I'm pretty sure we've tackled that there's no real difference in velocity due to the type of action, all other things held equal.

If you are looking for quiet, you have to load subsonic in the 300blk to get quiet. It's just as easy to load subsonic .308.

As to the question/comments of, "Since you are going the bolt action route, because you can load higher pressures, and load rounds longer, why get a 300blk bolt rifle? Why not just get a .308? That's my point."

It is really quite simple. I believe in optimizing my gear and tailor it to a specific need, which can become cost prohibitive. First, there is no reason to shoot subsonic out of a .308 unless you don't want/have a 300 Blackout. First, most .308's are a 1:10 twist barrel that is not great for stabilizing heavier bullets so now you're monkeying with finding a lighter bullet that stabilizes in the slower .308 twist barrel. Second, assuming same barrel length and same bullet weight, both cartridges require the same amount of powder to achieve subsonic velocity. However, there is a significant case volume difference (2x) in the 308 compared to 300BO. The result is a lot of empty space, which translates into inconsistent ignition/combustion from shot to shot in 308 subsonic making for larger less consistent groups. For this reason every .308 shooter who wants to try subsonic is using Trail Boss if they're smart (large bulky powder that helps fill the excess space in .308 case) &/or using stuffing material (cotton wadding, cornmeal, etc.) to fill up the gap in the case. It all comes down to, "You can do it that way. But if there is a better option then why not do that?"

Shooting with a suppressor is greatest improvement to shooting experience in past 30 years. I don't use subsonic ammo when I hunt... for me the most important thing is a clean fast kill. Aside from shot placement, velocity is most significant contributor to this success. Observations from hunting pigs is that the animals (deer, pigs, raccoon, and everything else) are more disturbed by the loud bang, and not the sonic crack. Typically, whether shooting supersonic or subsonic ammo, everything clears out when a shot is taken. However, if rifle was kitted with a suppressor, then the animals will return to the area within a short period of time (same hunt). The suppressor absorbing/neutralizing the loud Bang, not the sonic crack, is what matters. Just shoot supersonic ammunition with the suppressor and take advantage of its greater reach (flatter trajectory over longer distances and benefit from increased terminal force.

I save the subsonic for shooting with my kids. It makes everyone on the range smile when I pull out a small rifle that a 10 year old can fit and with the suppressor it recoil isn't much more than a 22 long rifle. Dad looks like a hero and gumball and lollipops explode downrange with out any sound.

Best comment on the THF I've read in along time on here.

I had not thought about barrel twist. As for kids shooting and having a great...and quiet time, I agree that 300BLK with a suppressor is great. I have more than one in an AR platform, and I love them! I just have been having a hard time seeing where a 300blk (or a grendel, or an SPC, or a Ham'r) in a bolt action is beneficial over the AR platform. The way I see it, those cartridges were designed to get the most out of an AR platform, and if you are going to go the route of bolt gun, why not step up to a full short action round rather than an AR sized round? Sorry to be so damn bull headed. Obviously, I am the odd man out on this one.

It is hard to convince someone that bigger isn't better, especially when it comes to manly things.... bass fishing, pickup trucks, muscle cars, football, and firearms. Tell me you didn't just smile and nod your head.

The AR15 is a proven workhorse that I reach for when I am going somewhere ugly, wet, muddy, or may require fast, repeatatve shooting. My relationship with the AR15 started with hunting pigs in river bottoms that routinely floods and shooting 3Gun competitions. My AR's are just as nice as my Bolt Rifles. With the development of the .223 Rem for the M16, this cartridge became a focal point for the development of a bunch of similar Micro Cartridges. One of the first wildcats made from the newly introduced .223 was the 223AI and 6x45. The 6x45 was a benchrest favorite for a handful of years until replaced by the 6PPU, which was the parent for the 6.5 Grendel. A lot of the designs and refinements in modern short action cartridges benefited from advancements in the Micro Cartridges that are common to AR15 platform and for Varmint Hunting.

If you have limited funds or limited interest in shooting other than hunting season then find the one gun that meets your needs and satisfies your social circle. However, if you have an open mind and not just holding onto the status quo then you might find yourself surprised by some of the Micro Calibers. Their performance will make you seriously rethink what is the best fit rifle/cartridge for your intended use.

"Why have both a Bolt Rifle and a AR in the same cartridge?" Simple, I select Cartridges with a purpose in mind and that drives the choice of Bolt Rifle of AR10/AR15. If a Cartridge meets my expectation and I enjoy shooting it then I might decide that I would also like it in the other platform. My cross-over cartridges are .223 (everyone should have at least this one), 300BO, and 6.5 Grendel.

I don't drink much. I don't gamble. I realize with my driving style a fast car would kill me. Besides woodworking, my one vice is shooting. What my friends spend on tailgating football from their living room ($250/week) adds up to a nice rifle or two by the end of the season.

For my 300BO there is a noticeable increase in velocity for this size cartridge. Also, I like having my night hunting rig locked down, which means I need a daytime rig. When I built my 300BO's it was almost 15 years ago. There wasn't many caliber options.... Bill Alexander still had his trademark death grip on all things Grendel. I was not interested in being held hostage for guns, parts, magazines, and ammunition to one company. I went with 300BO as something a little harder hitting at short range over the 5.56.




I have no regrets with CZ527 300BO, but the 300HAM'R might have won out if I did it again. Can't go wrong with a Grendel, either.

Sized bullets? You lost me.

I'm guessing he meant over sized as in heavier bullets.

I think he was referring to the heavier weight bullets with higher sectional density and BCs which make a difference if wanting to hunt larger than varmints or buck the wind for longer range shots. 22-250 has speed but twist rate limits bullet weight to about 64gr in a blunt flat based bullets. Hornady 75gr amax work well on hogs from a 223 and the bullets that Bobo mentioned earlier are developing a reputation for taking critters way larger than what one would usually consider for such a small cartridge. The 6.5MS cartridge bell used on elephants and has taken large game successfully around the world got that reputation with long high sectional density bullets and that type performance translates over to smaller calibers on what is thought to be outsized for the caliber. In 22 cal my favorite bullet is a 75gr Swift Sirocco which is long and bonded and has cleanly killed everything I have shot with it either from a 223 or 22-243.

T.G. week we had nieces, nephews & GKs at the ranch, went shooting steel. 9mm, 223, 45acp. BO SS & pistol (1:8). Went through bunch of ammo. I took 145 & 170gr cast with pistol powder & a few 110g vmax hog loads. Asked which gun they liked shooting best. CVA BO single shot! 12-17 yr old kids - and it wasn't a recoil problem. Looked at 40WT, didn't fit. 300Hamr is more powerful but still, I got 308 & 30/30 so not really needed. I can load BO to any pistol cal capabilities (9, 40,10,357, etc - diff is diameter) cheap and have almost Hamr capability also. Guy on another board that casts just got a Hamr, we'll see. For me, BO is just the multi-tool of cartridges. Yup, I've stuffed big cases will filler and it works but a PITA extra step.

sorry, the heavier 22 cal bullets in the plus 70gr range. Higher B.C and Sectional density.