Wytex, though I have never met you I have always respected your advice, information and recommendations on this forum. With the recent 90/10 bill for WY being signed by the Governor, as a Non-resident, the chance of drawing a tag for one of the “big 5” as they refer to it is simply over unless you already have 20+ points. Sure I would have loved to draw a sheep tag some day but honestly don’t have much interest in the other 4.

What my major concern is the further reach of applying this to Deer/Elk/Antelope in the not too distant future. From discussions I have seen, if this also passes basically you’ll be almost obligated to a guided hunt or paying a landowner for a tag. There are worse things that could happen and as I get older I become less and less interested in 100% DIY, but I still have some youth in me. A true DIY hunt in WY maybe a thing of the past very very soon the way I am interpreting the possible implications of this being passed.

Curious to hear your thoughts as well as recommendations for us Non-Resident hunters. If you would rather PM me that’s fine to. Figured others might garner some knowledge from you as well.

Thanks.

Only way this changes is if they do away with Auction Sheep tags. The NR draw takes $ means nothing compared to the auction tags.

It’s stinks because everyone is changing NR % and capping

This year I'll have 11 deer points which i might draw and they changed the area I want to 13 points. WTF??
I'll be 66 in May time isn't on my side.

Angus the 90/10 doesn't affect deer... yet. If it looks like it changed to take 13 points that is point creep catching up-- happening all over WY and western states as more folks start applying out west.

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Im very interested on Wytex's thoughts on this as well.

Seems like resident hunters and outfitters have plenty of pull to make things happen-- like the BS of needing a guide in wilderness areas... and now the 90/10.

I would be most interested to see the budget workup and how they spun it to get passed. I can't imagine the loss of revenue through G&F from reduced NR applications and tags could be balanced even with price increases. And I'd be interested to see how they measured future effects on local economies from reduced non-resident use.

I guess we will see how well they did their homework and how sustainable it will be.

My


It’s minimal tags since it’s only the big 5 tag species . It essentially reduced it by 10% so I’m betting less then 20 tags.

All they have to do is take one tag out of pool and go auction and it’s 20x the revenue

This starts in 2023. This impacts the big 5 (Bison, Sheep, Goat, Moose). My chances where still small trying to draw a tag, especially for me who started applying 8 yrs ago. However, I had been putting in for both my sons since day one as well and they would have been in really good shape to draw out as they were older. That’s history now. Bison, it’s a crap shoot, last couple of years they never migrated out of the park so it’s unlikely you would ever get a shot at one. Still the adventure would be fun. Mtn goat was really the only one of the group I felt where you could draw a tag and have success.

My bigger concern is their current discussion to have this also include Elk, Deer and Antelope in the not to far off future. The ground work is already there, but they are still discussing how to set it up. In all honesty, if I were hunting Elk I would likely use an outfitter anyways so it could actually be a positive change as the outfitters would be getting more tag allocations under the new system than currently. At least that’s my interpretation of the proposed changes. I might have read that wrong. But for mule deer and antelope I would wouldn’t mind going at it DIY. It’s really the DIY guys that get screwed. I guess the biggest question to figure out is do you burn your points now, prior to the addition of Elk, Deer and Antelope. Lots of unknown at this point.

I’ve only been doing PP deer/elk and MG for a while now. I think I stopped BH/Moose a while back, for a Sirus it’s easier just got to Canada

Well, I'm torn on it.
I'm all for residents having a bigger piece of the pie but I see how NR who have been planning on drawing, due to their PP, are getting the short end.
I will say this, if you read the disclaimer on the WG&F website it plainly states that buying or having PP does not guarantee you a license, just a better chance at drawing one.
I hate PPs for residents and NR frankly.

For the Big 5 they are planning to go to Bonus Points, convert your PP to bonus points and put all point holders in the same draw, maybe do away with the random draw.
Once it goes to bonus points I think lower point holders will actually have slightly better odds to draw, I could be way wrong on that though. I'm not real familiar with bonus point systems.

D,E, A may well go 90/10 also mainly because pronghorn numbers are down and residents want more chances to draw those licenses and deer are in the same boat.
As residents the vast majority do not want PP for any more species , we favor the random draws and that lends to us wanting better odds to draw. We can't plan on when we'll draw like NR can with their PP so we want more licenses available to us in the 1st draw.

Personally I would be in favor of say 15 or 20% hard quota for NR in their draw.
I want the under allocated Resident licenses rolled into the leftover pool or into a 2nd draw for residents before the NR draw. That way we get access to draw the total amount of licenses we are allowed by law.
Yes, I know that sounds greedy but I would love to get to hunt mule deer and whitetails every year along with pronghorn.

The 90/10 proposal for E,D,A is mainly for the LQ licenses, which would be all pronghorn and only LQ deer and elk. General elk licenses would actually increase in numbers for NR under this proposal.

Outfitter set asides are a real problem for Residents, as are transferrable landowner licenses. We do not want them and are fighting that proposal.
Frankly most of us feel you should all have the same draw, no special and regular and no outfitter draw.

By the way that "Eastman's" article is pretty iffy if you ask me on their numbers and they have put out iffy info before.

This page has some good links to studies and proposals brought to the Wildlife Task Force that is making theses recommendations: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/meeting-materials

The way point creep has been happening I just Don’t expect to draw much if anything in the future. If I did I look at it like a one-off hunt.

You can thank social media and internet celebrities for the increase in traffic

I appreciate your reply. I am not of the opinion that since I applied I have a claim. I might feel a little different if I had 20+ years worth of points, As you stated and as does the website claim, it simply increases your odds. Does it suck, yea it does. I hate it more for my sons than for me. I never really had a shot. But they’d would have had a likely great one down the road, but then again, with point creep maybe they wouldn’t.

If I were a resident I would likely be of the same opinion as you for residents and tag allocations. It does make sense. In the end someone is going to get bent over and it shouldn’t be the residents. If NR’s want to play, great, but we aren’t entitled to anything and should expect to pay to play. I am okay with that. But, in the same breath you hate to see it become a “rich man’s” activity where many aren’t able to pay to play.

I don’t obviously have the answers. Seems like it’s still ambiguous as to what is going to be the final solution. To apply or not to apply, that is the question.

On state owned land, I agree.

On BLM or Nat. Forest land, I don’t believe there aught to be any split between residents or non residents. Those lands are upkept and managed thru our federal tax dollars, not state income tax or sales tax. Federal land is just as much mine as it is someone living 10 miles away from the forest.


The way it’s weighted now if I wanna hunt many of the western states I’m gonna have to either pay thru outfitters or landowner tags if I want a realistic shot at getting a tag.

I was lucky. I started hunting out of state in the late 60's. There were no points. You went and bought a license and hunted. By the time I lost interest in Co. And N.M. there were still no points but the amount of blaze orange you saw made it not that enjoyable anymore.

Its starting to get that way again. The last few times I went to Colorado for OTC it was insane the amount of people there. First time i went to the unit in 2015 it wasn't crowded at all.

All it does is increase out of state poaching, people won't put up with this if they want to hunt in a state in their lifetime they're gonna hunt and not wait until they are gray and old to draw a tag. They don't have the manpower to enforce and your chances of getting caught are slim and none. If the rules were more reasonable your more likely to have a larger percentage of the population to follow them, once they get so asinine Joe public says F it.

I only see this as benefitting those who can pay or are willing to pay more to hunt. I am a little different in that I have kin in Wyoming and have hunted there on and off for decades. I have killed a moose, many elk, deer and antelope with the help of my family pointing the way. I wouldn't pay so much extra to hunt where I have hunted in the past because of these changes, and where I never needed a guide. I will just scale back what I hunt for in Wyoming to where the price point seems reasonable. It will lessen my opportunities because of cost.

txtrophy, those animals you want to hunt belong to the state of Wyoming . Residents pay those same taxes too. You are more than welcome to come up and recreate all you want but you better have a license to hunt in Wyoming.
That has ben litigated and it is so.
Texas pay no more in taxes on federal land than residents of Wyoming, how much do you pay in state roads taxes to get to those federal lands?
All of the NF is open for recreation come on up but your argument about having the same rights to animals on federal lands is moot. They are held in trust for the residents of Wyoming.

I don't like to exorbitant fees NRs have to pay for some licenses, it affects me too. I have 3 moose PP in Colorado and 7 weighted PP, I just quit applying for moose due to odds and price. No griping, just let them go.

I feel like NR and residents need to work with G&F agencies to get better habitat and animals numbers up to support both sides having adequate numbers to hunt..
If our populations continues to grow, albeit very slowly, then our future generations need to be thought of , not just NRs youth.. Wildlife is a finite resource and if numbers are not up then someone is not going to get the licenses they want, I believe residents should come first when allocating for a down resource.

Wyoming has been very generous to NRs in the past with the number of licenses we allocate. Now residents are looking around and saying with numbers down we want more of the available pie.
Like I said Colorado is going down the same path, residents there are not happy with OTC elk and the pressure it brings. Big talk of going limited on all NR licenses as well.

As far as NR just coming up and poaching animals because they can't buy a license, just try. Our GW will set you straight on that. We have plenty patrolling and residents are more than willing to help with info and reporting, We respect our GWs and rightly so.
I welcome NRs to our state to hunt except for that attitude boss, poachers are not welcome and our GWs can deal with them. This attitude is what puts off many residents, we are entitled to hunt our game as residents , it is a state law in Wyoming. NR have the privilege to hunt, they are not entitled to our game . Be nice if some would recognize that fact. Wildlife in Wyoming is managed for the benefit of it's residents, feel free to move on up and join us.

Again I welcome you all up to hunt and freely help with info when I can, I like to see success. Do I believe we should come first in licenses , yes I do but I also agree that NR should get a piece of our hunting pie due to the public lands we have. I just don't feel NRs are entitled to the same numbers as our state residents. We live here,. make the sacrifices to do so and pay our state and county taxes every year for upkeep to our roads and infrastructure.

90/10 for E,D and A will be interesting, outfitters are getting their voice heard and they will not let NRs loose too many licenses. With the roll over to the NR draw after the Resident draw you will have many more licenses than the quota, except for maybe LQ elk.

I would like to see an increase in Private Land only licenses in the areas that are majority private. Make applicants have landowner permission to apply, and outfitters and landowners would all be happy with NR getting those licenses. We have the Type 7 licenses now, just expand them with permission to apply and in more areas.

Good reply wytex.

When we talk about WT deer in texas there are quite a few folks who forget the animals are state property and not the land owners property. Good reminder the animals of WY are not an out of state resident’s entitled right to hunt.

What would be the financial impact to Wyoming loosing all the out of state money, I'm sure it's Millions poured into the state.

One has to remember there are more people in Plano, TX than the whole state of Wyoming. If oil and gas is shutdown Wyoming's pockets are empty.

I would imagine that the money coming into Jackson Hole and that area of the state way surpasses the out of state hunting monies.

The problem is you are comparing apples to oranges. Nobody is stopping you or anyone else from using federal lands. But, and this is a big but, the courts have ruled that the game animals in a state belong to the residents of that state. So you can use the federal lands but that doesn't mean a state is under any obligation to let you hunt the game there or to even provide you the opportunity to. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but that is how the courts have ruled.

This is also why every state, including TX, can get away with charging a non-resident much more money to hunt than it does residents. Every state does it. It is what it is.

The WG&F has done a study on the lost revenue and how to recoup it. Raising resident fees is part of the solution and so far what is talked about is pretty benign for us.
Actually tourist dollars come into play more than hunters dollars from all I've talked with in towns near goof hunting areas. That will not change for our small towns.
Residents will spend dollars using those increased licenses . Last fall the spouse had a moose tag. We made 2 trips over to hunt, 14 days total. Took some food from here in town, bought some in small towns, fuel bought along the route, ate in nearby town a few times.
No different than a NR hunter except we made 2 trips not just one.

I really think it would be more fair to implement the change in say 2-4 years, maybe give those with max PP a chance to draw out before going 90/10.

Some folks who are "in the know" with some Task Force members think that any move to 90/10 for E,D and A will come from legislators not the Wildlife Task Force. That will be harder to get passed without the Task Force recc. it. Outfitters have a loud voice in Wyoming but I think the state will find it hard to guarantee them an income when state employees are not paid at market value.

Wyoming residents shouldn't tell Texas what to do with their wildlife, and Texas residents shouldn't tell Wyoming what to do with its wildlife.

Pretty easy stuff. I would easily pay double for everything if all tag allocations went to 90/10.

I for one always enjoy the insight and information from wytex.