Shtoopid. Just Shtoopid.

I got nothing to hide but I don’t want to have to hide anything either. To me it’s private property they should stay out. I’ve said it before had our local warden unlock our front gate using the AEP electric company lock. After he checked us all out I walked him to his truck and told him we didn’t appreciate it. He has since retired.

I have no problem with the GW. I appreciate what he does. If he wants to come by my place, no problem.

And you are afforded that right. We are also, supposedly, afforded the right to be secure in our property and possessions.

May be more to the story than was reported to create reasonable cause of wrongdoing. The guy's brother had been nailed for baiting during turkey hunting; it's possible he turned on the brother and alleged wrongdoing to lessen the heat on himself, maybe a neighbor turned on the guy. Don't think enough is known all the way around to claim foul. If none of that, May have a case of harassment by law enforcement at a minimum.

There’s no such thing as a harassment by law enforcement case.

I have always welcomed game wardens into our camp or on my property. Never had any reason not to and have never had one be disrespectful to me in any manner. I appreciate what they do - it is a tough job for sure

I've never met a game warden that I didn't like but if I found somebody camouflaged who is armed with something other than a hunting weapon sneaking around on my property they're probably going to get shot unless they can explain themselves really really quickly.

Now I’m curious what a “hunting weapon” looks like.

Bolt action rifle with a scope, large bore semi-automatic probably equipped with a scope, Big Bore revolver, a shotgun that looks like one you would hunt birds with. If it's some guy with a bolt gun I'm going to assume that he got himself lost in the woods and offer him a ride back to his truck if he needs it. Same with somebody that's obviously out hunting birds.

Edit: If your law enforcement acting within your official capacity and your actions are indistinguishable from those of a criminal it would be in your best interest to both visually and very vocally make it clear that you are law enforcement. This Deputy was killed in the line of duty when executing a no-knock warrant because his actions were indistinguishable from those of a criminal home invader. The resident at the house that killed him was no billed on the capital murder charge and the grand jury indicated that it was a self-defense killing. Right or wrong the deputy still died when there was no need for him to die.

https://www.odmp.org/officer/21892-sergeant-investigator-fredrich-adam-sowders

My problem is this idea the Justice Department can rule that "Private Property" as noted in the Fourth Amendment doesn't include your PRIVATE PROPERTY outside of your so called Curtilage. Talk about the "slippery slope". Folks who LEASE land from Fed Gov. BLM, they seem to be able to have better privacy than those owning land. and these folks are only leasing grazing/surface rights.

I can understand the idea that a GW would get permission to enter your property and look for violations outside of your domicile...but taking your property(game camera) would be considered theft in my eyes. So, when local law enforcement is the thieving party, who prosecutes the theft?

So a game warden dressed in camo with a semi auto pistol on their duty belt will get shot, but a game warden dressed in camo with an AR-10 won't?

If your appearance and behavior is indistinguishable from a criminal then yes, you're probably going to get shot before you get a chance to shoot me. Given the current Norms of society I will not knowingly murder but I will kill without hesitation . Like it or not I judge people based on their appearance until I find out otherwise. My land in Montana has nothing on it except for a cabin and there's no boundary markers so I wouldn't get too upset if I saw someone walking through and probably wouldn't even say hi. My land in Pennsylvania has been in the family for the better part of 140 years and everyone that lives out there knows the property lines so I'm probably going to jam you up even if I do so politely if I see you wondering around. The land I have straddling the US border between Mexico and Texas has nothing on it and no one there so if I see somebody I'm going to assume that they are up to no good doubly so if they are Latino and or cannot speak English.

Check out my edit to my first reply to you for clarification.

It looks like this was recent. Wasn't there a similar case a year or so ago, Ohio I think?

I'll give you an example of how things can go awry pretty quickly even if the person is claiming to be law enforcement. I have a friend named Leo that lives down by Austin on some acreage, he's a little bit eccentric , is british, and also happens to be the son of a billionaire. He lets recovering addicts live on his property until they can find somewhere else and it's kind of a little bit reminiscent of a hippie commune out there but he keeps order and will not allow consumption of hard drugs or their presence. A short time back someone showed up in the middle of the night claiming to be the police and that they had a warrant for a girl that was living on the property. This was in the dark although there is an extensive surveillance system on the property. After a few moments of interacting with the trespasser things got ugly and Leo shot him in the chest with a 12 gauge and killed him. Turns out the man claiming to be a police officer is a violent felon that just got out of prison and whose ex girlfriend was living on the property. That same man had to be taken off of the property a few weeks earlier by the Sheriff's Department and the deputies warned Leo that the guy is not to be tangled with and warned Leo not to take any chances with him if he came back. It hasn't made it to the Grand Jury yet to the best of my knowledge.

Bit of an extenuating situation given the unique situation wouldn't you admit? Not sure your story is an analogous comparison, pretty sure it's not.

I believe there are times when officers need to stand back and consider if the effort is worth the risk, both to themselves and the landowner or hunter. Going after convicted felons is one thing, but is it worth risking your life to catch a guy baiting turkeys? I'll never forget the case many years ago where a MDWFP officer was shot and killed by a guy who turned out to be the SIL of the landowner. It was around the Christmas holidays when the officer received reports the landowner had been hunting at night behind his house and went onto the property at night in an attempt to catch him in the act. The SIL had been hunting his FIL's stand and was walking back to his FIL's house when he heard movement in the brush. Being an inexperienced hunter, he fired a shot to scare off what he thought was a threat and ended up killing the officer. The SIL would later die in prison. Two men dead and families ruined over stupid deer. I have to believe if the officer had approached the SIL with a flashlight outside the brush he would likely have admitted to his actions.

For the record, I have zero problems with officers coming onto my lease at any time to make sure my actions are in compliance. However, I feel they should make sufficient effort to first identify themselves as such and not go sneaking around in the brush in an attempt to avoid detection.

had the same thing happen to us on our place in Batesville....guy was using the Medina Co-op lock to access.

After that, when we were there, the co-op lock was left out of the loop. Its one thing if they are going to be looking for poachers. Its another thing entirely if they are coming onto a private ranch thats being utilized by the landowner and their guests.



Only bad run in I've had with them was in west Texas when two rolled in on us one night at camp. only two of us there and they separated us and starting playing 20 questions. we didn't have a deer hanging, no sign of anything going on but they wanted to play good cop/bad cop, to the point where it started to get aggravating. After awhile they let up and we ended up having a decent conversation but imo it was a tad over the top.


I've been written tickets and be stopped plenty while fishing and every warden I have encountered has been nice as could be.

I made Pedernales Electric come out and take the lock off that they just decided to install one day, without notification. I explained that I go out of my way to make sure they have the combination, and any contractor going in always calls me anyway to get the combination.

The point is that there was somebody claiming to be a police officer who was sneaking around in the dark on a property. It could have actually been a police officer and my friend would have had no way of knowing. If you are law enforcement you need to clearly state that you are law enforcement and it should be very apparent to anyone looking at you that you are a law enforcement. Not doing so puts you in danger and it also puts the homeowner, leaseholder, property owner in danger. The police/ law enforcement need to do everything above board and they have no business sneaking around behaving in a manner that is indistinguishable from Criminal Behavior.

Killing someone for criminal trespass with a firearm is a one way ticket to live in a cage forever.

I wouldn't kill somebody for criminally trespassing. I would kill them because I perceive them as an armed threat to my safety. If you are law enforcement and you are sulking around without identifying yourself you are taking your life into your own hands. I've repeated this ad nauseam but I feel compelled to say it one more time that law enforcement has to be completely above board, they have to clearly identify themselves, and it needs to be readily apparent that they are law enforcement just by looking at them. Just because you are law enforcement does not mean that you get to take threatening actions against another person without it being very apparent who you are. I quoted an example of a man that killed a sheriff's deputy in Texas not too long ago and claimed it was self-defense and the grand jury no billed the capital murder charge because the officers actions were indistinguishable from a criminals actions as perceived by the homeowner. I would much prefer not to die and I would much prefer not to have to shoot somebody doubly so if it is a law enforcement officer. As a law enforcement officer you may be in the right but that won't bring you back from the dead and it won't stop the person that kills you from having to live with that. As a law enforcement officer you could also inadvertently put yourself in a circumstance where you have to use lethal Force to defend yourself when lethal Force wasn't necessary had you simply identified yourself.

Can't disagree with the clear identification thing.