Long read and rant sorry!

Well no kill video to share. We went to "WTF Ranch" in Nacogdoches, Texas; the name stands for Whitetail Farms but I think I will let people judge what it should really stand for. It was a disaster of an experience. We arranged to kill a Red Stag and do a full promotional video for this ranch and an episode for our show. The night before the owner changed it to a small stag or Hind. Ok fine. We drive 3 hours and now it's changed to a small Hind or axis doe. Ok fine. Drive around for 3 hours to get all the filler video we need and video of his set up which is what we always do first. Then we are supposed to video the kill, then we finish videoing scenes to back up the kill so we can tie it all in together.

So We get in the blind at 5:30pm and A decent Hind walks up about 6:15 ish I think. The owner says this Hine is too young (which he just got done stating that he does not like to kill mature Hinds so they can breed better stags). Ok fine, and the Hind walks off after 10 mins. Then the owner says, "I think we are going to regret not shooting that one." What?! Then a spike stag comes in still no word to shoot and he walks off after about 10 mins in the food plot.

Day 2 In The blind 45 mins before light. An hour after sunrise a small group of red deer walk in. Two nice stags and one smaller stag with a messed up rack. I am ready to shoot the cull with the bad rack but no green light is given and he walks off. The owner then says, "if he comes back shoot him." Ok wtf?! Why did you not say that 2 mins ago!
Then 8:30 comes and the owner gets up and walks out of the blind and says time to drive around and see what we see for more video. Wtf?! At 8:30? We had 3 hours of video driving around the day before we have video of all the species he has, his outfit, even areal video with the drone; we have everything but the kill.

Then we drive around. Every food plot we come up to her drives into it full speed and wonders why the animals run off. Then we find a group and jump them with the mule. You would think we would circle back, cut them off and stalk them, but nope he turns and goes the opposite way.

Then we find another group bedded down, they do not move and the owner is silent and does not give the green light. Finally my camera operator speaks up and says take them. So I get out and the owner says "no clear shot." But there were two clear shots! Then they run away. So we suggest to cut them off before they cross the road. We get there and wait for no more than 5 mins and he says "looks like they are not coming let's go."

Then drives us back to the house. All by 10am. Then says, "we will see you back this afternoon to drive around for more video and then hunt the evening."

We pack up and leave and let him know we are not coming back and wasting more of our time just to get him "more video." No apology or remorse only trying to use us for videoing purposes and never intended to have us kill anything. His comment was "what happens to the video you already took" Arrg! Waste of time, money and resources.

I am not doing this for "free hunts." This is a pure promotional video for each ranch that we film at. I have a lot of cost that goes into every episode. Time, gas, lodging, food, labor, equipment, then the several days of editing to put it all together.

Some people just want to try to walk over others to get something for nothing. Our good friend who was acting as the camera operator for the weekend told the owner that at the end he wants to pay the 500.00 fee to shoot a red deer Hind for his own enjoyment and meat. So he was also getting cash out of the deal!

Sorry for the rant, but it is frustrating when others try to take advantage of situations.

Is a video without a kill not an option for a paying customer?

Just a question, nothing more.

I am not going to get into refuting this fantasy land version of the events. I would just advise any one contemplating using this video service to send me a PM first.

Anyone who knows me, knows this story is BS.

I don't understand what you are asking...

Is a filmed kill by the video company a required part of the deal?

Don't know if I can make it more clear.

I have thought about this for a bit. I don't know either parties on this deal. I want to add my solution to this kind of problem. I get approached all the time by camera swingers to come hunt, saying they want to promote my ranches. I do have camera crews that hunt with me every year, but they pay FULL PRICE ! I treat them no different than anyone else, and they get 100% of my efforts! Eliminates all the drama and everything is on the level. This industry gets more cut throat and crooked everyday, and to me that's really sad. Whether you deal with brokers , outfitters, or ranches , now days even with good references you still face the chance to get burned. Whatever happened to keeping your word regardless of the outcome?

Lonnie,

That is a good solution, you have come up with. These guys contacted me to do this video with a red hind hunt, should have known better, when they couldn't even show up on time. lol

It is a sad time when people don't do what they say, they will.

Thanks, for your solution, a pay hunt would have saved me a wasted weekend.
Take care.

The services were for the ranch.. And you had a paid hunt. for the second animal that was to be killed.... A kill was part of the deal to finalize the promotional video for your ranch. When we saw every effort was being made to avoid that we decided to stop wasting our time and yours.

When we confronted you there was not one mention of, no that is not it, or I am so sorry it seemed that way, or anything of the sort. The first question was what happens to the video already taken? If our thoughts were false you would think there would have been some sort of communication to try to resolve the misunderstanding.. But nope, you were only worried about video already taken, not how we can fix the issue and move forward.

This was my experience, and read into it of what you will. I have my many Ranches that vouch for my services and how we follow through on our side of the deals.

I am not just a guy with a camera getting a free hunt and throwing a number up at the end of a video. The entire video is built around the Ranch itself, and promotes the ranch throughout the entire episode. This is also why we were paying for a second kill, because the agreement was for one kill.

When my camera guy showed up he decided he wanted a kill. Did we try to ask for a second one free? Nope we went right into offering to pay for it.

Save your time and go to someone who really focuses on their customers and someone who really wants to get you on an animal.

Over the years I have been contacted a number of times by either writers or video people wanting to write or film. Most wanted to do this not out of the kindness of their heart but for a free hunt. In exchange they would advertise for me. I have never taken any up on the offer. I have always thought the word of mouth is your best advertisement. And now that face book is around filming may be the worst kind of advertisement you can have. Also as small an operation as I have what do I need my name plastered up in front of too many. When you only sell 10 or so Deer and the like amount of Ibex a year it you don't need to reach out to the entire country. And many times it is better if you don't.

Very true Don. Above anything in this world , there is no better advertisement than a happy client.
It's funny I have been in lots of videos and promos, and researched the responses. Only about 3% of new clients come from videos, the rest is all word of mouth. Don hit on another point that is very true, 8 out of 10 are only after free hunts. Sad how a few spoil the whole batch.

There are also plenty of ranches wanting something for nothing these days. Having done some video work in the past there is a LOT of time involved in a good video. It goes both ways.

Agreed.. Those weekend warriors with a camera ruin it for the real videogrophers who will make a USABLE and valuable video fro the ranch.

I am NOT advertising that I will personally bring you more business, because honestly that would be a lie. How many people actually call a ranch that see a number flash on a screen during a hunting show? Not that many...

However how many people contact you on a daily basis that is asking questions about your ranch, do you have pictures? do people actually kill animals? how is the lodging? what does the ranch set up look like?

With a good promotional video (short and long) you can target these customers with the video marketing and they can see for themselves. It is my goal to produce a FANTASTIC marketign tool for the RANCH to use to close sales, and gain business.

The videos are built around the needs of the ranch, not the needs of myself "trying to get a free hunt." as some see it.

This is why I also offer a guarantee. If you provide the one animal for the Kill, and at the end of the video you hate it and think it is a wasted effort and you think you will never use that video to market your ranch, then i will pay for the animal that was provided no questions asked.

I'm going to make one statement here. I am not going to address what happened on your particular weekend at WTF Ranch...... I was not there obviously and have zero knowledge about the agreement or what actually did or did not happen

Roll back to April, 2014. I asked my wife "what do you want for your 40th birthday........contiguous U.S. Is the only limitation "
She said that she simply wanted to go hunting, nothing big, just meat for the freezer.

I found a post from Gladesgator stating that he had some red deer hinds that needed to be taken. I believe it was $400 per hind. I called, booked the hunt, & reserved the hotel room in nacogdoches because he didn't have lodging.
Well the birthday weekend in March comes around and we arrive to a wet, rainy, cool weather weekend. We hunted Friday evening...... nothing but whitetail and blackbuck.
We hunted Saturday morning.... same thing, whitetail and blackbuck.
We did drive around to try and find the red deer and spot and stalk but to no avail.
Saturday evening comes around and it's getting late in the hunt...... nothing but blackbucks. At almost the end of legal shooting light a BIG BRUISER of an axis walks out and Rick says " look, I'm not sure why we are not seeing the red deer. Y'all were going to shoot two for $800......... if your wife wants to take that Axis, kill him and I'll only charge you $1,000..... just $200 more than you were gonna spend. I told him no, I only brought $800 cash with me for the 2 hinds....(times were a bit tougher then)...... Rick says, " no problem, just send the other $200 when you can.




Rick went out of his way to make it a great weekend for my wife and I and regardless of what is said in this post, I'm here to tell ya, Rick is good people and I would not hesitate to recommend him to anyone and if I ever get the chance again, I'd love to hunt with him again

I always find these posts interesting and there is always two sides to a story. But that's one hell of a testimonial.
Nice Axis!

That's a great story! And I am not saying he is a bad guy. Just my experience with it, maybe it was because he was having second thoughts about the promotional video services, I do not know.

But my red flag is when I confronted him about it there was no effort to explain or convince me I was wrong in my assumptions, but held to the actions that lead to my current perception.

I am not perfect and I make judgement mistakes, this experience has taught me a lot and for the other two outfitters I have done since I have gotten the agreements in writing to protect both sides.

What was also strange is that my camera guy was willing to pay extra cash for a second animal to be killed for him, but it still did not make any difference.

Maybe it was just bad timing for my experience and just a string of coincidences, but I am glad you had a great experience.. It makes me feel better about his outfit.

He did seem like a nice guy, but nice does not always translates to a good business experience.

Thanks for the second opinion, and I am sure others are glad for it as well.

Next time, charge the LO to shoot video and avoid trading out on a hunt. Film a paid hunter shoot an animal; I'm sure they would be thrilled. But really, of what real gain/gratification is it to shoot an exotic animal in a pen on video anyway? Getting paid sounds like a much better deal, at least in a pen.

I take the footage and then use it to make a separate video (which also promotes teh ranch) for my YouTube Channel. This is where I make money from y advertisements and sponsors from our website ect..

Most ranches have been burned from a guy holding a camera claiming to get them tons of business from a plug on a show. Most of the time the guy with a camera ends up throwing up a number at the bottom of the screen at the end of the show and nothing comes to the ranch from it.

This is why we offer the video services to produce a video that is fully focused on marketing the ranch. From there the ranch can use the video as they please for their own marketing purposes. And we can then produce a separate show for our channel as well.. Win Win for the ranch and us.

Well, Its a shame that happened to you. I can only imagine what its like to be in that situation as i have luckily never been there. But like .257 guy i have also met and hunted with Rick. I am not defending WTF ranch are trying to make him sound like someone he may or may not be. Just sharing what happened on my hunt.

2 years ago it was my GFs birthday. i offer her an axis doe hunt. She gets to hunt and i get some awesome meat in my freezer. Easy enough. I am from Louisiana so i start looking for the closest places as its late in the winter and i know a lot of people will be shutting down.
I see a posting from Rick and give him a call. He says hes a has a few axis does left as well as some whitetail does. We set a date, we show up at the hotel the night before and arrive at Ricks the next morning on time. He was making his self some eggs for breakfast and offers us some. We chit chat over coffee a bit and then set out to hunt. We only had one day as the next we where headed north for a cow elk near Dallas for me.
In the stand we go. We sit and watch whitetails and blackbucks. One axis doe does come out on the plot about 250 yrds away. Rick says if she feels good about the shot she can shoot it. Shes kinda new to hunting so she declines and says she wait for something closer (Inside 100Yds). we sit a good while but its cold and we are all freezing so we decide to go ride. We come across some Hinds and he offers a smaller one for the same price as the axis. She turns it down saying she wants a rug from an axis. We ride and hunt some more seeing more whitetail and hinds but no axis. that afternoon back in the stand. we sit awhile but no axis come out. there about a dozen whitetail does in the plot and Rick says if we would like we could take one of them. She considers it for awhile but by the time she decides shell take on its to late and they have moved off. We didn't get anything though Rick did try to please us and offered more than one opportunity to make up for the lack of axis movement.
When we where leaving i asked what we owed him and he said simply for what? I said for the day, he told me we didn't get anything so he didn't feel we owed anything. I gave him 150$ for his day of guiding us and we went about our way. I haven't been back since but its not due to anything on his part just been saving for another Africa trip.

I agree he should have been upfront with you if he had changed his mind or was having mixed feelings about the Trade. Either way it should have been voiced so you where both aware of it an could work things out the right way. Hopefully it was just a bad timing thing as you stated are hopefully he didn't take his medication that day, either way i just hate to see someone trying to get into the business(Rick) have issues like that.

Joesph's description of what occurred is so full of fabrications and inaccuracies, I was not going to waste my time responding/dealing with an individual with little integrity.

I was not having second thoughts about the hunt even though, he decided to stop on the way to set up a hog trap on his lease near Livingston. The agreed upon arrival time was 9:30am, got a call a little after 9, that they wouldn't arrive until 1:30 or 2.

He never indicated any issues while hunting Friday afternoon, while eating dinner which I provided just to be nice, or while hunting Saturday morning. If, he had such egregious concerns with the hunt, he had ample opportunities to talk to me about it like a man.

They left after the Saturday morning hunt and plans were made for the afternoon hunt. A few hours later I get a text that they have enough video and are on their way home. So, much for professionalism.

His "confrontation" was describing a much different version of the actually events in a text message to me. The "confrontation text was only in response to me letting him know I wasn't very happy about him just leaving in the middle of the scheduled hunt, as I had reserved the weekend for just him.

I am not wasting any more of my time with this story teller, there are so many untruths in his version, it is a joke. Wrote this small piece because, I don't like my reputation being smeared by someone that the truth is an option.
I am sure he will have more BS. Anyone wanting the full story feel free to call me 903-404-1010.

The only reason I posted on his new advertising post was because he had never responded to my attempts to contact him in private. Have fun, I am out.

Wow talk about fabrication.. I learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Get the agreement in writing which is what I have done since. I also attempted to once again rectify any ill misconceptions and sent him a privet message, once again not an apology for teh perception that was being given. Every post holds true to that.

So ahead and let people know your version I am fine with that as I have many other ranches who will vouch for my services and what we have done for them.

You may be a very good experience for a normal transaction and not a business agreement. I hope that is the case.

Like I said in the privet message, I wish you the best, and I truly hope this was a misconception, but doubt it since every communication I have had has produces the same results. Thank you for teaching me a valuable lesson.

Going back and forth on this forum probably isn't helping either one of you. Sometimes if you can't work it out amongst each other it's best to move on.

agreed

I've hunted with Rick many, many times and have always found him to be great. Lots of game on his place, with some world class Whitetails and Axis Bucks that will get one's heart pumping.