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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#8127839
01/13/21 05:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,118
redchevy
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I see no way to have an effect on deer numbers or health without a high fence or a lot of management minded neighbors.
My situation. I have 133 acres South of Bowie. At one time I had a LOT more. The deer were all healthy. But, I started shooting does, culls, etc. I planted wheat and fertilized. Over the years I saw no effect. Then a 4 year drought came along and we were left with damn few deer or wildlife of any kind. Even rabbits, quail, scorpions, chiggers, snakes, turkeys and ticks died off.
Things are looking better now but I no longer see herds of does. Hogs moved in about 10 or so years ago and are doing well. The hogs keep me and neighbors from planting crops of any kind. I can shoot hogs anytime and any day. I’ll have no effect on them.
The bottom line is if you want to manage wildlife, you better get Mama Nature on board. I think a big part of that is 133 acres. It doesnt even begin to contain a deers home range.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: redchevy]
#8132929
01/17/21 11:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,861
txtrophy85
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I see no way to have an effect on deer numbers or health without a high fence or a lot of management minded neighbors.
My situation. I have 133 acres South of Bowie. At one time I had a LOT more. The deer were all healthy. But, I started shooting does, culls, etc. I planted wheat and fertilized. Over the years I saw no effect. Then a 4 year drought came along and we were left with damn few deer or wildlife of any kind. Even rabbits, quail, scorpions, chiggers, snakes, turkeys and ticks died off.
Things are looking better now but I no longer see herds of does. Hogs moved in about 10 or so years ago and are doing well. The hogs keep me and neighbors from planting crops of any kind. I can shoot hogs anytime and any day. I’ll have no effect on them.
The bottom line is if you want to manage wildlife, you better get Mama Nature on board. I think a big part of that is 133 acres. It doesnt even begin to contain a deers home range. With the advent of deer feeders I think you would be surprised about some Deers home range. I have deer I see at feeder every trip. Resident does I see in the yard every time I drive up to the house. I think some deer roam about but others live their lives in just a couple hundred acres. My buddy has 35 acres and watched the same buck Every day in his yard for 6 years before it Disappeared.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#8133397
01/18/21 02:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 20,168
Biscuit
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I see no way to have an effect on deer numbers or health without a high fence or a lot of management minded neighbors.
My situation. I have 133 acres South of Bowie. At one time I had a LOT more. The deer were all healthy. But, I started shooting does, culls, etc. I planted wheat and fertilized. Over the years I saw no effect. Then a 4 year drought came along and we were left with damn few deer or wildlife of any kind. Even rabbits, quail, scorpions, chiggers, snakes, turkeys and ticks died off.
Things are looking better now but I no longer see herds of does. Hogs moved in about 10 or so years ago and are doing well. The hogs keep me and neighbors from planting crops of any kind. I can shoot hogs anytime and any day. I’ll have no effect on them.
The bottom line is if you want to manage wildlife, you better get Mama Nature on board. I think a big part of that is 133 acres. It doesnt even begin to contain a deers home range. With the advent of deer feeders I think you would be surprised about some Deers home range. I have deer I see at feeder every trip. Resident does I see in the yard every time I drive up to the house. I think some deer roam about but others live their lives in just a couple hundred acres. My buddy has 35 acres and watched the same buck Every day in his yard for 6 years before it Disappeared. Interesting
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: redchevy]
#8134503
01/19/21 02:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,663
Dave Davidson
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Redchevy, my point was about the change, not the numbers on just my place. The entire region was affected and has never gone back to the "good old days".
But, I saw more deer, actually herds, on my place than I now see in the region. I know they werent resident on my place but wandered around the area. All the neighbors and the game biologist agree.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#8134563
01/19/21 03:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,142
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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Redchevy, my point was about the change, not the numbers on just my place. The entire region was affected and has never gone back to the "good old days".
But, I saw more deer, actually herds, on my place than I now see in the region. I know they werent resident on my place but wandered around the area. All the neighbors and the game biologist agree. Dave, im kind of confused by this. Are you talking about the drought 8 or 10 years ago. I know the drought was worse in some places than others but I dont feel our lease or our area had a die off at all. Im not saying you didnt but even if you did the reduction of mouths on the land should of caused higher reproduction and recruitment and the numbers should of bounced back in pretty quick order. Im no expert but it seems to go against everything I think I know. But I dont know much. I would be curious to know more.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: freerange]
#8134883
01/19/21 02:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,118
redchevy
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Redchevy, my point was about the change, not the numbers on just my place. The entire region was affected and has never gone back to the "good old days".
But, I saw more deer, actually herds, on my place than I now see in the region. I know they werent resident on my place but wandered around the area. All the neighbors and the game biologist agree. Dave, im kind of confused by this. Are you talking about the drought 8 or 10 years ago. I know the drought was worse in some places than others but I dont feel our lease or our area had a die off at all. Im not saying you didnt but even if you did the reduction of mouths on the land should of caused higher reproduction and recruitment and the numbers should of bounced back in pretty quick order. Im no expert but it seems to go against everything I think I know. But I dont know much. I would be curious to know more. Im in the same boat as freerange. The drought in those times is ancient history in deer years. They should be back in force.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#8134888
01/19/21 02:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,118
redchevy
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With the advent of deer feeders I think you would be surprised about some Deers home range. I have deer I see at feeder every trip. Resident does I see in the yard every time I drive up to the house.
I think some deer roam about but others live their lives in just a couple hundred acres. My buddy has 35 acres and watched the same buck Every day in his yard for 6 years before it Disappeared.
Honestly our deer never need to venture further than a few acres to get what they NEED. There is a free choice protein feeder, water station, and corn feeder plus 80 acres of good natural browse in every 1/4 of our place. We have deer that routinely hit all of the feeders, some that hit just one of them then during the rut will hit several of them and we have deer that come and go every year.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8134928
01/19/21 02:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,861
txtrophy85
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Deer arnt much different than people.
Some will travel the world and not stay long in the same place. Others are content to live their lives in the same area never venturing from what’s familiar
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8134951
01/19/21 03:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,619
Creekrunner
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My good bucks appear to be "rolling stones".
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Creekrunner]
#8135098
01/19/21 04:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,118
redchevy
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My good bucks appear to be "rolling stones". The biggest we have taken and the biggest we have seen on our place traveled quite a ways from their normal homes. We have a couple of our better ones that were the biggest homebodies I have ever seen though.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8135155
01/19/21 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 16,168
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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Neighbor and I each removed a doe this weekend. Saturday afternoon I had 30 different deer in a 50 acre area (12-acre central oat field). 6 bucks, 14 fawns, 10 does. Lots of deer, I saw some of them walk 800+ yards to get to the oat field. Despite recent rains/snow, they're keeping it too short to put sheep on.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8135237
01/19/21 06:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,142
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 9,142 |
edit. sorry guys i just posted on wrong thread or something so I erased.
Last edited by freerange; 01/19/21 06:48 PM.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8135700
01/19/21 11:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,663
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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I have no real idea why they haven’t recovered to pre drought times. I talked to the TPWD biologist not too long ago. He has been there quite awhile but was not there when the “good old days” and the 4 year drought occurred.However, he did talk to the previous guy who confirmed the changes.
The only real change that has occurred regards cattle. Back then, there were a lot of actual ranchers. I was one. That meant a lot of fertilized winter wheat and oats. Now, if I plant wheat the pigs pretty well root it up. So, we don’t have the winter browse that we once had.
Last edited by Dave Davidson; 01/20/21 12:04 AM.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8135952
01/20/21 02:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Drought plus high deer numbers means the habitat has not recovered.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8136241
01/20/21 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 15,007
Hudbone
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isn't that contradictory?
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8136503
01/20/21 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 15,007
Hudbone
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Because they are moving so much to find food?
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8136522
01/20/21 04:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
To many deer. Severe drought hits. To many deer eat habitat till it is damaged severely. To many deer die off to a few deer. Does not rain for a while. Habitat does not recover due to long term stress. Habitat now only capable of supporting so many deer. Deer numbers do not recover due to what is now poor habitat.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8136699
01/20/21 08:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,142
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,142 |
STx, I know this may be too complex to explain in this context but i wish you could elaborate on how this situation isnt always true across our State since most of the State experienced drought in those years. Im aware that good deer and land managers can, should and do keep their populations in check with the carrying capacity. I just believe that the vast majority of our State wide deer habitat is NOT aggressively controlled to match the carrying capacity. So my question is WHY didnt more areas experience the big habitat destruction/damage that you mentioned? Or did they? The theory of some areas being population dependent versus population independent may come into play but I never have grasped that concept in a real world concept. Our area in NW Tx did fine during the drought without making a major push at killing does. Fawn crops/recruitment cut back but adults and habitat did not seem to be hurt in any major way. I have always thought in our area(and others) that other factors controlled any potential to over populate to some extent. Bottom line, I guess--why can some areas of State get away with not killing a lot of does and make it through a drought "ok" and others have habitat severely damaged, along with a die off and then a very long recovery(if ever) of the habitat? Anyone else besides STx, of course, is free to comment.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8136777
01/20/21 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 265
ELKMTB
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 265 |
Require members to take 2 does before a buck is taken?
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#8136809
01/20/21 09:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 236
mley1
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 236 |
I have no real idea why they haven’t recovered to pre drought times. I talked to the TPWD biologist not too long ago. He has been there quite awhile but was not there when the “good old days” and the 4 year drought occurred.However, he did talk to the previous guy who confirmed the changes.
The only real change that has occurred regards cattle. Back then, there were a lot of actual ranchers. I was one. That meant a lot of fertilized winter wheat and oats. Now, if I plant wheat the pigs pretty well root it up. So, we don’t have the winter browse that we once had. Could it be that you now have too many pigs? Pigs will run deer off.
Thanks,
Marty
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: Brother Phil]
#8137706
01/21/21 02:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,118
redchevy
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Posts: 40,118 |
We had open feeders that fed hogs and deer. The hogs dominated the feeders and the deer sightings went down. I would shoot hogs multiple hunts in a row many times. We penned the two feeders we saw hogs at the most and hog sightings plummeted and deer sightings skyrocketed. About 3-4 years down the road, we rarely see hogs, only 2 were seen the entire season long on our place.
One down side is it seems with the absence of the feral hogs, the javalina have come back in force.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Too Many Deer?
[Re: redchevy]
#8137716
01/21/21 03:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,474
Herbie Hancock
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,474 |
We had open feeders that fed hogs and deer. The hogs dominated the feeders and the deer sightings went down. I would shoot hogs multiple hunts in a row many times. We penned the two feeders we saw hogs at the most and hog sightings plummeted and deer sightings skyrocketed. About 3-4 years down the road, we rarely see hogs, only 2 were seen the entire season long on our place.
One down side is it seems with the absence of the feral hogs, the javalina have come back in force. Yep shut down the soup kitchen the freeloaders will stop showing up.
It takes beer to make thirst worthwhile - J. Fred Schmidt
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