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Cull or no cull? #8063680 11/25/20 04:05 AM
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In trying to manage our lease for better genetics what is the groups opinion on this 7 point?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8063725 11/25/20 05:01 AM
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You can’t cull genetics. All culling does is remove mouths from the property and gives the remaining deer more to eat.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8063735 11/25/20 05:13 AM
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What sapper said....if you have a burning buck tag in your pocket that just needs used, feel free to use one on that guy. But if you only have one to use, why waste it on him when the long term effects of removing that buck will be essentially zero.
Most places are much better served reducing doe numbers and thereby reducing their mouths to feed and also bringing buck:doe ratio more in line.
You aren’t going to change any genetics in your herd by taking one buck, when half the genetics of the offspring come from the doe anyway.

But again, if you really want to shoot him and have the tag, them do it!

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: Texas buckeye] #8063747 11/25/20 05:31 AM
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Makes sense now they I read a little about the effects of culling and allegedly cannot improve genetics. So maybe the proper question is should we remove him for more promising bucks? To provide more groceries for the rest of the herd.

Thanks

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8063814 11/25/20 11:56 AM
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If you want more that look just like him in the future....then keep him. If you have the tags to kill him...then kill him. You don't manage the herd by taking just one deer...but by taking the correct deer and the correct number of deer off each year.


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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8063941 11/25/20 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BLUERIBBONS
In trying to manage our lease for better genetics what is the groups opinion on this 7 point?

Thanks in advance!


Very hard to say for sure not knowing what you have.
He'd be a cull on some ranches and a keeper on others.....kinda depends really on what your overall buck herd looks like in relation to him.
Some ranches are so high up the food chain with their management programs they cull out any bucks under 140" at 3 years old....still others would love to see a 140" whitetail buck.

From this pic I would guess him as a 3 year old and if he is you have to ask yourself how does he compare to all the other 3 years olds I have?


High fence, low fence, no fence, it really doesn't matter as long as you're hunting!
Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8063976 11/25/20 02:33 PM
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We just got back from a 30 deer management hunt South Texas. It was all about taking mouths off the ranch. 20 does and 10 bucks had to come out. The old guys weren't really moving much but plenty of mid and young bucks were. They were selected by the number of deer in the same age bracket at each blind to keep balance of age groups. Yes there were some very young doe taken but its all part of the plan. Funky antlers were next. If a 4 point and a six point were the same age the 4 got it and so on with each age class that were up to 8 points. Over 8 were spared.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8063989 11/25/20 02:46 PM
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"You can’t cull genetics." Whatever. If you can't cull them consider it slowing/;limiting the spread of inferior genetics. One thing is sure, if the one on the photo is taken out, his personal genetics WILL be removed from the pasture.

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: stxranchman] #8063991 11/25/20 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
If you want more that look just like him in the future....then keep him. If you have the tags to kill him...then kill him. You don't manage the herd by taking just one deer...but by taking the correct deer and the correct number of deer off each year.



^^^^A+,

I’m glad you have been paying attention to me all these years grin


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8063993 11/25/20 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman
If you want more that look just like him in the future....then keep him. If you have the tags to kill him...then kill him. You don't manage the herd by taking just one deer...but by taking the correct deer and the correct number of deer off each year.



^^^^A+,

I’m glad you have been paying attention to me all these years grin

I see you still lack reading skills...as my last sentence skimmed right over you head... roflmao


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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8064008 11/25/20 02:57 PM
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Low fence free range deer are Hinze 57 mutts. I suspect they all have the same genetic potential running around in their bodies to produce a wall hanger or the next two year old spike, it is by chance that the right buck and the right doe get together at the right time that native natural big deer are born. Even if the same buck and doe breed and produce a stud, no guarantee that it will happen again if they were to breed again.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: stxranchman] #8064009 11/25/20 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman
If you want more that look just like him in the future....then keep him. If you have the tags to kill him...then kill him. You don't manage the herd by taking just one deer...but by taking the correct deer and the correct number of deer off each year.



^^^^A+,

I’m glad you have been paying attention to me all these years grin

I see you still lack reading skills...as my last sentence skimmed right over you head... roflmao


No the correct deer is always arbitrary, Infact what’s it even actually matter since you are managing ratios, age classes and staying well below CC. It doesn’t. You are going to have to eliminate mouths every year. One man’s dream frame is another man’s cull. Proven by one of my favorite deer I’ve seen a picture of to date.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8064017 11/25/20 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman
If you want more that look just like him in the future....then keep him. If you have the tags to kill him...then kill him. You don't manage the herd by taking just one deer...but by taking the correct deer and the correct number of deer off each year.



^^^^A+,

I’m glad you have been paying attention to me all these years grin

I see you still lack reading skills...as my last sentence skimmed right over you head... roflmao


No the correct deer is always arbitrary, Infact what’s it even actually matter since you are managing ratios, age classes and staying well below CC. It doesn’t. You are going to have to eliminate mouths every year. One man’s dream frame is another man’s cull. Proven by one of my favorite deer I’ve seen a picture of to date.

scratch


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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: stxranchman] #8064027 11/25/20 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8064029 11/25/20 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors

violin


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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8064076 11/25/20 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Gonna be hard to play if your elbow is still in that sling... bolt

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: Texas buckeye] #8064081 11/25/20 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Gonna be hard to play if your elbow is still in that sling... bolt

His brain is always in a sling.... rofl


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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: Texas buckeye] #8064131 11/25/20 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Gonna be hard to play if your elbow is still in that sling... bolt



That was Aug, then had ankle rebuilt in late Sept, then another round of stem injections in Oct. I’m about ready to go into NFL and take Jerry off my blocked call list

😂.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: stxranchman] #8064135 11/25/20 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Gonna be hard to play if your elbow is still in that sling... bolt

His brain is always in a sling.... rofl



Don't you need to go grease your trailer bearings... I'd hate to jinx you 🤣


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: stxranchman] #8064141 11/25/20 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
If you want more that look just like him in the future....then keep him. If you have the tags to kill him...then kill him. You don't manage the herd by taking just one deer...but by taking the correct deer and the correct number of deer off each year.



up cheers



Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: redchevy] #8064168 11/25/20 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Low fence free range deer are Hinze 57 mutts. I suspect they all have the same genetic potential running around in their bodies to produce a wall hanger or the next two year old spike, it is by chance that the right buck and the right doe get together at the right time that native natural big deer are born. Even if the same buck and doe breed and produce a stud, no guarantee that it will happen again if they were to breed again.


This is the answer to 99% of low fence native herd management. The reality is the doe presents half the genetic material for any buck, and saying removing a single buck will remove any specific genetics from the herd is just wishful thinking. In order to get rid of genetics from a specific buck, we would have to dart and sample every doe and buck on the place and surrounding places, then kill off all the doe and bucks with that one bucks DNA in it. Talk about an impossibility.

To say that any one buck will consistently throw off bad antlers is also a fallacy. Both studies and anecdotal evidence have shown us that so many factors go into a buck's expression of his antler year after year. Nutrition and stress, probably in reverse order most of the time with middle aged and older bucks, affect antler expression way more so than anything else. Studies have shown one bucks antlers do not predict its offspring's antlers either, probably at least in some part to the doe half, but all the above things play apart as well.

So for us to sit here and act like taking one buck off a place is going to make or break a place is just folly. Pure folly.

Now taking 30 deer off a place (must have been a large place) where 20 were doe mouths and then you age stratify the bucks removed and take the inferior of each age class....thats some real management. But, and this is a big BUT, 99% of low fence ranches will NEVER ever see that kind of management in place.

The best 90+% of us can hope to do is take off mouths to feed, and try to get buck:doe ratio in line to facilitate a stronger buck population.

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8064170 11/25/20 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Gonna be hard to play if your elbow is still in that sling... bolt



That was Aug, then had ankle rebuilt in late Sept, then another round of stem injections in Oct. I’m about ready to go into NFL and take Jerry off my blocked call list

😂.


You gonna take Vander esch's spot? Just tell me when and I will be there...

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: SapperTitan] #8064450 11/25/20 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SapperTitan
You can’t cull genetics. All culling does is remove mouths from the property and gives the remaining deer more to eat.


This

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BLUERIBBONS] #8064516 11/25/20 09:37 PM
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If genetics cannot be managed, just how were dog breeds developed? I wonder how the King Ranch was able to develop Santa Gertrudis cattle? If it wasn't by controlling breeding, then how was it? Btw, take out a buck and you are part of the management.

Re: Cull or no cull? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8064532 11/25/20 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by stxranchman

scratch



roflmao

We will settle this next week!!! Prepare for battle!!! I’ve never lost Paper, Rock, scissors


Gotta kinda feel sorry for West TX.

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