My main two rifles have Ranger 16" bbls and I've never noticed a significant POI shift as the bbls warm up. Load data for the 135FTX is on the web site, basically 2380-2400fps using CFEBLK

Unless you plan to shoot mostly 150gr a 1-15 will be fine and possibly more accurate with the lighter bullets than a 1-13. But like all barrels they often have favorite bullets/loads. I've got guns with 1-11.25, 1-13 and 1-15 and they all shoot very good with loads they like.

The main reason we make the 1-13 is for 150gr bullets in sub freezing weather, some of the longer 150gr bullets "could" become unstable in extreme cold according to stabilization calculations. That said we have never had a complaint of a 150gr going unstable out of a 1-15 twist barrel. At the time we standardized on a 1-15 twist we were focused on 125-130gr bullets. SAAMI lists a 1-12 twist due to it being common in the firearms industry and most gun companies have 1-12 tooling. Bottom line both twists normally shoot well, especially with 125-135gr bullets.

Hello Bill,

I followed your advice and took measurements of wall thickness and OD of several loaded and fired cases.
Here are the results:

Unfortunately I don't have enough experience to determine if something is wrong with my loads.
Could you please take a look at the data?

The only idea I have at the moment is that maybe I should avoid using Lee Factory Crimp die as a final stage or adjust the crimp level.
Do you crimp the factory ammo? On average my loads' OD even for new factory cases is ~0.0003" lower than factory ammo.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Measure the OD of your loaded ammo at the neck, my guess is your LC-20 cases have a neck wall thickness that's too thick. We've ran into this is various brands and lots of 5.56 cases.[/quote]

Hello Bill,

I followed your advice and took measurements of wall thickness and OD of several loaded and fired cases.
Here are the results:

Unfortunately I don't have enough experience to determine if something is wrong with my loads.
Could you please take a look at the data?

The only idea I have at the moment is that maybe I should avoid using Lee Factory Crimp die as a final stage or adjust the crimp level.
Do you crimp the factory ammo? On average my loads' OD even for new factory cases is ~0.0003" lower than factory ammo.

Thanks.


[/quote]

My loads in new Sig mfg cases measure from .328-.330 depending on the bullet loaded and whether it's a Starline or Sig case and/or brass or nickel plated. Most are .329"

I've never had any luck with the Lee FC dies, I only do a light taper crimp using a .300BLK taper crimp die.

The spec for the chamber ID of the neck should be .334" and this has never changed from day one. However if your barrel was chambered at the end of the lifespan of a reamer it could be as small as .333"

Thanks for replying.

My barrel is probably from the first batch of 1:13 Ranger 16.25" and I suppose the ID of the chamber is 0.334".
It looks like freshly converted cases expand to 0.331" while factory cases expand to 0.333", can those 0.002" cause significant gas seepage into the chamber?

Also, since my loads are dimensionally almost identical to the factory cases and easily pass case gauge, what can I check next?

Thanks for replying.

My barrel is probably from the first batch of 1:13 Ranger 16.25" and I suppose the ID of the chamber is 0.334".
It looks like freshly converted cases expand to 0.331" while factory cases expand to 0.333", can those 0.002" cause significant gas seepage into the chamber?

Also, since my loads are dimensionally almost identical to the factory cases and easily pass case gauge, what can I check next?

[/quote]

Your 135FTX load is certainly hot enough for a good case/chamber seal, I'll bet it's well over 60k PSI. What's your velocity on this load? Anything over 2400fps from a 16" is too hot.

Do you have the same tight chambering problem if you shoot some of our factory ammo?

I've never seen an issue like this, like most of the serious night hog hunters on this thread I run my guns filthy and just keep cleaning the chamber and lubing the BCG with no malfunctions. Personally I do this regiment every 30-40rds

The BCG pictured probably hasn't had the bolt out of it in over 500rds, I just wipe it down and squirt more lube in/on it and I can't remember ever having any kind of malfunction. I do run all nickel cases in my suppressed guns, but this is mainly because I keep them loaded all the time. If you shoot several shots and leave the gun loaded with brass cases the cartridge will be pretty much welded in the chamber a week later due to the corrosion from the ammonia moisture.

My 135FTX loads (in factory WC cases) leave the barrel at 2459fps while identical factory loads factory are at 2450fps.
My "fire forming" loads utilize 125TNT and Accura 120SP bullets and those leave the barrel at ~2300fps and require ~25gr of CFEBlk (Lot #5), maybe that is to low?

My bolt never looked as dirty as yours ;-) In fact my BCG looks pretty clean (with only small amount of carbon at the front face of the bolt) by the time first round fails to load.
If I swap the BCG with a clean one, the rounds still refuses to seat.
In my case almost all fouling is in the chamber and barrel extension area.
Usually by round 20 the barrel extension is completely black and I start having random issues seating rounds (both factory and converted cases).
By round 50 I have to clean the chamber and barrel extension to continue shooting.

Now, I mostly shoot "fire forming" loads and only a few loads in factory cases.
Unfortunately I don't have enough factory cases to see if the problem persist with factory cases and you are currently out of stock ;-(

P.S.
Since the barrel in question is my first Stainless Steel barrel, I wonder if my cleaning regiment and supplies might cause fouling to "stick" to the steel surfaces since nitrated and anodizes surfaces remain relatively clean.
I use Hornady OneShot gun cleaner/lube to remove the fouling and after that I lube contact surfaces using small amounts of Weapon Shield.

I use Hornady OneShot gun cleaner/lube to remove the fouling and after that I lube contact surfaces using small amounts of Weapon Shield.

Do you use a tight fitting nylon chamber brush? I brush the chamber out well with a nylon brush and then finish with a cotton patch. I don't use any cleaner or solvent.

We run a tight chamber to cartridge spec (basically a match chamber for ultimate accuracy) so 50rds suppressed may be too much??? I'm not sure I've ever shot more than 40rds without brushing out the chamber, usually every 30rds or so.

I use brass brush and cotton patch. When I finish cleaning all parts of the barrel look as new.

Maybe you are correct and what I see is normal especially while fire forming brass.

I wonder what other people can say on subject.
Am I the only one who attempted to shoot suppressed 50 converted rounds without cleaning?

DJ please chime in here, I know you shoot a lot of suppressed rounds

as far as rounds between cleaning... my hunting buddies and i have spent over 100 rounds in a night, many times, and one or more mag dumps are usually involved. knowing that could happen, i always try to clean my gun before hand. that always entails a chamber cleaning. sometimes i would brush and patch the barrel but not much. i'm usually cleaning it right before a hunt and i'm anxious to get going.

my bolt is utterly disgusting. i wipe it off and oil it as well as the carrier, inside and out. lastly i clean out the barrel extension with a qtip. the barrel end is easy. the hard part is the backside where the bolt lugs engage. i break off the end of a qtip and use small needle nose pliers to hold the qtip almost inverted to clean the area where the lugs engage. if you've never cleaned it, you'll be shocked at how much grunge is there. if that's not clean, my bolt will not lock up reliably. the bolt lugs get some weapon grease. that may be why that area is so grungy.

letting the ammonia out of your chamber is a great tip i learned from bill right here. before, my chamber would be so corroded that i wouldn't be able to eject my loaded round after the hunt was over. usually i'd have to pull the mag and shoot the last round out.

also, if the rear of the bolt or the inside of the carrier have built up carbon, i eventually get that out. as usual, the right tools for the job make it easier.

I've run 200 to 250rds in my 11" gun suppressed in a practice session with no reliability issues at all. Obviously, the bolt and chamber area is nasty, but as Bill said, you just keep it wet and it keeps running without issues.

I'm sitting at 170+ rounds with no cleaning of any sort, every shot suppressed with minimal lube when it was assembled new. I assembled my upper with a factory new WC Ranger barrel, an old Obama era gun run DSG coated BCG I had laying around & milspec carbine spring with standard buffer.

The ammo count is close to a 50/50 mix of WC factory 125 PH brass cased ammo & hand loaded TNT pills & Sierra PH pushed with 28.4gr CFE BLK mainly to see how CFE works since it's a new powder to me. It kills pigs but it's on the border of nasty & the top 5 rounds in my mag are always green & salty when I download. I plan on cleaning the gun at 200 & then will resume the weekend bolt/chamber wipe down & occasionally snake the tube.

She has been very reliable so far but doesn't want to seat without the forward assist when I draw the bolt slightly back and let it go after doing a tactile chamber check (in the dark)
I've had 2 brass cases get gummy in the chamber overnight but they hand extracted & fired later.

I've never been a nickel case fan but for the reason Bill mentioned that's the route I'll go after I burn through all the brass case ammo I have.

Is this problem upper in question home assembled?

@djones, @SDTurner, @Dzhitshard
Thank you for chiming in.

@Dzhitshard
Yes, the upper in question is custom built but I have no reason to suspect any of the components since they all function perfectly in 556/300blk configurations and replacing the components does not help, except the upper it self but what can be wrong with the upper which I lapped (both front face and the shaft)?

It seems like you guys tend to use factory or already "fire formed" cases while I am experiencing issues with shooting suppressed 25+ of freshly converted LC cases.

I am trying to figure if someone else attempted to "fire form" brass while suppressed and managed to shoot more than 25-50 rounds without issues.

I have no desire to offend anyone, but my thinking goes along with ShadowFast1. Every time another non-standard part is added to the mix things change. Long before I would be worrying about the case neck being too thick, I would be wondering about the timing on the rifle. You can not change part "A" without it affecting part "B", "C", and "D". You changed the design of three parts of the "operating system" and are trying to compensate that with a adjustable gas block? Good luck.

First, to solve any problem you first need to reduce the variables. Go back to "standard" parts (I would suggest all from the same maker, such as Wilson Combat) and factory ammunition. At that point you may discover you no longer even have a problem. Then you can add in your handloads following the data listed on Wilson's website. Basically you are doing one change at a time and that helps you discover what the problem may be. At that point add in the suppressor.

I have not...at $30 per 100 cases, it's not worth my time to make cases from other brass. The WC brass appears to be pretty good brass too, I've stuck to my original 100 cases to see how long the primer pockets would last...I've got 4 firings on most of it and they are still holding pretty tight.

Good luck, stuff like this is aggravating to attempt to figure out. I do agree with Greycard, changing one variable at a time will help significantly.

It was late when I posted. I should have prefaced asking if you've proofed the upper with a known good ammo source or components prior to jumping into attempting to convert your own brass.

I'm sure if you're jumping into Fire forming your own brass you're likely pretty confident with the erector set upper assembly. I've assembled a lot of uppers and I've made more than one mistake on assembling gas systems over the years, even with known good, reused equipment. I've seen a handful of gas block alignment issues that produced non typical symptoms. Excessively dirty chamber on a Whisper was one of them.


Its very likely there's an anomaly with your brass production but it's nice to have all the variables out of the way before chasing that.

Best of luck. I'll be keeping an eye out for your resolution in case I have to ever resort to converting brass.

Disregard. I re-read & see you are apparently only talking about this issue when you FIRE FORM brass & have not specifically said you've had the issue after you've formed and reloaded it afterward.
Good luck.

Few hogs and yotes with the 135 Sierra, didn't have any Hornadys. Ended up with 12 hogs, 8 coyotes, 1 raccoon and 1 deer this trip. 16" 300 HAM'R with Wilson Combat Whisper suppressor. Had to freehand the hogs in the field.

I have never shot anything but LC brass. Thousands of rounds and reloaded it several times. I've never had any malfunctions because of being suppressed with LC brass. I clean my rifle every couple of months but mostly just add more grease and oil to the carrier. Every round has been suppressed and I've never fired it without the suppressor. I really have not had any issues because of the brass.

My rifle is piston operated so my combination of buffer and spring will not be of any value to you.

Disclaimer: I also hunt with DJ so I can't be too smart!

I’m late to the party. But at least I’m here!!! Upper on the way and lower build in progress right now. One question I have is , will H2 buffer in a 16” build work well for me. I will run it supressed Let’s say 50/50. Maybe more.

Thanks in advance!!

Welcome to the group

I run standard buffers and 37 coil chrome silicon flat wire springs (WC #TR-FWBS37) in my guns, both suppressed and unsuppressed with no issues. We've never seen a need to run heavier buffers with this caliber. However if your going to run suppressed 50% of the time you might consider an adjustable gas block because the gas port size will be proper for non-suppressed use.

Awesome. Thank you for the advice! I haven’t been this excited over a new gun/caliber build since my Grendel almost 11 years ago.

Has anyone loaded the Speer 150gr SP #2023 with success?

I grabbed them thinking they were part number #2022 from the recommended list but noticed I was off a number a few days later when I shuffled the boxes on the bench.

I can't find specifics on the Speer site & I wasn't sure if the ogive was located in the same place as the #2022 so I could use similar charge & COAL data. With parts being unobtanium right now I'm not real excited about being a lab monkey.

I also found some OLD Remington 150gr RNCL that may be worth a shot later next year if things are still as bleak as they seem now. On the really off chance anyone has successfully worked something up for them I'd be interested to hear about it.

Howdy from GA Y`all! I've read this forum over and over and finally took the plunge into the World of the HAM`R! On 10/25 when Shop Wilson Combat had the sale, I swooped 2 - Ranger 16.2" 1:13's for a Twin KP-15 build. Just minutes after I got notified Midway had the Lee Die sets in and grabbed a set. Pretty darn excited to say the least. I've loaded for several large frame .30cal gas guns for years, as well as .223/5.56. I never jumped on the 300blk band wagon because I never intended to shoot anything suppressed and personally don't see how Sub-sonic hunting could be humane/ethical on deer beyond 50-75yd without head or neck shots. (Not trying to offend anyone, just my personal perspective)

I'm sure I'll ask plenty of questions that I haven't already found an answer to here, as I finish my rifles and begin reloading for them.

@Dzhitshard Take this for what you will: Back on March 1st I scored 3,500 Speer #2023's for 11¢ ea, using gun.deals to find the cheapest retailer and used the Speer/RCBS rebate.. I load and shoot a lot of them in .308. One of the best bang for your buck bullets out there. I just made a HAM`R modified case and using Hornadys OAL case Gauge I repeatedly measured 2.406/2.407" OAL on the 2 New barrels touching the lands.. YMMV on your exact chamber cut, but magazine length should be fine. Since I've yet to reload for HAM`R and don't have any #2022's to compare OGIVES.. I can't offer much more help.I looked at quickload but they have the #2023's listed as .960" when mine measure 1.046" so that was of no help either.. I would like to think they are very similar and or the same, one just being a boat tail.

Happy & Safe, Hunting, Shooting, and Reloading to all!