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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Sneaky]
#8875664
06/29/23 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,009
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,009 |
I learned a new word: "Curtilage".
I like this word. I'm going to try and use it in a few sentences over the next week.
I learned through interpretation of the comments shared that despite what I was told many decades ago, officers cannot enter your home without a warrant to search your freezer. They can, but they need probable cause or permission. I don't know. Now that I know this new word, it could be no. But, if you have a freezer in an outbuilding outside of your curtilage, maybe yes. There, I used "curtilage" in a sentence.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Sneaky]
#8875680
06/29/23 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,506
Texas Dan
OP
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OP
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I learned a new word: "Curtilage".
I like this word. I'm going to try and use it in a few sentences over the next week.
I learned through interpretation of the comments shared that despite what I was told many decades ago, officers cannot enter your home without a warrant to search your freezer. They can, but they need probable cause or permission. I thought probable cause was needed to get a warrant.
"When the debate is lost, insults become the tool of the loser."
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8875705
06/29/23 10:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,196
Sneaky
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As far as I understand it, any LEO can search your residence given sufficient probable cause. Maybe NTX can confirm or correct this.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Sneaky]
#8875709
06/29/23 11:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,342
ntxtrapper
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As far as I understand it, any LEO can search your residence given sufficient probable cause. Maybe NTX can confirm or correct this. No. A warrant is required to enter a residence. Probable Cause is the requirement for the warrant. Consent or exigent circumstances (An emergency) are the only exceptions for a warrant requirement.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Sneaky]
#8875713
06/29/23 11:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,709
JimBridger
Extreme Tracker
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As far as I understand it, any LEO can search your residence given sufficient probable cause. Maybe NTX can confirm or correct this. The 4th amendment is a lot more complicated than most of y’all realize. While a warrantless search may be lawful under specific circumstances searching a whole house is almost never legal without a warrant specifically describing what is to be searched and what is to seized. There are circumstances that allow an LEO some latitude but there is no blanket exceptions. Probable cause is the basis for any search whether warrantless or with a warrant, but an LEO needs to be able to articulate the circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that criminal activity is afoot. In order to fully understand the 4th amendment, it’s essential to look at both the affirming and descenting opinions of the court. Many precedent cases are decided by a 5-4 decision.
Last edited by JimBridger; 06/29/23 11:33 PM.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875717
06/29/23 11:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,196
Sneaky
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As far as I understand it, any LEO can search your residence given sufficient probable cause. Maybe NTX can confirm or correct this. No. A warrant is required to enter a residence. Probable Cause is the requirement for the warrant. Consent or exigent circumstances (An emergency) are the only exceptions for a warrant requirement. Thanks. I had the two mixed up.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8875771
06/30/23 01:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,847
DocHorton
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,847 |
Curtilage....isn't that the stuff in a milk jug when it's been sitting in the fridge too long? 
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8875777
06/30/23 01:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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As far as I understand it, any LEO can search your residence given sufficient probable cause. Maybe NTX can confirm or correct this. No. A warrant is required to enter a residence. Probable Cause is the requirement for the warrant. Consent or exigent circumstances (An emergency) are the only exceptions for a warrant requirement. "Exigent". Another one for you Onlysmith.....
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: freerange]
#8875794
06/30/23 01:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,009
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,009 |
As far as I understand it, any LEO can search your residence given sufficient probable cause. Maybe NTX can confirm or correct this. No. A warrant is required to enter a residence. Probable Cause is the requirement for the warrant. Consent or exigent circumstances (An emergency) are the only exceptions for a warrant requirement. "Exigent". Another one for you Onlysmith..... I think I had that once. It's like ringworm, right? You gotta' get right on that ringworm quick. Like find a 24 hour CVS quick.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#8875815
06/30/23 02:54 AM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,523
Smokey Bear
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[quote=Smokey Bear]If you hunt or fish you owe a debt of gratitude to the Gamewardens who are tasked with policing the resource. Whether you realize it or not, it is the sportsmen who harvest the fruit of the wardens labor. All the native wild game animals in Texas are owned by the state. That is regardless of whether on public or private property. In order for wardens to police the resource they are tasked with, requires them to go where the animals are, be it public or private. My experiences with Gamewardens has been overwhelmingly positive. I have had two encounters with wardens that were not positive. Both were young men that did not yet know their way around. Both matured into assets to have around in time. The net benefits have far outweighed the two negatives in my estimation. In light of that I always show the wardens grace, even in the rare instances they were mistaken. The game animals are owned by the PEOPLE of the state held in trust, it is not owned by the state as an entity. The gratitude is owed to conservationist who spent their own time and dime to protect and develop the resources that we are able to be stewards of today, otherwise there would be no game laws to police, as there would be no game. I admire wardens and support them in the whole, as mentioned before I've only had one instance where they could have been a little more friendly, but other than that, I'm fine with them. as for overstepping....hard line to draw there. I'm not going to lie and say I have followed the letter of the law to a T.....most were simple things like not tagging a deer until the next day, things like that. Back when we had the south texas place we would bone out and vacuum seal an entire deer and take it home....not supposed to do that either. But neither instance was a theft to the people of the state nor to the animal resource. I would venture a guess that by a large margin most citations are issued for very minor infractions rather than a grievous disregard for the law. There is a big difference between waiting to get back to camp to tag a deer and shooting one off the side of the road or having 25 fish over your limit. First hand experience here txtrophy85. Without the support of wardens, what conservationists can accomplish is very often diminished. You may be right about the minor infractions being what you have seen. What I have seen is poachers becoming aware of conservationists successes with their own dime, and wardens apprehending them for trespassing and illegally taking game that is present due to the conservationists effort and willingness to spend his own dime. The two work hand in hand where they achieve the most notable results. Unfortunately realizing a high degree of success makes the successful conservationist a target of the slack jawed redneck poachers. Sadly, the committed poacher will travel great distances, and expend a lot of effort to target particular landowners in their zeal to illegally take trophy animals. I might add that some of them are quite skilled and utilize cutting edge equipment illegally. Unchecked they can be impactful. Gamewardens have proven to me they are a tremendous asset to the conservationist. Personally I want the wardens freed up to do their job to the best of their ability. Sorry if that was a bit long winded but yes lawful sportsmen are the ones that ultimately harvest the fruit of the wardens labor.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8875856
06/30/23 10:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,820
Creekrunner
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Posts: 26,820 |
Unfortunately realizing a high degree of success makes the successful conservationist a target of the slack jawed redneck poachers. Sadly, the committed poacher will travel great distances, and expend a lot of effort to target particular landowners in their zeal to illegally take trophy animals. I might add that some of them are quite skilled and utilize cutting edge equipment illegally. 'Can't help but feel you're talkin' 'bout "behind the pine curtain." 'Whole differn't world over thar. 
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Creekrunner]
#8875878
06/30/23 12:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,196
Sneaky
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Unfortunately realizing a high degree of success makes the successful conservationist a target of the slack jawed redneck poachers. Sadly, the committed poacher will travel great distances, and expend a lot of effort to target particular landowners in their zeal to illegally take trophy animals. I might add that some of them are quite skilled and utilize cutting edge equipment illegally. 'Can't help but feel you're talkin' 'bout "behind the pine curtain." 'Whole differn't world over thar. He may not be talking about it, but we sure are thinking it.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8875915
06/30/23 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 951
TKM
Tracker
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 951 |
I don't owe any game warden anything he doesn't owe me for doing my job.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Creekrunner]
#8875937
06/30/23 02:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,566
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,566 |
Unfortunately realizing a high degree of success makes the successful conservationist a target of the slack jawed redneck poachers. Sadly, the committed poacher will travel great distances, and expend a lot of effort to target particular landowners in their zeal to illegally take trophy animals. I might add that some of them are quite skilled and utilize cutting edge equipment illegally. 'Can't help but feel you're talkin' 'bout "behind the pine curtain." 'Whole differn't world over thar. Indeed it is.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Creekrunner]
#8875969
06/30/23 03:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318 |
Unfortunately realizing a high degree of success makes the successful conservationist a target of the slack jawed redneck poachers. Sadly, the committed poacher will travel great distances, and expend a lot of effort to target particular landowners in their zeal to illegally take trophy animals. I might add that some of them are quite skilled and utilize cutting edge equipment illegally. 'Can't help but feel you're talkin' 'bout "behind the pine curtain." 'Whole differn't world over thar. He may be talking about that part of the world, but high end poaching is going on behind the "mesquite curtain" as well(and yall know it.) One difference is the "conservationists"/game managers/sportsmen are likely putting in even more time, money, effort into improving the quality of the game, habitat and hunting experience down there. The increased quality of the animals will draw an even more dedicated group of outlaws to take advantage of what the good guys have done(on their dime as Smokey says.) So, the Game Wardens become an even more integral part of the conservation efforts of the more dedicated sportsmen. Circling back to the OP, I will say yes, there are some bad wardens, like anything else, and possibly the open fields doctrine needs to be looked at, but in the mean time I think we need to be supportive of GWs as a whole. Once last suggestion to those that bash GWs for one or two bad encounters. Try throwing in a little support for their overall efforts/purpose/results while you are bashing the specific incident of one individual. May try it in everyday life as well. Ive heard it called "sugar rock sugar." Say something nice either side of something not so nice. The best bosses and leaders do this all the time.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: freerange]
#8876006
06/30/23 04:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,566
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,566 |
Circling back to the OP, I will say yes, there are some bad wardens, like anything else, and possibly the open fields doctrine needs to be looked at, but in the mean time I think we need to be supportive of GWs as a whole.
Once last suggestion to those that bash GWs for one or two bad encounters. Try throwing in a little support for their overall efforts/purpose/results while you are bashing the specific incident of one individual. May try it in everyday life as well. Ive heard it called "sugar rock sugar." Say something nice either side of something not so nice. The best bosses and leaders do this all the time.
I don't really see any wholesale 'bashing' of GW's going on. It's well understood that the bad actions of a few should not reflect poorly on any group as whole. We agree on that.  But it is reasonable (if not incumbent) to call out those that DO abuse their position of authority (if you value your rights). As for 'Sugar, Rock, Sugar' I don't see any need for appeasement when you have a valid complaint. I'd say that is more like 'Sugar Coating'. Sure, there are times for diplomacy.....but then again, there are times for not. No need to be wishy-washy if you have something to say.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: flintknapper]
#8876018
06/30/23 04:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,318 |
Circling back to the OP, I will say yes, there are some bad wardens, like anything else, and possibly the open fields doctrine needs to be looked at, but in the mean time I think we need to be supportive of GWs as a whole.
Once last suggestion to those that bash GWs for one or two bad encounters. Try throwing in a little support for their overall efforts/purpose/results while you are bashing the specific incident of one individual. May try it in everyday life as well. Ive heard it called "sugar rock sugar." Say something nice either side of something not so nice. The best bosses and leaders do this all the time.
I don't really see any wholesale 'bashing' of GW's going on. It's well understood that the bad actions of a few should not reflect poorly on any group as whole. We agree on that. But it is reasonable (if not incumbent) to call out those that DO abuse their position of authority (if you value your rights). As for 'Sugar, Rock, Sugar' I don't see any need for appeasement when you have a valid complaint. I'd say that is more like 'Sugar Coating'. Sure, there are times for diplomacy.....but then again, there are times for not. No need to be wishy-washy if you have something to say. Basically agree with all that. A subtle difference, I guess, would be to acknowledge the overall efforts/purpose/results of GW as a whole while also bringing up whatever valid complaint there may be. Maybe the difference would be that if a random person on the street does you wrong then you would have nothing nice to say about them so no need to sugar coat. But because of the high level of regard that most of us have towards LEO of all kinds, then I would never offer up a complaint without first offering some sort of positive mention of them as a whole. Just yesterday I ate at my favorite Tex Mex restaurant that has amazing consistency at all their many locations. The salsa was surprisingly not up to par. I brought it to their attention, not as a complaint, but just so they could correct if for others. I made that comment to them by first letting them know how much I thought of their quality and then ended by insuring I would be back all the time. Sugar rock sugar. They got that treatment because of their reputation and my previous good experiences, which is the way I look at GW and LEOs.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8876216
06/30/23 10:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,196
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,196 |
If you’re not licking their boots, you’re bashing them.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8876268
07/01/23 12:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540
spankyttx
Tracker
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 540 |
sometimes i deep throat the whole boot 
LI-SI-WI-NWI
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8876688
07/02/23 04:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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This thread is still alive I see...
Id just prefer to be left alone and they are the only LE for some reason granted the authority to meddle with law abiding folks without cause
At least have probable cause is all I ask and that is too much for some to understand
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8876802
07/02/23 03:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,342
ntxtrapper
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This thread is still alive I see...
Id just prefer to be left alone and they are the only LE for some reason granted the authority to meddle with law abiding folks without cause
At least have probable cause is all I ask and that is too much for some to understand Nobody needs probable cause to conduct an investigative stop.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8876910
07/02/23 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 951
TKM
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 951 |
This thread is still alive I see...
Id just prefer to be left alone and they are the only LE for some reason granted the authority to meddle with law abiding folks without cause
At least have probable cause is all I ask and that is too much for some to understand Nobody needs probable cause to conduct an investigative stop. Yes, you must have reasonable suspicion to conduct an investigative stop. The officer must be able to point to specific articulable facts to do so.
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8876913
07/02/23 08:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,566
flintknapper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,566 |
This thread is still alive I see...
Id just prefer to be left alone and they are the only LE for some reason granted the authority to meddle with law abiding folks without cause
At least have probable cause is all I ask and that is too much for some to understand Nobody needs probable cause to conduct an investigative stop. Correct, but 'reasonable suspicion' (a lesser level) is still required.
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8877114
07/03/23 12:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265
maximus_flavius
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265 |
If you hunt or fish you owe a debt of gratitude to the Gamewardens who are tasked with policing the resource. Whether you realize it or not, it is the sportsmen who harvest the fruit of the wardens labor. All the native wild game animals in Texas are owned by the state. That is regardless of whether on public or private property. In order for wardens to police the resource they are tasked with, requires them to go where the animals are, be it public or private. My experiences with Gamewardens has been overwhelmingly positive. I have had two encounters with wardens that were not positive. Both were young men that did not yet know their way around. Both matured into assets to have around in time. The net benefits have far outweighed the two negatives in my estimation. In light of that I always show the wardens grace, even in the rare instances they were mistaken. May your chains rest lightly. Take the blinders off Max. I seriously doubt you and I see things from the same perspective. I’m not the one with blinders
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Re: Game Wardens overstepping their bounds?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8877698
07/04/23 06:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,878
ducknbass
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Trapper would have been head gestapo in another life. Proudly.
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