Well that would be awesome!

what is the process for MLD. Easy or hard to get?

I dunno.

GIVE ME A BREAK. Granted TPWD has a problem with their survey scientific methods. Like sampling county (small scale) and reporting those findings by region (much larger). WMI busted them for that.

Finding from a third party review of TPWD Scientific methods:


I never mentioned them sampling every ranch in every county.

God I wish they would put their "science" behind this regulation up against a third party evaluation. Most of their profs, at aTm would fail 'em if they did that kinda work in their school career. (Lots of these desk jockey, biologist, managers are aggies)

and

I still am of the opinion the MLDP should not be used as an out for a faulty regulation. Simple as that !!

you ont get flamed, but you will have to give everyone keys to your house, frig/freezer, pool and car... if you get to have access to their property they should have access to yours also. [/quote]

I meant open the gate to let some of the deer out. Besides, if i gave the keys to my stuff for their stuff, i would come out ahead!

There wasn't any problem in my area, before.
Age Structure was fine. (barf)

Still don't see a problem, yet. But I expect it to change as narrow racked bucks become more prevelent, and young 13"ers get wacked... in future generations. To early to tell. Hunting pressure isn't tooo bad, in our area either.

Hopkins County always allowed the 2 antlerless during Archery Season matter of fact, all seasons combined, plus the buck could be taken in any deer season.

There's a huge misconception that so many either think or believe that only 1 antlerless can be taken during the Archery Only season and that's not true, if the county has an open season for white-tailed deer, you may take your 2 antlerless during the Archery Only season without a permit (still must be tagged from your license) unless you are hunting on land that is under the Managed Lands Deer Permits or MLDP.

Hope this clears it up a bit.

Been living in hopkins co 23yrs and dont remember it ever being 2 does during archery but i am getting old! LOL.

Hoyt,

I think what he was saying is that during archery if it was 1-buck & one doe. If the buck tag was "buck or anterless" that COULD be second doe.

That's the way i took it anyway. Never hunted Hopkins, though.

During the Archery Only Season, if you want to take your bag limit for that county, you can legally with archery equipment.

If the county is a 5 deer, no more than 3 bucks, all seasons combined, you can take all 5 during Archery Season if you want with archery equipment.

Which now includes crossbows......

Now i see what ya mean! Curly i just ordered a crossbow for the wife. Might even get lucky! NAW wishfull thinking.

Don't give up Hoytman! Wait till she see it and shoots it!

JMO, but controlling deer numbers is more about shooting does than harvesting bucks. One buck can breed many does and apparently they are based on you guys' field observations. I also see in the regs this year that you can shoot 5 does in Mills County. Get after it.

Got the oposite problem, too many does getting shot in my co. and the population is crashing around my place.

Are hogs a problem?

Always! Its weird some days there all over then may not see any or tracks for a month. Hopefully they will be there when i see ya, and will check before i make ya drive out there. Got 460 pics on game cam in 7 days and half were hogs. then coons and a few deer and only one buck!

Sounds to me like the TP&W needs to quit worrying about how to "manage" our deer and worry about eliminating the hog/coon problem!!

AMEN BROTHER!!!

I'm from Lee county originally, one of the first of the 6 antler restrictions counties. I've hunted there my whole life and so has my entire family uncles cousins, etc. We have seen more bucks, older bucks, and larger bucks since the antler restrictions put in place about 7-10 years ago now I don't remember how long it's been. My uncle has not shot but has had deer shot around him on each property that scored between 140-165 over the last 3 years. we still see lots of does. A deer population is a function of the habitat you give it not just the harvest recommendations put on it.

As far as the spike argument and the waxing of young deer it's each hunters individual choice. The only reason TPWD put the spike tag in their is so people who don't see 13" plus bucks the first few years of the restrictions due to a terrible age structure or lack of deer numbers would at least have the opportunity to harvest one deer.

You all have brought up some valid points in your arguments. However to call the methods TPWD uses to estimate deer densities and recommendations unscientific without knowing what goes into it exactly is a little unwarranted. Texas has one of the largest and best managed deer populations in the country. Ask Pennsylvania if you want real deer management problems between agency and constituents. Your right though not all harvest recommendations are based on scientific data because there has to be a human factor considered. You have voiced your opinion on the subject very well, and I'm sure I will be shouted down for speaking otherwise. The antler restrictions work in my opinion or at least in the corner of Lee county I hunt. Curly the reason you may have only gotten 3 doe permits every year is because the number of permits issued is a function of doe/buck ratio, fawn crop and how many deer need to be taken to balance the buck:doe ratio. If you only saw 4 deer last year 3 does and a buck then you would have to harvest 2 doe to balance the ratio. at 1:1 or at least 1 doe to make it 2:1. If you saw no fawns or yearlings that should tell you something about the habitat maybe being a problem

Welcome to the discussion, No shouting here.




Well we've been seeing old bucks, large bucks, for years, and years WITHOUT ARs.



AGE STRUCTURE IS A MADE UP PROBLEM !!! Lack of deer numbers should be taken care of by the number of tags issued.



I know quite a bit about what is going on. And Texas was one of the larsest and best deer hunting states in the country BEFOR THE ARs. !!!! Partly, Due to the freedoms in the old regs NOT the ARs.

So you're sayin that maybe it just so happens the reason folks like us are seeing less deer now is that the habitat is going downhill and it just so happens to be coinciding with the length of time the ARs have been in place? I doubt that.

Were Texas deer herds really in need of AR management......REALLY? Were we hurting that badly? In the words of Ron White, "I don't think so Scooter".......

Hey Curly,

Now that sounds like a TPWD scientific conclusion.

NICE,


(Hope they don't see this.)
Koyote don't give 'em any ideas.

Curly I can't speak for the area you hunt. However, speaking down to me does nothing to further your argument. Only lower my opinion of you. Also apparently you are hurting that bad with the number of deer you've said you've been seeing.

I know in the area I hunt the deer numbers were bad. That something different needed to be done. Our county was 1 buck only during gun and 1 buck 2 does during archery before AR's. It has helped, and judging by where Bosque county is (if I remember right that's where you hunted) you have probably had a large number of people coming from Ft. Worth moving into the area chopping up habitat, converting to non-native pasture grasses, eliminating habitat for numbers of deer, and reducing fawning cover. That could be your problem not the AR's. Age structure is not a made up problem. Age structure of animals harvested is recorded by all MLD properties and from surveys at processing plants (like you said earlier PHish) and from check in stations. If they are all relatively hitting in the same area then obviously there are less 4.5+ age deer in an area than there would be in a healthy herd. Regulations aren't changed on a whim and they surely aren't changed due to politics it's a long drawn out procedure as anyone who has gone to the public comment meetings could tell you. The deal is in the new counties TPWD is implementing these regulations they aren't doing public opinion because the process has been overwhelmingly approved by hunters in surveys and meetings in other counties that it has already been done. I don't think the AR's will be around for a long time maybe 10-15 years before it will change just like all the other restrictions we've ever seen for deer harvests.