be hand loaded" to hang. Consumers have spoken, simple as that. Go into any gun shop in America and look at the amount of rifles you'll find in .260 Rem against 6.5 Creedmoor. I know what you will find.

As I've said many times here before. The damn thing works. There's no need in hating on it.

And it's been wildcatted as much as the .308 Win has been.

6mm
Then .224"
Then .257"
Then .338

(7mm never gained ground, but I want to have a reamer made and give it a try)

Many of those wild cats, have been adopted by SAAMI, and are here to stay. Therefore the original is not going anywhere. Everyone can just deal with it.

Marketing matters. Both of my brothers, neither of whom hunt these days, were talked into having 6.5 CM rifles. I doubt they ever heard mention of a 260, unless they heard me talk about it. They don’t have a clue about MV, BC, or ballistics in general.

How long has the 7-08 been around? i had a cousin that had one, and liked it, and that had to be in the 1980s, I think. I’d call him, but he’s dead.

It is because we are a bunch of luddites. If they named it the “6.5 short action Swede” or “6.5 Short Mauser” or a similar but better sounding name (forgive me!) then we would have probably been more interested, but the masses probably would not.

But we all imagine a bunch of manbun-wearing liberal millenials touting the creedmoor as the baddest cartridge, ballistically superior to all other cartridges, they think it is the optimal thousand yard cartridge, etc. People that have no idea just how freaking awesome a cartridge can actually be. And it’s not too far from the truth considering most twenty somethings that did not grow up with guns, that just bought their first high-powered rifle, they probably got a 6.5 creedmoor.

But it IS good, and it CAN stand on it’s own merit. But then, there is the 7mm-08 AI with no support.

What would you think of a 7mm creedmoor? J.G. You have the experience I think you should wildcat it before somebody else does.

Edit- i bet somebody has! Maybe 7mm Creedmoor AI. Seriously, what might you gain?

Know who got SAAMI acceptance for the 7mm-08?

Remington

And then didn't support it. Same as the .260 Remington.

Do you see a pattern here?

Invent a new cartridge and then abandon it. That's what they did. Hornady has done the opposite. And thus, the success of the Creedmoors.

The answer to all those questions is the same answer I have to myself every week. I don't know, but I will test it on the ranges and find out.

I love it! Hypothesis + experiment, = knowledge.

Today was let's see what a Bergara 6.5 PRC could do. And I found out.

You commented on my post and stated that I was wrong, who's the troll? You're the same salesman that told me once before that the factory ammo I used had inflated velocities. Wrong again, I chrono'd it. It was spot on and most rounds within 3 fps. Then you stated something had to be wrong with my equipment because no way factory ammo was that good. Another example? Find the thread, "Guess the Velocity". I dont' take you serious when you start bashing factory ammo, it's how your little side gig makes a few $'s. You shouldn't call people names, especially when you're the one doing the trolling. It makes you look smaller that you actually are.

I think the announced date was in 1980 but guns and ammo for the 7mm-08 started showing up on the shelves of gun stores in 1982.

Still have the Remington 788 in 7mm-08 I bought in 1982. Bought it at Walmart and had to drive 30 miles to the next town for the one box of ammo they had at the gun store there to shoot it. Bought dies, bullets and powder at the same time for it, so I could have some. Remington when it was introduced sold green and Yellow boxes marked CORE-LOKT 140 gr bullets. Those were crap had one just do a crater wound on a whitetails shoulder glad the second shot only hit rib on the way in. John Sundry wrote later that Remington did not have their own bullets ready for the first runs of ammo and used a bullet from Hornady in it. As he said in that article load it with a 140gr partition, shoot a deer in the boiler room and its will to live will go out the other side. When introduced it came out in the M700 Varmint and 788. Ruger also made M77s that year and I think Browning in the BLR.

https://dallasreloads.com/product/6-5-speedmoor-143-grain-eld-x/

Its Over the counter ammo and there is probably a dozen guys on this forum that run it. You pick 500 yards and know exactly why you picked a shorter range

this whole thread is stupid. From wound channel myths to bleed out ideologies, to caliber metrics.

Hornady created and supported a very inherently accurate caliber thats made gun smiths and ammo makers look really good. Not to many calibers have ever had the accuracy consistency from box to box that Hornady produced with the 6.5 CM.

You've got a small sample. I see factory ammo velocities on a weekly basis.

My "little side gig" as you'd like to call it, has been so busy, I'm running out of time to go to the fire station anymore. I'm pretty close to having to retire from that, and only focus on rifles, ammo, and rifle range.

That's cool, you don't understand it. You just want to troll.

Is the 6.5 just as effective in a high fence enclosure?

You trolled me, then called me a troll for asking you to back up your claim. What a joke you are. You're hoping people don't read the entire thread, only the last few posts.

As for sample size, your a sales guy promoting your product by bashing a competitor that will never hear of you. Therefore, you're not objective and I don't take your claim that factory ammo is as bad as you say it is seriously. If my factory ammo was as bad as you would like to convince your customers that it is, no way Hornady would be the great company they are. My small sample actually speaks to the accuracy of their stated velocity. No way one hunter get's lucky 8 years running on any lot, any time of the year. Relative to the market, your sample size isn't a drop of water.

https://texashuntingforum.com/forum...agneto-speed-v-3-with-extras#Post9007975

hard to argue ammo ballistics with out a chronograph

Good news is there are +- 5 for sale in classifieds. Results can be pretty eye opening.

Regardless 308 is +-30% more recoil then 6.5 CM