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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8874695
06/28/23 02:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 341
claypool
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 341 |
To the original post, with no more info to go on than what the link provided it sounds as if that GW over stepped his authority.
as to all the other post about GWs. I am 60 now been hunting since I was in grade school. been checked by GW numerous times and have never received a citation. There have been a very small few that seemed to try much harder than others. Most are at the least professional and more than a few outright friendly. I aint mad at any of em, but I aint giving one a key to my gate anymore than I am giving a cop a key to my home. I can tell you these as well if a GW came on to my property and took stuff claiming an investigation is going on and I know I am in the right. I would be taking every means necessary to find out why and end that investigation. How I deal with that GW from that point forward would depend on exactly how he deals with me.
I shouldn't have to say this but when I said every means necessary, I mean legal means.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8874701
06/28/23 02:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,709
Cochise
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,709 |
The rabid tribalism shows an utter lack of intelligence.
It must be difficult to lack the computing power between your ears to process the idea that one can support the job LEOs perform while still standing up for and valuing the rights we have as American citizens that are guaranteed by the constitution.
It is A okay to question authority - it doesn’t make you an anti-American terrorist or some outlaw poacher. My gosh that is a silly world view.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Cochise]
#8874731
06/28/23 03:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,202
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,202 |
The rabid tribalism shows an utter lack of intelligence.
It must be difficult to lack the computing power between your ears to process the idea that one can support the job LEOs perform while still standing up for and valuing the rights we have as American citizens that are guaranteed by the constitution.
It is A okay to question authority - it doesn’t make you an anti-American terrorist or some outlaw poacher. My gosh that is a silly world view. Yep. It’s a shame how little people value their rights. That’s why they’re slipping away.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8874743
06/28/23 04:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,053
TurkeyHunter
determined
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determined
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,053 |
The GW may have wanted to see which tag you used on the doe and he may have wanted to see if it was properly recorded on the reverse side of license. Perhaps this is a good place to stop and ask yourself what if the roles were reversed and you were the officer. You come across two men working on a tractor just outside a barn. You have no history with either of them ever breaking any laws and it's obvious they're not hunting and for all you know, may not have hunted that season or at any time in the past. Now would you feel it would be appropriate to stop and ask them to stop what they are doing so you can ask them if they had been hunting that season and when one of them said yes, feel it necessary to ask to see his license? I can honestly say that if the roles were reversed on me, I would not have even stopped to waste their time. If it bothers you so much to post about it, why don’t you man up and call him? All their cell phone numbers are online. That way you could get the answer yourself. Could he also have politely declined to answer any questions starting at the the first question? Not being snarky just curious. Or would Texas Dan have been compelled by law to answer the Game Warden's questions?
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8874876
06/28/23 02:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265
maximus_flavius
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265 |
If you hunt or fish you owe a debt of gratitude to the Gamewardens who are tasked with policing the resource. Whether you realize it or not, it is the sportsmen who harvest the fruit of the wardens labor. All the native wild game animals in Texas are owned by the state. That is regardless of whether on public or private property. In order for wardens to police the resource they are tasked with, requires them to go where the animals are, be it public or private. My experiences with Gamewardens has been overwhelmingly positive. I have had two encounters with wardens that were not positive. Both were young men that did not yet know their way around. Both matured into assets to have around in time. The net benefits have far outweighed the two negatives in my estimation. In light of that I always show the wardens grace, even in the rare instances they were mistaken. May your chains rest lightly.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: maximus_flavius]
#8874904
06/28/23 03:29 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,523
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,523 |
If you hunt or fish you owe a debt of gratitude to the Gamewardens who are tasked with policing the resource. Whether you realize it or not, it is the sportsmen who harvest the fruit of the wardens labor. All the native wild game animals in Texas are owned by the state. That is regardless of whether on public or private property. In order for wardens to police the resource they are tasked with, requires them to go where the animals are, be it public or private. My experiences with Gamewardens has been overwhelmingly positive. I have had two encounters with wardens that were not positive. Both were young men that did not yet know their way around. Both matured into assets to have around in time. The net benefits have far outweighed the two negatives in my estimation. In light of that I always show the wardens grace, even in the rare instances they were mistaken. May your chains rest lightly. Take the blinders off Max. I seriously doubt you and I see things from the same perspective.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#8874920
06/28/23 04:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540
spankyttx
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540 |
The GW may have wanted to see which tag you used on the doe and he may have wanted to see if it was properly recorded on the reverse side of license. Perhaps this is a good place to stop and ask yourself what if the roles were reversed and you were the officer. You come across two men working on a tractor just outside a barn. You have no history with either of them ever breaking any laws and it's obvious they're not hunting and for all you know, may not have hunted that season or at any time in the past. Now would you feel it would be appropriate to stop and ask them to stop what they are doing so you can ask them if they had been hunting that season and when one of them said yes, feel it necessary to ask to see his license? I can honestly say that if the roles were reversed on me, I would not have even stopped to waste their time. If it bothers you so much to post about it, why don’t you man up and call him? All their cell phone numbers are online. That way you could get the answer yourself. Could he also have politely declined to answer any questions starting at the the first question? Not being snarky just curious. Or would Texas Dan have been compelled by law to answer the Game Warden's questions? yup, the 5th is there for a reason, anything you say can and will be used against you. it's called phishing, where you going, where you been, what color panties is your wife wearing today, bla bla bla, sorry sir, i don't answer those types of questions. use'em or lose'em
LI-SI-WI-NWI
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875014
06/28/23 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,968
#Hayraker
Chihuahua
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Chihuahua
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,968 |
do you own property?, maybe you do I don't know, but I find that people who don't own property have more liberal views on who should be allowed to enter private land for various reasons.
#sigline
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875016
06/28/23 07:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540
spankyttx
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540 |
that's without question, it has been on the books for a long time. what is questionable is, is it constitutional. this is the reason the institute for justice is taking this case and they are a force to be reckoned with. and if they prevail, it will led to changes in the open field docrine
LI-SI-WI-NWI
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: spankyttx]
#8875036
06/28/23 07:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,342
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,342 |
that's without question, it has been on the books for a long time. what is questionable is, is it constitutional. this is the reason the institute for justice is taking this case and they are a force to be reckoned with. and if they prevail, it will led to changes in the open field docrine It’s a US Supreme Court decision so good luck with that.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875051
06/28/23 08:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540
spankyttx
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540 |
that's without question, it has been on the books for a long time. what is questionable is, is it constitutional. this is the reason the institute for justice is taking this case and they are a force to be reckoned with. and if they prevail, it will lead to changes in the open field doctrine It’s a US Supreme Court decision so good luck with that. do you really think the institute for justice would not be prepared to take it that far?
LI-SI-WI-NWI
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: #Hayraker]
#8875061
06/28/23 08:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,053
TurkeyHunter
determined
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determined
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,053 |
do you own property?, maybe you do I don't know, but I find that people who don't own property have more liberal views on who should be allowed to enter private land for various reasons. Views on whether we like it or not have nothing to do with the existing law. The open fields doctrine is nothing new. It has been around for some time. Many don't like the idea of law enforcement coming onto their property without permission. The law doesn't care whether you agree or not. People can start a movement to change the law if they wish. Maybe they will be successful. But it would be a challenge. The way I understand it, game wardens have no more power than any other law enforcement. Isn't it probable cause that hunting activity is occurring which allows them to use the open fields doctrine to investigate? Or probable cause to search an enclosed space with a warrant in other circumstances?
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: spankyttx]
#8875063
06/28/23 08:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,053
TurkeyHunter
determined
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determined
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,053 |
do you really think the institute for justice would not be prepared to take it that far?
Then they should give it a go. Get started. Challenge the law. That's how it's supposed to work.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#8875085
06/28/23 09:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540
spankyttx
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540 |
do you really think the institute for justice would not be prepared to take it that far?
Then they should give it a go. Get started. Challenge the law. That's how it's supposed to work. yup, they have already started, i posted their video on p4 of this thread
LI-SI-WI-NWI
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#8875090
06/28/23 09:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,342
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,342 |
do you own property?, maybe you do I don't know, but I find that people who don't own property have more liberal views on who should be allowed to enter private land for various reasons. Yes, I own my own ranch after retiring from 25 years of fulfilling my oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of Texas.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: spankyttx]
#8875152
06/28/23 10:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318 |
that's without question, it has been on the books for a long time. what is questionable is, is it constitutional. this is the reason the institute for justice is taking this case and they are a force to be reckoned with. and if they prevail, it will led to changes in the open field docrine Keep us posted if the law changes. Until then Ill keep going by the law and ill be cooperative with any LEO, including GW, until Im given a reason not to.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875153
06/28/23 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,968
#Hayraker
Chihuahua
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Chihuahua
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,968 |
do you own property?, maybe you do I don't know, but I find that people who don't own property have more liberal views on who should be allowed to enter private land for various reasons. Yes, I own my own ranch after retiring from 25 years of fulfilling my oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of Texas. . Well hell yeah, and thank you for your service. For the record, I'm not anti law enforcement, anti game warden, or some hippie type pinko fg, I just don't think we should accept that the government can do whatever they want just because they say so.
#sigline
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8875252
06/29/23 02:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 267
wfontjr
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 267 |
How do all “if you are not doing anything wrong crowd” feel when the game warden knocks on the door of your residence long enough to get your wife out the shower to sputter, em……… never mind…..em…… I’m glad I was not home I would not have been happy.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: maximus_flavius]
#8875558
06/29/23 06:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,998
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,998 |
[quote=Smokey Bear]If you hunt or fish you owe a debt of gratitude to the Gamewardens who are tasked with policing the resource. Whether you realize it or not, it is the sportsmen who harvest the fruit of the wardens labor. All the native wild game animals in Texas are owned by the state. That is regardless of whether on public or private property. In order for wardens to police the resource they are tasked with, requires them to go where the animals are, be it public or private. My experiences with Gamewardens has been overwhelmingly positive. I have had two encounters with wardens that were not positive. Both were young men that did not yet know their way around. Both matured into assets to have around in time. The net benefits have far outweighed the two negatives in my estimation. In light of that I always show the wardens grace, even in the rare instances they were mistaken. The game animals are owned by the PEOPLE of the state held in trust, it is not owned by the state as an entity. The gratitude is owed to conservationist who spent their own time and dime to protect and develop the resources that we are able to be stewards of today, otherwise there would be no game laws to police, as there would be no game. I admire wardens and support them in the whole, as mentioned before I've only had one instance where they could have been a little more friendly, but other than that, I'm fine with them. as for overstepping....hard line to draw there. I'm not going to lie and say I have followed the letter of the law to a T.....most were simple things like not tagging a deer until the next day, things like that. Back when we had the south texas place we would bone out and vacuum seal an entire deer and take it home....not supposed to do that either. But neither instance was a theft to the people of the state nor to the animal resource. I would venture a guess that by a large margin most citations are issued for very minor infractions rather than a grievous disregard for the law. There is a big difference between waiting to get back to camp to tag a deer and shooting one off the side of the road or having 25 fish over your limit.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875629
06/29/23 08:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,847
DocHorton
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,847 |
that's without question, it has been on the books for a long time. what is questionable is, is it constitutional. this is the reason the institute for justice is taking this case and they are a force to be reckoned with. and if they prevail, it will led to changes in the open field docrine It’s a US Supreme Court decision so good luck with that. "Since Oliver, the highest courts of Montana, New York, Oregon and Vermont, as well as a Washington state appeals court, have held that the open-fields doctrine does not apply in those states due to their state constitutions granting greater protections to citizens (under dual sovereignty a state may grant its citizens more rights than those guaranteed in the federal constitution). " Apparently several very liberal states do not follow it because their wise state constitutions give their residents the rights they deserve.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: DocHorton]
#8875650
06/29/23 08:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,506
Texas Dan
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,506 |
"Since Oliver, the highest courts of Montana, New York, Oregon and Vermont, as well as a Washington state appeals court, have held that the open-fields doctrine does not apply in those states due to their state constitutions granting greater protections to citizens (under dual sovereignty a state may grant its citizens more rights than those guaranteed in the federal constitution). "
Apparently several very liberal states do not follow it because their wise state constitutions give their residents the rights they deserve. Just to dovetail into comments made in the news article linked in the OP... Highlander's lawsuit against DWR, filed this month, challenges a nearly 100-year-old Supreme Court ruling that Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless searches and seizures do not apply to open fields, even if they are surrounded by fences or no trespassing signs. A few states have extended Fourth Amendment protections to privately owned land beyond the curtilage of a home, but Virginia is not among them.Agreed, it's interesting that both conservative and liberal states are among those who have extended Fourth Amendment protections to private land beyond the curtilage of a home.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 06/29/23 08:50 PM.
"When the debate is lost, insults become the tool of the loser."
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8875653
06/29/23 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,009
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,009 |
I learned a new word: "Curtilage".
I like this word. I'm going to try and use it in a few sentences over the next week.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#8875657
06/29/23 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,506
Texas Dan
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,506 |
I learned a new word: "Curtilage".
I like this word. I'm going to try and use it in a few sentences over the next week.
I learned through interpretation of the comments shared that despite what I was told many decades ago, officers cannot enter your home without a warrant to search your freezer.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 06/29/23 08:57 PM.
"When the debate is lost, insults become the tool of the loser."
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8875660
06/29/23 09:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,202
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,202 |
I learned a new word: "Curtilage".
I like this word. I'm going to try and use it in a few sentences over the next week.
I learned through interpretation of the comments shared that despite what I was told many decades ago, officers cannot enter your home without a warrant to search your freezer. They can, but they need probable cause or permission.
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