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Indian scrappers? #8489597 12/29/21 02:53 PM
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don k Offline OP
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[Linked Image]
Are the 2 on the left fleshers-scrappers-knives? The piece on the right a start to making a point? The coin is a quarter for reference.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489611 12/29/21 03:07 PM
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They all look like preforms to me. They would make these and later on decide what type of point or tool they would need and finish knapping them, I do the same thing on the ranch. Instead of hauling back a truck load of chert I'll make preforms and then finish them when i have time. Scrapers are usually only knapped on one side and many times only one edge, used to remove the tough inner layer on hides.

Last edited by HWY_MAN; 12/29/21 03:09 PM.

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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489612 12/29/21 03:08 PM
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The one on the left is for sure. I have one that is the twin to that one, and was at a Pow Wow with it and was told thats what it is.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489636 12/29/21 03:31 PM
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Pretty cool

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489892 12/29/21 07:52 PM
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Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489925 12/29/21 08:29 PM
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Looks like the 2 bigger pieces are preforms, and the other is a completed piece with a snapped base.


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489937 12/29/21 08:36 PM
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Very interesting don nice find

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489949 12/29/21 08:48 PM
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Here's one I found in Telegraph last year..[Linked Image]

Last edited by pdugas; 12/29/21 08:49 PM.
Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489977 12/29/21 09:07 PM
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I can find lots of these on the new place, but have yet to find something with any futher work or notches. frown


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490067 12/29/21 10:52 PM
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Very cool

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: brokenpole] #8490098 12/29/21 11:27 PM
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don k Offline OP
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Originally Posted by brokenpole
Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO

Both of the flints on the left are very comfortable holding for a right handed person. There is an indentation for your thumb.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: brokenpole] #8490161 12/30/21 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by brokenpole
Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO


When I first found it I thought it was just a broken rock but the guy I was with told me it was a hide scraper . Once he showed me how to hold it , it fit my hand perfectly and was very comfortable. It’s amazing how they made it to be so user friendly.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490183 12/30/21 12:53 AM
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Very cool Don! Great find sir


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490228 12/30/21 01:25 AM
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Don I apologize. I didn’t mean to hijack your thread . Those are nice finds .

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490253 12/30/21 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by brokenpole
Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO

Both of the flints on the left are very comfortable holding for a right handed person. There is an indentation for your thumb.


Yes,

Unfortunately, 'hand fit' isn't going to be a very good diagnostic tool by itself for identifying a lithic find.

Scapers vs. Preform/Biface can be easy or difficult to determine depending on how far along the piece was reduced, its shape and other factors.

Without seeing the opposite side of each and a side profile (showing the edge and thickness) it is impossible to say one way or the other, but if forced to make a guess I'd say all three are preforms.

Typically preforms for points (not blades with a longer 3 to 1 ratio) will be roughly ovoid in shape. Scrappers can be literally anything depending on need.

A preform/biface (biface worked both sides) is simply a 'rough' reduction of the piece that will be further worked into the desired item.

For instance a preform for a Snyders Point....might look like this:

[Linked Image]

Last edited by flintknapper; 12/30/21 01:46 AM.

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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490383 12/30/21 04:21 AM
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Very interesting info. Thank y’all.


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: Ranch Dawg] #8490442 12/30/21 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranch Dawg
Very interesting info. Thank y’all.

up



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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: HWY_MAN] #8490598 12/30/21 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HWY_MAN
They all look like preforms to me. They would make these and later on decide what type of point or tool they would need and finish knapping them, I do the same thing on the ranch. Instead of hauling back a truck load of chert I'll make preforms and then finish them when i have time. Scrapers are usually only knapped on one side and many times only one edge, used to remove the tough inner layer on hides.

I agree with whatever Mike has to say about chert, knapping, Indians as he's the best I have ever seen. Mike does everything well except "hear".
Adios,
Gary

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490753 12/30/21 05:01 PM
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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490760 12/30/21 05:06 PM
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I have a few arrowheads but the scraper in new to me.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


[Linked Image]




Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490799 12/30/21 06:02 PM
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There was a knappin? when I was in Brady in October and I went by there to see what it was like. It was really interesting and there were lots if interesting things to look at.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: fishdfly] #8491055 12/31/21 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fishdfly
There was a knappin? when I was in Brady in October and I went by there to see what it was like. It was really interesting and there were lots if interesting things to look at.


If you want to learn flintknapping....then a Knap-In is a good place to start. Having someone experienced teach you the 'basics' is invaluable. These days there are all kinds of publications, videos, etc....to help. But a good teacher will get started much faster.

30 years ago when I started there was not too much out there to learn from (that was readily available).

Fortunately, a friend of mine had spent a few years learning from Craig Ratzat and he in turn...helped me get started.


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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