I hope Carl Gustaf starts offering HAMR in a short barrel Goose

In the mean time, maybe I’ll just embrace it as it was developed.

[insert grttiutous Vmax carnage here]




Good lort, those 110vmax are pretty rough hombres on pigs that aren’t giants

New ham'r shooter here. A few weeks ago, I found out about this cartridge then this forum and read the entire thing over a few days. Lots of great info. I jumped in with both feet and put together an upper with a 16" 1:13 twist recon barrel. After reading everything that I could about it, I gathered a couple boxes of Wilson's 130 hot cor loaded ammo. Also wanted to hanload so I picked up cci 450 primers, cfe blk powder, 135 ftx bullets, and made brass from once fired LC 556 brass. I'm not new to reloading but have only loaded for bolt guns so I'm new to the AR scene. I finally had a chance to shoot it yesterday. I fired some factory 130 rounds through it. Velocity was as expected but accuracy wasn't great. I decided to work up a load with the 135ftx. It seemed to group a little better but I noticed I was getting some primer cratering at 25.5 grains with a Velocity of 2267fps. Not being happy with the Velocity, I pushed on. According to March 22 Wilson data, max load for this round is 26.5 grains. At max load, I have very flat primers, no smearing of headstamp and a Velocity of 2376. Also at max load, the powder is so compressed that when seating the bullet, it pushes the bullet out .005 longer. My brass starts out at a diameter of .305 so neck tension should be fine. Sorry for the long post but trying to get all info out there up front. So two questions 1: is it normal to have a very flat primer and still not reach published velocity? 2: is it normal for the powder to be that compressed at max load?

is this the first firing after converting the brass or had it been full fire formed previously?

Something to consider as well, all of my WC barrels picked up significant velocity gains after getting 100+ rounds through them.

First firing. I'm only at 50-60 rounds so far. I'm hoping accuracy picks up with round count as well.

Glad you decided on a 300 Ham'r. It is a wonderful cartridge. Now on to your questions... My answers are just my experience.

You should get at least 200 rounds through the barrel before doing any accuracy assessment. Some barrels shoot better squeaky clean. Some do better dirty and some inbetween. Just don't be in a hurry. It's a good time to do load development and enjoy the rifle.

It is very hard to go over pressure with the 300 Ham'r and CFEBLK. Mostly because you just can't get enough powder in. You can use a drop tube. After the drop tube you can vibrate the cases (carefully) and watch the powder setting deeper in the case. My Dremel motor vibrates enough to hold it under a tray full of cases to settle them in a few minutes. Then there is enough room. You will have less room with Starline cases than the WC brass. A little powder compression hurts nothing.

If your primers on the factory ammo came out fine then the problem is your converted brass has too much headspace. I have never made 300 Ham'r brass from 5.56 but have read that it must be fireformed before it's ready for normal loads. Chances are excessive headspace allowed the case to be too far forward in the chamber and the primer had room to back out a bit and be flattened. Note the headspace on your fired factory cases and those will have the shoulder you need for measuring proper shoulder space.

Don't know about your neck tension but be sure the inside necks are free of any oil or lubricant.

Guess that is it. Let is know your progress..

Does anyone have any pictures of what your primers look like running at or near max powder charges? I read where Bill typically gets best accuracy at the high end of things. Obviously I want all of the velo and accuracy that I can get but want to be safe doing it. I plan on my 9 yr old taking his first hog/deer with it this year.

Thanks for the info!

Actually, you do. You made the wise decision to shoot some factory ammo first. It is loaded very near the top.

Unfortunately, at 26.5 grains, my primer is much more flat than factory. Maybe once all of my cases are fireformed, I will revisit trying a higher load.

You will get higher pressure with un fireformed cases made from 5.56 cases and keep in mind we see quite a bit of difference in volume and burn rate with CFEBLK, some lots have a much less bulk and give much higher pressure/velocity. With slow bulky lots it's hard to get enough powder in the case for full pressure loads shooting bullets weighing 135gr or heavier. An exception would be the Sierra 135gr HP-V which builds pressure scarry fast, NEVER exceed 2375fps with this bullet from a 16" barrel, I load to 2350fps for my guns and it still kills light lightning.

Here's what my primers look like at 55-56k PSI pressure with Sig mfg nickel cases.

Thanks for the info Bill. Part of what sold me on this cartridge is the fact that the creator of it is so active in helping others succeed with it. My primers are much flatter than yours. For now I will just fireform near starting pressure then revisit higher velocity later. Also, I read where you shortened the tip on 160 ftx so it would fit magazine length and still have good velocity. Would I gain any speed by doing the same to the 135 ftx and seat at the bottom of the canilure for more room for powder?

Another poster on this very thread turned me on to the deadfoot arms stock. Have a little over 300 rounds through it with zero hiccups. Standard AR bolt carrier cut down with proprietary spring mechanism. Runs like a freakin' top. Maybe not as cool as the MCX style but 100% reliable, compact, and ready for prime time.

I thought when Bill partnered with Sig for SAAMI certification on 300 HAM'R, Sig would start pouring out all kinds of models in HAM'R. I would definitely be up for a Sig Rattler with 6.5 to 7" barrel. Would be an excellent replacement for the 300Blk version. Still here I wait.

My guess is that as result of COVID and subsequent firearm industry panic/shortage, the industry has been disrupted since Feb/March 2020. Every manufacturer’s focus has been simply on meeting demand for existing product lines and focusing efforts on key cartridges (9mm, 223/5.56, and 308 Win). It is just going to take some time for industry to stabilize before manufacturers have free space in their production schedules to pursue secondary product offerings.

Give it a little more time and you will no longer be a first-mover into a wildcat.

We do a lot of collaboration work with Sig and I've pushed them to chamber the M400 in HAM'R and to load more than the one production run of ammo they have done. But it's the same answer I get from other companies "we have so much demand for the most popular calibers now is not the time". I do understand their situation, heck you still can't go out and easily find "common calibers" like .243 and .30-30 yet.

WC has had several loads consistently available through the entire China virus and panic buy, we never ran out of in-stock ammo. After 9mm it's our 2nd best selling caliber by volume.

Finally had a chance to take the ham'r out and not only did I get something first time out, I got my first double with one bullet! 130 hot cor did the trick. Went through the shoulders of pig one without hitting any big bone then went into pig #2 just in front of the shoulder and into heart/lungs (pig was quartering to me) and stayed somewhere in the chest cavity. I tried to recover the bullet but it was getting late and needed to get the meat on ice so I gave up. Pig #1 was DRT, pig #2 dropped then got up and made it another 10 yds before expiring.

Does anyone have any experience with Lee dies seating 130 hot cor bullet very crooked? I didn't notice this problem with the 135 ftx.

I have used Lee dies on the 130 grain Hot Cor and have never noticed any crookedness. Of course I've only loaded them into Starline cases. One thing you might try is running the case and bullet into the seating die just enough to start the bullet into the case, bring the case back out of the die and rotate it 90 degrees either direction and run it all the way in for a final seat.

Sorry - this is a bit long and maybe some is repeat of past posting. Not much gets written about doing case forming / case conversion using a progressive press. Now that I have the process completely sorted out, I thought I would do a quick update on converting .223 cases into 300 HAM'R using a progressive press and Dillon RT1500 Case Trimmer. This is just a different way to forming 300 HAM'R cases without using a mini-chop saw. A little bit of set up time and then 2 quick pulls on the press handle and I have a completed case ready to load... I need to justify the equipment that I already own!

At present the biggest challenge is selection of a Trim Die. If you have access to a 7.62x40 WT Triim Die (made by CH4D Custom Dies) then you have a simple path. If you don't then the next production run has been scheduled by CH4D and the trim dies will be available for purchase ($90) in the 2024 (2 year backlog). If you want to design a custom trim die for 300 HAM'R it will cost $200 and it is still a 2 year wait. The quickest solution is to use a 300BO Trim Die, which are widely available.

The challenges with 300BO Trim Die are:
1) Case Length Difference - 300BO is approx. 1/4" shorter than 300HAM'R and so is the Trim Die. The 300BO Trim Die must be set up long (lower portion of case won't get sized). Running the newly formed case through the 300HAM'R FL Sizing Die takes care of sizing the lower portion of the case.

2) Neck Length Difference - 300BO is longer than 300HAM'R and so is the Trim Die. When 300BO Trim Die is set up to form new shoulder in proper location for 300HAM'R, the Dillon Case Trimmer can't cut the neck short enough to match 300HAM'R specs.

3) Case Spinning / Damage by Trimmer - Trim Die profile (case body) is larger than the .223/5.56 case body) so there is limited friction hold to stop the case from spinning in the die once the cutter engages the case mouth.

The free-spinning case issue is well-known from 300BO case forming. For 300 Blackout the common solution is to jam the case hard into the Dillon Trimmer in an attempt to quickly remove the .223 case neck. Once this material has been removed the 300BO trim die engages the .223 case body and starts compressing it to form the new case neck on the 300BO, which provided a solid friction hold so no more case spinning. However, the 300HAM'R neck is formed from a portion of the the neck and tapered shoulder of the .223 so there is no chance to form a friction hold. The solution is to expand the case neck out to .308 in advance of trimming. I set up a tool head with expander mandrels... also could use existing dies on hand with different sized expander buttons/balls. I chose a Lyman Pro Trim Die ($50) over a couple of other 300BO dies because it had a smaller neck OD, which created a better friction hold on the expanded necks of the .223/5.56 cases.

To solve the neck trim length issue (too long in the 300BO Trim Die), I took the Lyman Pro 300BO Trim Die to Porter Precision and had them bore out 0.100" from the top of the case Mouth (cutting deck). Now I can trim cases to any length and also have additional/free clearance below the cutter head to aid chip removal. By modifying an existing trim die, I was able to move forward with case forming without a 2 year waiting period.

@Smoked Prok

I really appreciate the detailed write up of forming on a progressive. I actually just took to Blue Kool-Aid plunge myself, I even snagged an RT1500 with all sorts of trim dies. I was hoping there'd be an easier route.. But after reading all that's involved I think I'll stick with my normal routine. I chop, SSM tumble, and now I'll be able to take advantage of my XL750's case feeder, progressive expanding/sizing, and finish off on one of my drill press mounted rotary trimmers.. Perhaps down the road Dillon or CH4D will get on board and offer a legit size/time die. I'm really just excited to spend less time loading and more time shooting



On a good note.. Here's some 16.7¢ Hornady 110gr VMax Pulldowns (Use code "1776" at checkout for 30% off)
https://americanreloading.com/30-caliber-308/3510-308-110gr-fb-red-tip-500ct.html

Glad the write-up helped. I made it home so I now can upload some photos. I have played with doing the .223 / 5.56 to 300HAM'R conversion on both a Dillon 1050 and Dillon 650... both work just fine. This is the Lyman Pro 300BO Trim Die before and after being modified. I could only get it to cut case down to 1.634" before modifying (lowered cutting deck down to 1.530"). Porter Precision Products - Link



I found an upgraded vacuum manifold for the Dillon Case Trimmer that improves removal of the metal shavings and reduces bird nesting within the trim die / cutter head. It has additional air inflow ports incorporated in the design. I bought it on EBay. Upgreaded Dillon Trimmer Maniforld (EBay) - Link


The process of expanding the neck and shoulder in advance is pretty easy using incremental neck-up dies. I am using three neck-up dies (.223-6mm, 6mm-6.5mm, and 6mm-.30 cal.). Neck-Up Expander Mandrels - Link


The group on the left side is the donor cases sent through the neck-up expanders. The group on the right is the donor cases sent through the neck-up die and immediately sent through 300HAM'R Sizing Die to show you where shoulder will ultimately be formed.


I anneal the cases before starting the expansion process resulting in low failure rate (2%). If you don't anneal (brass to hard to expand) or if you over-anneal (excessive...soften brass too much) then necks will collapse during expansion.


The ones that split had serious issues (deep cut nicks from feed ramp or split necks) that become enlarged under pressure of expansion.


No more headaches or OCD .... now to just crank out a few thousand cases for friends!!!

I am not knocking anyone who is doing this Old School with either a Harbor Freight Mini-chop Saw or WFT... or any other DIY process they have engineered. A few years back when 300BO was new and there were no components, I converted close to 10K cases into 300BO. I wore out my hands holding onto cases while doing finish trimming with a WFT. I decided to try something different this go-round without needing to hold or handle a case any more than necessary.

I did some tests / played with different ways to form the cases. By trimming off the majority of the neck (chop saw) it may reduce split neck issue, but I think annealing makes the biggest impact. The split necks that I encountered were usually catastrophic failures (previous post pic) and I was not upset to throw them in the recycle can. There were a few case splits that were very clean and most likely the result of a minor split or nick at the leading edge of the case mouth. They look like tuxedos shirts and just need a bow tie.

Sorry - I meant to include this comment/observation in prior post and now unable to go in an edit it. Work hardened brass can be a real issue during both the initial case forming and then during loading of the newly formed case. Cases that are not annealed can be hard (not malleable), resist expanding, and experience a greater amount of spring-back.

A friend had some issues with 300 HAM'R cartridges that his hunting buddy had loaded. The 300 HAM'R cases were converted Lake City range brass that he trimmed down with a mini-chop saw and then ran through the 300 HAM'R FL Sizing Die. These cases were confirmed "good" using a Wilson Combat Case Gage. These cases were not annealed, neither before or after forming. After loading them there was a slight outward bulge just bellow the bullet that he didn't notice until afterwards (no longer fit in case gage). The bulging was actually the neck/shoulder attempting to collapse as the bullet was being seated into the case. It was only a "minor" bulge because the walls of the die (cartridge profile) stopped the case from buckling outward more severely. Either the neck I.D. was too narrow or the brass was to hard to expand... either way the bullet could not fit inside the case easily leading to partial case collapse. There is also the outside chance that it was a wall thickness issue, but unlikely with it being Lake City brass.

I have been blasting away with the ham'r some using the cases I made from 556 cases. basically fire forming them. most of them fire fine, but I've been getting some that fail to go off. I am assuming that it is excessive headspace due to the un-fire-formed cases. do you think that is correct?

also, I have been getting inconsistent ejection. I'm using an adjustable gas block trying to tune it down as low as it will go. it was just barely locking the bolt back and I though I was winning. then I could get a couple rounds fail to lock the bolt back. so I'd open up the bolt a quarter turn. couple rounds work fine, then failure to lock back or cycle. open it up, try again. I had to open it up a turn and a half from teh first time I locked the bolt back to get it to lock back and cycle every time. not sure what's going on there.

franken gun. stag LH upper and bolt, jp captured buffer, wojtek AGB,
load is 25.1grn of 1680 under a 125grn tnt. un-fire-formed LC 556 cases.

Inconsistent ignition is usually 1 of 3 things.
1) Excess headspace (shoulder to far back) - If the newly-formed cases look "good" in the Case Gage then usually not headspace. However, it is possible that unformed shoulder is getting pushed back by the force of BCG slamming forward loading the cartridge.
2) Weak firing pin spring (bolt rifle) or Weak Hammer Spring (AR15) - I know this sounds funny, but check the orientation of the hammer spring. I have seen it installed backwards which results in an anemic amount of force or if you have done a "reduced" trigger pull tweak (clipping/removing some of the hammer spring leg material).
3) Short Firing Pin - this is rare but happens on occasion.

I usually dial back my gas setting until point where AR15 reliably lock open on empty mag and also fully ejects and loads next round. Once I find the minimum setting, I then open up the gas block 2 additional clicks to ensure reliability. The inconsistent function may indicate that you are having gas flow issues. Are you sure that your gas block is centered over the gas port?