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Indian scrappers? #8489597 12/29/21 02:53 PM
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don k Online Content OP
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[Linked Image]
Are the 2 on the left fleshers-scrappers-knives? The piece on the right a start to making a point? The coin is a quarter for reference.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489611 12/29/21 03:07 PM
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They all look like preforms to me. They would make these and later on decide what type of point or tool they would need and finish knapping them, I do the same thing on the ranch. Instead of hauling back a truck load of chert I'll make preforms and then finish them when i have time. Scrapers are usually only knapped on one side and many times only one edge, used to remove the tough inner layer on hides.

Last edited by HWY_MAN; 12/29/21 03:09 PM.

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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489612 12/29/21 03:08 PM
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The one on the left is for sure. I have one that is the twin to that one, and was at a Pow Wow with it and was told thats what it is.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489636 12/29/21 03:31 PM
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Pretty cool

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489892 12/29/21 07:52 PM
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Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489925 12/29/21 08:29 PM
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Looks like the 2 bigger pieces are preforms, and the other is a completed piece with a snapped base.


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489937 12/29/21 08:36 PM
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Very interesting don nice find

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489949 12/29/21 08:48 PM
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Here's one I found in Telegraph last year..[Linked Image]

Last edited by pdugas; 12/29/21 08:49 PM.
Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8489977 12/29/21 09:07 PM
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I can find lots of these on the new place, but have yet to find something with any futher work or notches. frown


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490067 12/29/21 10:52 PM
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Very cool

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: brokenpole] #8490098 12/29/21 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by brokenpole
Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO

Both of the flints on the left are very comfortable holding for a right handed person. There is an indentation for your thumb.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: brokenpole] #8490161 12/30/21 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by brokenpole
Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO


When I first found it I thought it was just a broken rock but the guy I was with told me it was a hide scraper . Once he showed me how to hold it , it fit my hand perfectly and was very comfortable. It’s amazing how they made it to be so user friendly.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490183 12/30/21 12:53 AM
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Very cool Don! Great find sir


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490228 12/30/21 01:25 AM
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Don I apologize. I didn’t mean to hijack your thread . Those are nice finds .

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490253 12/30/21 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by brokenpole
Best way to tell between scraper and preform is how it fits in your hand, if it fits comfortable it’s more than likely a scraper or crude knife, IMO

Both of the flints on the left are very comfortable holding for a right handed person. There is an indentation for your thumb.


Yes,

Unfortunately, 'hand fit' isn't going to be a very good diagnostic tool by itself for identifying a lithic find.

Scapers vs. Preform/Biface can be easy or difficult to determine depending on how far along the piece was reduced, its shape and other factors.

Without seeing the opposite side of each and a side profile (showing the edge and thickness) it is impossible to say one way or the other, but if forced to make a guess I'd say all three are preforms.

Typically preforms for points (not blades with a longer 3 to 1 ratio) will be roughly ovoid in shape. Scrappers can be literally anything depending on need.

A preform/biface (biface worked both sides) is simply a 'rough' reduction of the piece that will be further worked into the desired item.

For instance a preform for a Snyders Point....might look like this:

[Linked Image]

Last edited by flintknapper; 12/30/21 01:46 AM.

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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490383 12/30/21 04:21 AM
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Very interesting info. Thank y’all.


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: Ranch Dawg] #8490442 12/30/21 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranch Dawg
Very interesting info. Thank y’all.

up


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: HWY_MAN] #8490598 12/30/21 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HWY_MAN
They all look like preforms to me. They would make these and later on decide what type of point or tool they would need and finish knapping them, I do the same thing on the ranch. Instead of hauling back a truck load of chert I'll make preforms and then finish them when i have time. Scrapers are usually only knapped on one side and many times only one edge, used to remove the tough inner layer on hides.

I agree with whatever Mike has to say about chert, knapping, Indians as he's the best I have ever seen. Mike does everything well except "hear".
Adios,
Gary

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490753 12/30/21 05:01 PM
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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490760 12/30/21 05:06 PM
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I have a few arrowheads but the scraper in new to me.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: don k] #8490799 12/30/21 06:02 PM
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There was a knappin? when I was in Brady in October and I went by there to see what it was like. It was really interesting and there were lots if interesting things to look at.

Re: Indian scrappers? [Re: fishdfly] #8491055 12/31/21 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fishdfly
There was a knappin? when I was in Brady in October and I went by there to see what it was like. It was really interesting and there were lots if interesting things to look at.


If you want to learn flintknapping....then a Knap-In is a good place to start. Having someone experienced teach you the 'basics' is invaluable. These days there are all kinds of publications, videos, etc....to help. But a good teacher will get started much faster.

30 years ago when I started there was not too much out there to learn from (that was readily available).

Fortunately, a friend of mine had spent a few years learning from Craig Ratzat and he in turn...helped me get started.


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