Interesting video. I know a lot of people say they have a 1 MOA rifle, but can they prove it?

AR15.com had the "1 MOA All Day" challenge. I think a lot of people tried it and ate some humble pie

Yup. Excellent video. 1 MOA with a hunting rifle.... on demand.... is fairly rare. What a person can do once with 3 shots has no real meaning. But we guys tend to be pretty good at lying to ourselves. Me, anyway.

Reminds me of a challenge a guy put up for all the guys with lifted diesels claiming 20 mpg. Said he would pay all expenses and buy a top of the line steak dinner and some cash for any willing to prove it. Never had a taker. Lol

Can't open the video, is he talking 5 or ten shot groups?

I disagree that 3 shot groups are without meaning. If I can shoot 3 3shot groups in a row under an inch within 10 minutes that means nothing? I agree if it can not be repeated then it is a fluke. That said there are a lot more MOA rifles than there are MOA shooters.

I think the only thing you can say about a hunting rifle that would be absolutely true 100% of the time is whether or not you have confidence in it, and it would still be a question of just how honest you are with yourself. I have rifles that often, if not ALMOST always will print five shots in under an inch, but for some reason the ones I have the most confidence in are not among those. They just seem to be lucky rifles...like the Model 70 in .30-06 I beat someone here out of in a swap several years ago. I seem to see plenty to shoot at when I'm carrying it, and misses are very rare.

I think we tend to put a little too much emphasis on accuracy sometimes. A 2 MOA rifle (whatever that is) is good out to 300 yards and beyond, depending on what you're after. OTOH, knowing that a rifle does put five in an inch more often than not does nothing to hurt your confidence for sure.

I think we sometimes tend to be too easily led to believe things that help merchants sell stuff.

My 1903A3 custom 30-06 has been my lucky rifle since 1981. And no it won't reliably put three shots under an inch every time. Close most of the time.

ironically he did it with his sig cross (with load work up) and springfield waypoint.

most rifles he is talking about have a “three shot” MOA disclaimer, 5 would be cool but why? Im more worried about first shot cold bore. My fierce is sub moa for three(thanks to JG’s workup) but you better give an it hour for last two. Its also a 28 nosler that weights 6.5 lbs so barrel is paper thin

Why does a hunting rifle need to shoot a 5 shot group? It's a hunting rifle, not a target rifle. The goal is that it shoots one shot, and then the knives come out. Sometimes a second shot might be needed.

Of course in the video he can't get anyone to shoot 1 MOA for a 5 shot group. A whole lot of rifles are plenty hot at 3 shots. Barrel heat will ruin shots 4 and 5. I can guarantee that a carbon fiber barrel will not tolerate more than 3 consecutive shots. And I have tested quite a few long action magnum cartridges in a carbon fiber barrel, that won't tolerate more than 2 consecutive shots.

He never mentions a par time for this 5 shot group. And I saw him shoot factory ammo. I guess most people are doing the same. A whole lot of trouble is going to come from the factory ammo. The powder charge varies too greatly.

With my 220 or 223, I’m pretty sure I could take his money. I’d go prove it to myself if it wasn’t 104 out there. Probably the 260 would do it too.

Sorry if I have over simplified my point. A 3 shot group is a single 3 shot group. From that you can learn very little. Your 3, 3 shot groups are 9 shots. You can learn a lot from 9 shots. I am a fan of 5 shot groups because (or so I have read) that is the smallest number of samples that are statistically valuable. A couple years ago I was challenged that 10 shots are the beginning of knowing how accurate the load is in your rifle. But, like you, I always test with 3, 5 shot groups to determine accuracy.

I was not even thinking about first shot accuracy in my reply but that IS where the meat comes from. It would make an excellent thread for us all.

I wandered down a similar trail just for grins and giggles

Shot a sub moa group on a warm barrel with two separate loads and then a 10 shot group on a hot barrel

While not the same challenge as the backfire video

My testing was to see how accurate the gun would be on follow up shooting at hog sounders - you know cause any accuracy over a full string of fire is helpful when hog hunting

3 shot groups are something I measure by but not entirely. Keep up with 10 trips to the range and shoot 3 shot group with a rifle cold bore for the first shot then the next 2 within 3 minures and see what you do. I look at that as 30 shots over time Keep the targets and with dates and times recorded.

The first shot or two is what counts when hunting so far a hunting rifle IMO 3 shots are enough. Barrels heat up and in the field you are shooting cold bore shot for your best chance on game so why in the world for a hunting rifle would one throw out the first shot. For a while I kept a playing card for several rifles that were fairly accurate less than MOA on 10 shots cold bore over 10 trips to the range 100 yards one kept that in a half inch for 9 of the 10 shots and that one was called pull to the right by me and it was 3/4 inch from the group. That rifle would also had 10 3 shot groups under 3/4 inch over 10 trips to the range and yes Factory rifle Remington 788 in 7mm-08. Still have that rifle. I also shot a lot in those days for a hunter and reloader.

A lot depends on ones definition of accuracy and expectations. Like pointed out in the video accuracy guarantees of accuracy are not good on most rifles or ammunition. Hornady told me on some that would not shoot under 4 inches at 100 yards from my rifle would be in spec with at least one inch at 100 yards from one of theirs and that is good enough for them. Tech that told me that said the same ammo did the same with hi rifle as well o he checked it in theirs and shot under an inch with it so it was good to the company.

Funny this video and Hornady video accuracy expectations when Joyce Hornady that started the company had a goal of all bullets in a group to be in one hole. He shot bench rest IIRC and of course that is the goal, a one hole group.

This......

5 shot groups dont matter for hunting

Bring that down to a more reasonable 3 shot group, which still don’t matter and his theory/opinion starts petering out.

Dedicated hunting rifle…2 shots….where they at? That’s what matters

My factory Tikka CTR without any mods would do 5 shots in an inch with factory hornady 140 eld-m...would do it with my handloads with even more margin to spare obviously.

But I agree that most hunters have no need for a 5-shot test. Might as well have an axe-throwing competition - it's about as applicable to their standard operating procedure.

That CTR hit 800 yards 1/4 MOA at fireman's place one year didn't it?

I've no problem shooting one hole groups from stone cold factory rifles.......

as long as I fire one shot!






Browning X-Bolt Max Long Range, 6.5 PRC




Dakota M10, 7mm-08




Blaser R93, 7mm-08





Blaser K95, 30-06 Springfield





Steyr Mannlicher, Mannlicher Classic, 8MM Mauser




Nosler M48 Custom Sporter, 325 WSM


ya!

GWB

Yeah...all I had upgraded was the bolt handle and the stock. Action, trigger, barrel are all still factory.

I still regret selling my 223 varmint...it was about as good of a shooter as my CTR

Yep.

Video is bull or people don’t spend enough time behind their rifles.

I have exactly one rifle that will not do that. A M77 257 Roberts.

At one point I could shoot sub MOA through an entire case of ammo when shooting one of my Anschultz 54s, Remington 40x in 22lr, or a Winchester 52d and I have hunted rodents with all of thoses rifles. Does that make them count as a hunting rifle?

Regardless of the group size, I notice nobody ever hits the center of the target. I didn't notice any extreme examples of it in that video, but it drives me nuts when people use a caliper to measure a group that is a foot and a half from where they were aiming.

During load development, the bull is nothing more than a consistent aiming point (POA). Zeroing can be done after finding the load, at least that's how I roll. That being said, if I were a foot off I'd do something about that.