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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8979593
12/29/23 01:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,491
Simple Searcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,491 |
I tried some snares about 3 years ago and snared more deer and coons than I did coyotes. Didn’t mind catching the coons , but counterproductive catching the deer. I have snared several hundred coons, bobcats, foxes, skunks, possums, armadillos, porcupines, and coyotes. Never one single deer.
![[Linked Image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50896906186_e2d740ec35_m.jpg) "Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: LeftHandStan]
#8979725
12/29/23 05:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 802
BbarVRanch
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 802 |
Everything in that link is geared toward protecting all wildlife. Predators included. Sorry, as an ex govt hunter, I ain't buying it. I have seen too much, and learned too much to buy into this stuff. Reality of wildlife management seldom meets expectations of political agenda. Keep trying though. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif)
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: LeftHandStan]
#8979727
12/29/23 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,783
Espy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,783 |
Anyone that hunts with me knows if you have a shot at a coyote you better take it. Shooting the occasional coyote does nothing to control coyote numbers. Actually, it does the opposite. And, it tends to screw up deer hunts. well, don't shoot the occasional one shoot all of them. that's how you decrease the population. A small ranch by my house is seeing a really low fawn population. I will start predator control as soon as deer season is over. Take out 20-30 coyotes in a year and watch how the fawn population increases.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: BbarVRanch]
#8979754
12/29/23 06:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72
LeftHandStan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72 |
Everything in that link is geared toward protecting all wildlife. Predators included. Sorry, as an ex govt hunter, I ain't buying it. I have seen too much, and learned too much to buy into this stuff. Reality of wildlife management seldom meets expectations of political agenda. Keep trying though. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif) You do you man. I'll trust the research of Scott Henke at CKWRI and Bob Zaiglan.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: Espy]
#8979755
12/29/23 06:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72
LeftHandStan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72 |
Anyone that hunts with me knows if you have a shot at a coyote you better take it. Shooting the occasional coyote does nothing to control coyote numbers. Actually, it does the opposite. And, it tends to screw up deer hunts. well, don't shoot the occasional one shoot all of them. that's how you decrease the population. A small ranch by my house is seeing a really low fawn population. I will start predator control as soon as deer season is over. Take out 20-30 coyotes in a year and watch how the fawn population increases. It's laughable that you think you "shoot all of them". Google "coyote compensatory reproduction" and more importantly "compensatory immigration". The science is quite clear on the matter and has been for decades.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8979778
12/29/23 08:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,231
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,231 |
Looks like a good night to go kill some coyotes. Moon should be just about right for it.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8979842
12/29/23 11:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,591
garyrapp55
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,591 |
Looks like a good night to go kill some coyotes. Moon should be just about right for it. Finally, some science even I can understand
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8979911
12/30/23 03:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 376
Kodyjoe2016
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 376 |
Rather shoot a coyote than a deer any day.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: garyrapp55]
#8979918
12/30/23 03:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,231
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,231 |
Looks like a good night to go kill some coyotes. Moon should be just about right for it. Finally, some science even I can understand Yeah, you don’t need a bunch of studies when you’re out here with them every day.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8979941
12/30/23 04:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72
LeftHandStan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72 |
Flat earthers it seems. Galileo was about 400+ years prior.
Y'all keep at it lads. Happy hunting.
Last edited by LeftHandStan; 12/30/23 04:54 AM.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: Simple Searcher]
#8979945
12/30/23 07:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,710
rickym
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,710 |
I tried some snares about 3 years ago and snared more deer and coons than I did coyotes. Didn’t mind catching the coons , but counterproductive catching the deer. I have snared several hundred coons, bobcats, foxes, skunks, possums, armadillos, porcupines, and coyotes. Never one single deer. Wrong spots, and setting to high, or to big of a loop if your getting deer.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8979957
12/30/23 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,423
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,423 |
Seem to be lots of coyotes on my place this year, despite having an awesome fawn recruitment. And since the freeze, I haven't seen 10 hogs. Still, I've killed two yotes in as many days and will continue to do so. My place has a rule that hogs and yotes are shot on sight, even during a deer hunt.
Had a very aspirational but young 8-point at the feeder last night when a very mature (pretty coat too) yote came in from the opposite direction. Naturally, I shot the yote and the buck just stood there for about 5 minutes and then went back to gobbling up corn. Kill the yotes, your deer will thank you.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: LeftHandStan]
#8979967
12/30/23 01:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 16,590
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 16,590 |
Flat earthers it seems. Galileo was about 400+ years prior.
Y'all keep at it lads. Happy hunting. Anyone that hunts with me knows if you have a shot at a coyote you better take it. Shooting the occasional coyote does nothing to control coyote numbers. Actually, it does the opposite. And, it tends to screw up deer hunts. well, don't shoot the occasional one shoot all of them. that's how you decrease the population. A small ranch by my house is seeing a really low fawn population. I will start predator control as soon as deer season is over. Take out 20-30 coyotes in a year and watch how the fawn population increases. It's laughable that you think you "shoot all of them". Google "coyote compensatory reproduction" and more importantly "compensatory immigration". The science is quite clear on the matter and has been for decades. it’s laughable that you believe some dog sits on a hill and when other dogs don’t bark back it’s ovaries magically crank out more eggs.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8979987
12/30/23 02:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 16,000
Tbar
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 16,000 |
All studies indicated that coyote control caused an immigration of coyotes into the removal areas. Coyote population densities returned to pre-removal levels typically within three months after removal efforts ceased.”
Henke wrote that Texas studies which involved short-term coyote removal programs did not note differences in rodent and lagomorph populations. However, those studies which consistently removed coyotes throughout the year began to realize population-level changes after a minimum of nine months of coyote removal
That is why you don't stop hunting them. It is a year-round effort. We heli-hunt 3-4 times a year and over bait and call and target of opportunities year around.
Make America Great Again
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: LeftHandStan]
#8979988
12/30/23 02:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,954
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,954 |
Everything in that link is geared toward protecting all wildlife. Predators included. Sorry, as an ex govt hunter, I ain't buying it. I have seen too much, and learned too much to buy into this stuff. Reality of wildlife management seldom meets expectations of political agenda. Keep trying though. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif) You do you man. I'll trust the research of Scott Henke at CKWRI and Bob Zaiglan. You know, it is alright to read things and call ![bs bs](/forum/images/graemlins/default/bs.gif) on them. You know, you are lied to every day by someone.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.precisionriflehunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/garvey.jpg) 800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: rickym]
#8979989
12/30/23 02:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,954
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,954 |
I tried some snares about 3 years ago and snared more deer and coons than I did coyotes. Didn’t mind catching the coons , but counterproductive catching the deer. I have snared several hundred coons, bobcats, foxes, skunks, possums, armadillos, porcupines, and coyotes. Never one single deer. Wrong spots, and setting to high, or to big of a loop if your getting deer. What Ricky said.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.precisionriflehunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/garvey.jpg) 800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: LeftHandStan]
#8980014
12/30/23 03:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,659
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,659 |
Flat earthers it seems. Galileo was about 400+ years prior.
Y'all keep at it lads. Happy hunting. Go find a coyote in Val Verde County. The sheep ranchers down there are relentless in their efforts to eradicate them. It works. That country, with all the game and sheep, should be full of coyotes. It’s not. I hunted down there for several years and never saw one, a track, or even heard one.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8980029
12/30/23 03:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 502
MWTX270
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 502 |
Got another 1 this morning. Makes 7 this month just while deer hunting. Big old dog ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2023/12/full-57878-409607-img_0617.jpeg)
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8980069
12/30/23 05:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,491
Simple Searcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,491 |
Awesome, if snares aren't working, the rifle will ![up up](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cup.gif)
![[Linked Image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50896906186_e2d740ec35_m.jpg) "Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8980080
12/30/23 06:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,464
LonestarCobra
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,464 |
I will keep doing my part and shoot all the yotes I see.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: Sneaky]
#8980145
12/30/23 10:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,231
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,231 |
Flat earthers it seems. Galileo was about 400+ years prior.
Y'all keep at it lads. Happy hunting. Go find a coyote in Val Verde County. The sheep ranchers down there are relentless in their efforts to eradicate them. It works. That country, with all the game and sheep, should be full of coyotes. It’s not. I hunted down there for several years and never saw one, a track, or even heard one. Yeah, I’ll take actual observation and experience over an internet education all day.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: MWTX270]
#8980182
12/30/23 11:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 930
Double AC
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 930 |
I like to hunt and shoot coyotes because I like to hunt and shoot coyotes. I am not interested in running a full time trapping program nor do I see the need on my ranch. Their populations, as well as any predator or prey in natural settings, are directly dependent on the amount of forage available to them. Short term forage surplus or deficit in either predator or prey will affect the other end of that relationship. The years I have plenty of forage are the years I have plenty of deer and will thus have plenty of coyotes. The opposite is also true.
Will aggressively culling coyotes alleviate short term pressure on deer? Yes. Will that in turn put more pressure on the deer's forage base, especially in drought years? Yes. Does a limited natural forage base negatively impact deer numbers and deer health? Yes.
My goal is to maintain a stable forage base to support a carrying capacity in line with that forage and to use supplemental feed to fill gaps in that forage base. Filling those gaps allows me to be slightly more selective in terms of which deer make up the herd. However, the more deer I have over carrying capacity, the more forage gaps there are to fill, the more $$$ I have to spend on supplemental feed, and the more time I have to spend bringing deer #s back in line. For that goal, coyotes, lions, or any other predator operate in the same role as I do which is to eliminate excess mouths on the landscape. They don't have the same discretion as I do which entails some risk when it comes to the bucks I am trying to get to the next age class. But those bucks could also get hit by cars, shot by other hunters, or die a million other ways. If I removed every coyote to ever set foot on the ranch, I would have to spend just as much time shooting additional excess deer on the landscape. If I was running a commercial operation and every inch of antler put more dollars in my pocket, maybe that would be worth it. But that added expense and time isn't justified at the moment.
Does that mean I am passing on coyotes when they come by? Absolutely not, I like to hunt and shoot coyotes.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: Sneaky]
#8980240
12/31/23 03:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72
LeftHandStan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72 |
Flat earthers it seems. Galileo was about 400+ years prior.
Y'all keep at it lads. Happy hunting. Go find a coyote in Val Verde County. The sheep ranchers down there are relentless in their efforts to eradicate them. It works. That country, with all the game and sheep, should be full of coyotes. It’s not. I hunted down there for several years and never saw one, a track, or even heard one. Those efforts of varmint control are on another planet compared to the typical TX coyote hunter/caller/spotlighter/incidental shooter. Not even close. Their lives literally depend(ed) on it. Besides, are "efforts to eradicate them" - coyotes - of ANY benefit to white-tailed deer in areas that are overpopulated? With 4k of neighboring Hill Country acreage *unhunted* (my situation), would the magic killing of every or any coyote do me or the WT deer population any good? F no. What would limit their population? Remember, this acreage is unhunted.
Last edited by LeftHandStan; 12/31/23 03:23 AM. Reason: tidying up a quote.
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Re: Coyotes
[Re: Double AC]
#8980242
12/31/23 03:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72
LeftHandStan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 72 |
I like to hunt and shoot coyotes because I like to hunt and shoot coyotes. I am not interested in running a full time trapping program nor do I see the need on my ranch. Their populations, as well as any predator or prey in natural settings, are directly dependent on the amount of forage available to them. Short term forage surplus or deficit in either predator or prey will affect the other end of that relationship. The years I have plenty of forage are the years I have plenty of deer and will thus have plenty of coyotes. The opposite is also true.
Will aggressively culling coyotes alleviate short term pressure on deer? Yes. Will that in turn put more pressure on the deer's forage base, especially in drought years? Yes. Does a limited natural forage base negatively impact deer numbers and deer health? Yes.
My goal is to maintain a stable forage base to support a carrying capacity in line with that forage and to use supplemental feed to fill gaps in that forage base. Filling those gaps allows me to be slightly more selective in terms of which deer make up the herd. However, the more deer I have over carrying capacity, the more forage gaps there are to fill, the more $$$ I have to spend on supplemental feed, and the more time I have to spend bringing deer #s back in line. For that goal, coyotes, lions, or any other predator operate in the same role as I do which is to eliminate excess mouths on the landscape. They don't have the same discretion as I do which entails some risk when it comes to the bucks I am trying to get to the next age class. But those bucks could also get hit by cars, shot by other hunters, or die a million other ways. If I removed every coyote to ever set foot on the ranch, I would have to spend just as much time shooting additional excess deer on the landscape. If I was running a commercial operation and every inch of antler put more dollars in my pocket, maybe that would be worth it. But that added expense and time isn't justified at the moment.
Does that mean I am passing on coyotes when they come by? Absolutely not, I like to hunt and shoot coyotes. This is an insanely reasonable response. Short term gain? Yeah, a bit sure. Love to hunt coyotes? Heck yeah, man get in there. It's fun as hell. Does carrying capacity matter? You betcha. Does the recreational killing of coyotes really matter long term (not explicitly stated but implied)? Not really.
Last edited by LeftHandStan; 12/31/23 03:21 AM. Reason: spelling
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