For those who are interested in speeding up the accuracy process I can highly recommend getting a jar of JB bore paste and lapping the barrel. It will save you shooting a couple hundred rounds to tighten up the groups.

Bill,
What is the maximum muzzle velocity or impact velocity you would recommend for the 125 grain Xtreme Chaos Bullets? I’m building a bolt gun with a longer barrel.

Will be used for deer hunting in timber so sub 100 yard shots mostly.

Finally had the chance to use my Ham’r for its intended purpose. 130GR, Ham’r HOT-COR.

bmc, that is a nice looking Ham'r.
Cool contrasts.

Yesterday I received my order of 125gr. Xtreme Chaos bullets and loaded a few to get started on a load for my newly assembled lightweight 1/15 twist Ham'r.

Starlight cases, CCI 450 primers, and loads starting with 23.0gr of A1680 and going up to 26.2gr.

I have mostly loaded CFEBLK and had the best accuracy with moderate weight loads. We will see how the 1680 goes.

This is wild plum picking weekend, and so it will be at least next week before I get to the range.

My standard break in procedure is to mix JB Bore Paste and Kroil, then 100 to 200 strokes through the bore (using a bore guide) with a brush, then cleaning to bare metal, checking with Wipeout/Accelerator for any residue.

Then go out and shoot as many rounds as necessary to foul-in the barrel.

Works for me.

YMMV.

ya!

GWB

More velocity = Better performance on all the Controlled Chaos rifle bullets or Controlled Fracture handgun bullets

Thanks!

My standard break in procedure is to mix JB Bore Paste and Kroil, then 100 to 200 strokes through the bore (using a bore guide) with a brush, then cleaning to bare metal, checking with Wipeout/Accelerator for any residue.

Then go out and shoot as many rounds as necessary to foul-in the barrel.

Works for me.

YMMV.

ya!

GWB
[/quote


I've never understood shooting "fouling rounds". With almost no exceptions every high powered rifle I've ever owned shot best when clean and my Ham'r is no exception. Even after the barrel was broken in shooting more than about 5 rounds between cleaning causes the accuracy to decrease.

Respectfully, my reply.

Opinions vary,

Over the thirty plus years that I have been collecting firearms, I have had well over 200 center-fire rifles follow me home (not counting pistols or shotguns) and have loaded for over 100 center-fire chamberings from 17Ackley Hornet through 475 Turnbull. I figure the majority of those rifles were pre-enjoyed. Typically I clean to bare metal and go from there.

In the 90's I was much more anal about prepping brass (weight sorting, primer pocket uniforming, deburring flash holes, etc.), trickling every load, checking Max COAL length with a "Stoney Point OAL guauge (now Hornnady) and modified cartridge cases to set the distance "off the lands" and loading innumerable combinations of primer/powder/bullet/OAL combos in order to establish an accuracy/velocity/std. deviation quotient.

These days, not so much. I've developed "go-to loads for the chamberings I shoot the most. Even shoot factory fodder from time to time. I still check with a gauge the Max COAL, but find that on factory bolt rifles and particularly AR’s, magazine dimensions trump Max COAL.

FWIW, an example



Merkel K3 Extreme, bought new/unfired.



JB Bore Paste/Kroil ritual



Shots 1 & 2 @ 25 yds. to get on paper, using 150 gr. Loads developed for another rifle.



Shots 3, 4 & 5 @100 yds.




Over the years I’ve developed “go to” loads for the chamberings I shoot the most.

For the 270 Win. My “go to” load is 130 Gr Ballistic Tips/Accubonds over 60 gr. H4831 SC



Shots 6, 7 & 8, switching to 130 gr. Ballistic tips.



Shots 9, 10 & 11

Anywho "fouling in" works for me.

I shoot at the Pearland Shooters Club, mainly at Range #4 which is the "bench rest range".

Quite often I'm the first there in the AM, consequently I end up being the "Range Officer", and as such I have to pay attention to what everyone is doing.

I see guys that will come out, some doing barrel break in others shooting groups.

One of the things I have come to believe is that many folks over-clean their barrels.

They will shot 3 to 5 shots and clean, over and over. Quite often when the range is called "cold" and they retreive thier targets you can see, or hear them say that they can't get their rifle to group.
my belief is that they do not give the barrel a chance to foul-in.

I find that on numerous rifles there is no appreciable degradation of accuracy after 70-100 rounds.

FWIW, here are a couple examples of rifles that had been fired numerous times before each range session.


I had benchmarked this Cooper M21, Varmint Extreme the day before using a load that I knew to be accurate, but I wanted to test to see which primer gave the best accuracy/velocity quotient of the 7 different primers I had available.



The barrel was allowed to cool for a designated period of time before the next group was fired. Only 40 rounds this session, but I saw no noticeable degradation of accuracy.



That rifle has since followed someone else home, but IIRC, I stayed with the CCI 400 primed loads.

One more, a Cooper M22, Classic, 6BR Remington.



+/- 42 rounds this session, different bullets and powder combos.

Once again, your mileage may vary!

Best,

GWB

On average I probably clean my barrels every 200rds and I've never noticed any substantial accuracy change. I do typically shoot a couple fouling shots after cleaning.

I guess what really matters is what works for you and what your accuracy standards are. While I say my accuracy decreases the more rounds are shot I'm talking going from dime size groups to nickel or quarter size groups after shooting a box or two of ammo. Still very good and quite acceptable for hunting purposes. I've also noticed my pistols are more affected than my rifles and it's not uncommon for the pistol groups to go from 2 inches to 6 inches at 25 yards after a 100 rounds or so.

Now that my barrel is broken in the only time I get anal about cleaning is when working up a new load and then I clean and cool after every 5 rounds. The rest of the time I clean every 3 or 4 magazines. I also try to shoot 1 round after cleaning an AR type rifle for a function verification after witnessing one that went click rather than bang because the cotter pin in the BCG was installed wrong.

A few years ago, I was an active grandmaster in USPSA in both open and limited class. There was a 2 year period where I shot 100,000 rounds a year each year, so I have a little experience with pistol accuracy and have shot out a couple of pistol barrels.

My SV Infinity open guns were capable of around 2" five shot groups at 50 yds depending on the load. I have NEVER seen accuracy degradation in a 500 round practice session even when the gun got so hot that it was very warm to hold. Many times I went 1000 - 1500 rds between cleanings with no noticeable affect on accuracy. Same principle with my limited guns as well.

Bottom line, there is something else going on with your loads or procedures that is influencing your results, because 100 rounds downrange shouldn't affect accuracy one bit in a handgun.

+1 I can't remember the last time I cleaned the barrel of my main range guns.

That kind of accuracy issues at 100 rounds would be due to lead build up. Specifically pushing soft lead too fast. At least that was my experience.

WWDJonesDo …

I have a feeling that legendary pig killers like Djones clean once a year, possibly by accident.

His cleaning regime probably involves using spilt pig blood and a piece of whataburger paper sack as a patch.

Just guessin’

At the risk of flogging a dead horse I would submit that a custom open gun is a totally different animal than an over the counter gun with the exception of maybe a Colt Gold Cup of which mine gets cleaned once a decade whether it needs it or not. With one of my pistols after much experimenting I traced the accuracy issue to a gunk buildup under the extractor which caused the bullets to seat crooked. With rifles it's usually a matter of the bore not being totally smooth which is why I always lap mine...and if the barrel is "rough" then a few fouling rounds might be in order to "smooth" things out.

Just to get this moving back in the right direction, About the only time I clean one of the 300 HAM'Rs is when I am doing load testing. Especially when I'm going between jacketed bullets and solids.
Any difference between "just cleaned" and "well used" is hardly noticeable. .

What sort of solids are you shooting? I wasn't aware there was anything but jacketed bullets available for the Ham'r.

I would also like to clarify my position on accuracy (and this will be my final word so no need to flame me) so you don't think I'm some sort of fanatic internet troll. I agree with everything that has been said but what I was talking about was ultimate achievable accuracy rather than acceptable accuracy. While my Ham'r will shoot 1.5 inch or better groups all day long no matter how many rounds I put through it...when it is clean the first 3 to 5 round group can be covered by a dime.

I would also like to thank Mr. Wilson for developing such a versatile round. I haven't experimented with the light weight "varmint" bullets but everything I've shot from 125 to 150 grains has been very accurate!

PP - i'm obsolete in this thread now. it's only about guns, loads and group size. only a few of us old has beens are interested in killin stuff anymore. heck im so out of touch i still use 125tnts!! fwiw, i have used the dip stick to oil the bcg more than once.

mini clip for attention...

Thank goodness I'm not the only old timer that uses actual oil on the BCG! I had assumed the "millennials" or whatever they're calling themselves these days have migrated to non fossil fuel lubes. I would like to ask what distance were you shooting in that video?

I have grown very fond of the Lehigh bullets. The 110 gr and 125 gr CC bullets will make a mess of anything they hit.
The TNT's and the 130 gr HC both work well for range practice and average hunting, but when I want something "Deader than Dead" I'll load a batch of the Lehigh 125 gr CC.
It is nothing uncommon for me to step out my door and have a bear in the yard, and this load is always on standby should anything or anyone decided to come in the door.



.

with a 4.5x scope, pigs look closer than they are. i am rarely able to sneak up closer than 100 yards without getting busted. these are 125gr tnt pigs. they aren't deader than dead. just dead.

Struck me kinda funny. I can tell from the picture which one was the first one shot. All the rest were on the run!

yessir. the earholio is a dead giveaway, lol