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223, 243, 270, 30.06 #8977211 12/23/23 07:42 PM
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You’ve heard it before and we all have our opinion. So let’s do it once again.
We have 12 year old twin granddaughters who want to hunt. Warms my heart. They are very small framed girls so I have suggested with some holdback to get them 243,s. I personally do not think they would do well with anything of a heavier caliber although I started out at 7 with a 30.06. The other grandpa thinks they need to deer hunt with a 223 because the 243 is too big in his opinion. I’m like, 223 for deer? Are you kidding me. I’m not big on shooting deer with a 243, much less a 223. And the truth be known, some states it’s illegal to shoot deer with a 223.

So blast away. I will enjoy the comments. 😊

And before we get started…don’t say it’s all about shot placement. Isn’t it always?



Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977218 12/23/23 08:16 PM
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IMO, .223 is a little light for deer. Yes, I know it will work, and I personally have used it. I like a bigger bullet. For kids and recoil sensative wives, nothing beats a 300blk. Anyone that disagrees is wrong. bolt

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977220 12/23/23 08:19 PM
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7mm-08. Not much recoil and it will untrack any deer that lives.


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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977222 12/23/23 08:22 PM
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6.5 Grendel

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977224 12/23/23 08:25 PM
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.223 is deadly. .243 in a fairly hefty gun is comparable in recoil to a .223. Same cartridge in a light plastic rifle can rattle your teeth harder than a .30/06 in a wood stock. My wife handles 20 gauge slugs easier than the .243 ruger American. First time she shot it she said ouch! And never shot it again.

So don’t just assume because it’s a .243 it has lite recoil. If you want a gun for her that is equally light and easy to handle, a .223 will kill anything. I don’t care what “they” say. My stepbrother shot an old .222 remington and killed everything with it.

Edit- i also agree with the grendel round and almost any of the light cartridges in an AR platform. It is hard to beat an AR for recoil in the first place. Great rifles.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 12/23/23 08:27 PM.

1 Thessalonians 4:11-14
Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: 10 Gauge] #8977225 12/23/23 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
.223 is deadly. .243 in a fairly hefty gun is comparable in recoil to a .223. Same cartridge in a light plastic rifle can rattle your teeth harder than a .30/06 in a wood stock. My wife handles 20 gauge slugs easier than the .243 ruger American. First time she shot it she said ouch! And never shot it again.

So don’t just assume because it’s a .243 it has lite recoil. If you want a gun for her that is equally light and easy to handle, a .223 will kill anything. I don’t care what “they” say. My stepbrother shot an old .222 remington and killed everything with it.


How many deer you killed with a .223?

I’ve shot a few and wasn’t impressed in the least. .22-250 is better but not perfect.

I started my kids with 7mm-08’s and hornady reduced recoil loads. Never had any problem killing animals.

I would get a 7mm-08 with a threaded barrel, put a hood can on it and get to shooting.

They will find it very pleasant


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977236 12/23/23 08:58 PM
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I have killed zero with a .223. My step brother on the other hand. All we had was a .22-250 and a .222, and rimfire stuff and of course pellet guns. I never went on any of their hunting trips. Welp it is what it is, not everyone does everything with the stepbrother/stepson that they do with their sons and brothers lol. But i am not gonna gonna take that conversation any further, by now you know my deer hunting path started as an adult, txtropy.

I know a .222 remington is deadly, and therefore a .223 is deadly too. No you are not going to just center punch deer with it like a 7 mag and kill them. But a well placed shot from a .223 will kill any native game in Texas inside 100-150 yards.

People think a .223 does little damage because it is a .22 caliber round. I have not used one on deer but i can promise you this, a .223 can shred your bones. It is a bad little round. Its not spectacular like a typical big game round, but all day long on a Texas deer it will kill them.

Teach your kids anatomy and wait for broadside shot.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 12/23/23 09:07 PM.

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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977239 12/23/23 09:02 PM
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Or if it makes you feel better wait for them to grow a little more, or get a 6.5 or 6.7 or 7.62 AR cartridge, or don’t. Step up in case capacity to a .243, the weight and shape of that gun matters more to a sensitive shooter.

But a .22 centerfire round in general is better than “they” will lead you to believe. Not as good as a .243 but it will work. Even with a 55 grain round it can be very effective. But i would probably shoot a better bullet, the bullets today are so good.

I think a .223 with something like a 55 grain partition would be dynamite. But no i haven’t used the partition myself in any cartridge so that must make me wrong lol.

There are some that will also tell you the .243 is marginal at best.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 12/23/23 09:06 PM.

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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977241 12/23/23 09:13 PM
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The cartridge is much less important than the design of the projectile.

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977256 12/23/23 09:46 PM
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I think the important thing to consider is the skill of the shooter. A good shot with a 223 won’t starve, but there is less margin for error than you’d get with a larger caliber. A newby shooter with a 223 wouldn’t be who I sent out to get us a deer. I’d go with the 243 for young shooters. A Ruger Hawkeye Compact or a Browning Midas would be good choices. Add a nice soft recoil pad if needed.

Another low recoil option would be a Tikka in 260 or 6.5 CM shooting a 100 gr bullet. I shot a lot of deer with the 260 and 100 gr Ballistic Tips, and recoil is light. And reloads, or light loads from Dallas Reloads or JG, with 100 gr bullets would be easy to shoot.

And a small bolt rifle in 6.5 Grendel might be the best choice of all.

I would not recommend an AR for youth shooters. A bolt action is so much simpler, and simplicity in this regard means safety.

Last edited by 603Country; 12/23/23 09:48 PM.

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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977260 12/23/23 09:53 PM
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My experience would say 7-08 for a few reasons.

First, there seems to be less ammo choices available and all of them geared toward hunting.

Second, the twist rates seem to facilitate the above ammo, less thought on the matter.

Third, ballistically it really makes use of shorter barrels

#4, completely capable on big game animals like elk

Fifth, less recoil and more bang for your buck

I personally think the 7-08 over the years has been given the short end of the stick concerning love from ammunition manufacturers.

I like the 243 win but all rifles definitely don’t shoot all ammo’s

All that being said, the Rem 223 hyper stuff knocks the piss outta deer

I’m a 30-06 fan but it will develop some bad habits with a 12 year old girl from concussion alone, much less recoil.

Last edited by Treinta-Treinta; 12/23/23 09:59 PM.
Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977342 12/24/23 02:02 AM
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Love my 7mm08 but think the light recoil for beginner recoil shy kids is bs.

I’ve killed literal truckloads of deer with a 223. It and a good bullet would work well. Bought a blackout for my boy he hasn’t killed a deer yet but has several javalina to its name.

If you a handloader dang near anything can work fine.


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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977352 12/24/23 02:33 AM
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After working with many young kids in shooting sports I have found muzzle blast seems to bother them more than recoil . High intensity rounds like .223 and .243 have a lot of blast , and people make it worst by getting short barrel rifles for kids . Yes a .223 will kill a deer , so will a 22lr with a perfect shot . That is rare for young beginners , and it is not good to start them out with wounded game that ran off . 7mm/08 has too much recoil , it is just shy of .308 with some bullets . 300 BO is ok , it is a .30 cal hole , but with the 110 bullets it has some blast but not bad on recoil , but is not too much more than the 30 carbine . This is one of the reasons I developed the cartridge that became the 350 legend about 5 years ago . Straight case is lower pressures and less blast [ even with a shorter barrel ] , recoil not that bad , a 160 - 180 .357 dia bullet hits much harder than a .223 . So much more room for error with the shot . The only real draw back is it is 150 yd max , but I would not have a 12 year old girl shooting farther than that .

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977358 12/24/23 02:48 AM
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What Gary said…..the 6.5 Grendel is a perfect “entry level” for deer. Other than that, several of the 6mm cartridges fit the bill.
If you load, I could imagine great things from a lightly loaded .25-06.


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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: diablodog] #8977370 12/24/23 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by diablodog
300 BO is ok , it is a .30 cal hole , but with the 110 bullets it has some blast but not bad on recoil


Zero Blast, especially suppressed. My #2 Niece just brought her BF down, dropped his first deer, with the BO. Those Barnes bullets just work within range. Other Niece killed her first buck with it 2 yrs ago. Big holes, zero problems with penetration.





Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977372 12/24/23 03:19 AM
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Lots of great information. Thank you all for the comments. Keep them coming. I’m especially intrigued by recoil over muzzle brake. I would like to hear more on that aspect as I felt sure a muzzle brake would be a must.

I have 5 feeders on our property. Two that are just over 100 yards which would be perfect for them. They can later graduate to our 170 yard and then in time advance to our 225 and 235 yarders. Of course with larger caliber rifles as well.

We have some time so I’m in no hurry. Maybe, depending on how they do on paper, they can shoot pigs by Spring possibly Summer.with the AR. They are not completely forign to guns but haven’t shot much because I do not own any rifles they can shoulder other than a AR 15 which they have only shot a few times. All my kids and grandkids have been able to shoot 270, 30.06 and the likes of. We have no shortage in calibers, just short on rifles for small framed girls. Im thinking we will practice with the .22’s and move up to the AR for a while. From there we will choose a good calaber rifle and style that fits them best.


Last edited by BlackSnake; 12/24/23 03:27 AM.


Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977378 12/24/23 03:35 AM
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There is no comparison between .22LR and .223


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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: 10 Gauge] #8977383 12/24/23 03:40 AM
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Of course not. I just want to get them on good paper with the .22 and then move up to the 223 at 100 yards.



Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977384 12/24/23 03:43 AM
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I would start them with a 300 BO, then a .243 bolt gun with proper ammo and never look back Sir.

Don't forget a 22-250.

My youngest daughter (9) is always good on paper with her new 6.8SPC, which I also think is a bad azz hunting round for adults and kids. My only experience with it prior was on big pigs and it never disappointed. She's about to pop a few deer with her new 6.8, that is a guarantee, and I believe all of them will be hanging in a short manner.

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977386 12/24/23 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackSnake
Of course not. I just want to get them on good paper with the .22 and then move up to the 223 at 100 yards.


Sorry friend that was not aimed at you.


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Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977388 12/24/23 03:53 AM
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For me i'd go the 6.5 Grendel route. Not a lot of recoil and not limited in range. I hunt with a 243 and 300bo as well but if i had to pick one it would be the Grendel.

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: TKM] #8977393 12/24/23 04:07 AM
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It’s all good my friend



Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977394 12/24/23 04:11 AM
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Many good choices these days, find something with a well made 80-100 GR bullet that will make impact above 1800 FPS and go hunt. A 6 ARC would be great IMO. I put a Micro Bastard brake on a Ruger American 243 for a small frame kid to shoot a few weeks ago and the recoil is like a 22 LR, basically none. The kid shot it real well. 223 can kill them, my kid just nailed a good size hog off the front porch with one 15 minutes ago that is now peacefully sleeping. Keep it simple, no need to overthink it.

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977404 12/24/23 04:48 AM
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Sig Cross in 6.5 Creedmoor with suppressor. Adjustable stock to fit most anyone and a rifle they can shoot for a lifetime.

Re: 223, 243, 270, 30.06 [Re: BlackSnake] #8977408 12/24/23 05:04 AM
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I bought my wife a REM 222. She shot a deer and decided it wasn’t t for her. Then my 8 year old grandson shot one with it. Several granddaughters have used it. I used it after my shoulder surgery.

I consider it an excellent first deer rifle.


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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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