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Great read on Elk in Texas #7990293 09/28/20 12:53 AM
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Hunting Elk in West Texas is gaining some serious traction as populations and popularity increase.


Thought this was an interesting read


https://pitchstonewaters.com/are-elk-native-to-texas-yes/#:~:text=%C2%A0Elk%20were%20only%20native%20to%20a%20small%20area,from%20the%20elk%20that%20live%20in%20Texas%20today.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990342 09/28/20 01:37 AM
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I had always wondered how this came to be. If the info in the article is accurate, which it seems they have done more home work on it than TPWD, it definitely raises a lot of questions. Politics at its finest at work within the TPWD? Sure seems to be. Everyone knows when in a position to do so you make policies and unfounded scientific claims to support your intentions, your deep pocket supporters and the views of a select few to get what you want. No reason at all that these animals both can’t co-exist and be recognized and managed by TPWD. I would argue that domestic sheep (disease), Aoudad (competition for habitat, food sources) and predators (predation) have had and will continue to have the greatest impact on bighorn sheep numbers more than elk will ever have, but that’s simply my opinion. Will be interesting to see how this progresses down the road. The caveat to all of this is the lack of state lands. Private land owners play a major role in this.

Just my opinion once again.

Last edited by Theringworm; 09/28/20 01:48 AM.
Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990354 09/28/20 01:51 AM
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Since the de-listed them it seems elk have grown in population by a good amount


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990410 09/28/20 03:01 AM
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I looked at elk in Texas a lot about 10 years ago and even back when the Elk were a "managed" resource of the state o Texas. Why in the world would elk not be a native creature of Texas, years ago they were plains animals and tthere is sure habitat that can support them. There are cave paintings in Texas with elk in them. I do not remember the source but it aid there was an elk listed in earl B&C books that was take in Denton County Texas in the 1800s in a early edition of B&C that got dropped from the book when the minimum score was increased.

In the delisting of elk it was argued that elk were not native to here and if they were these elk that are here now are not descended from those elk. If by that New Mexico does not have their native Merriam's Elk of many years ago but descendants of elk that were brought in form Yellowstone elk herd that were stocked there. The last report of Merriam's elk in New Mexico were not very far from El Paso.


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990414 09/28/20 03:07 AM
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Great read.

Thank you for sharing that.

Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: llbts1] #7990526 09/28/20 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by llbts1
Great read.

Thank you for sharing that.


That it was up

Last edited by Stub; 09/28/20 11:22 AM.

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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990764 09/28/20 02:34 PM
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Read that 5 or 6 years ago I think. Good study that fell on deaf ears. I agree that they should be managed. There have been a number of elk show up in the panhandle along the Canadian River and in Palo Duro that migrate out of New Mexico. They pretty much get shot on sight. Would be cool to see if they can reestablish themselves in that area!


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: dkershen] #7990772 09/28/20 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dkershen
Read that 5 or 6 years ago I think. Good study that fell on deaf ears. I agree that they should be managed. There have been a number of elk show up in the panhandle along the Canadian River and in Palo Duro that migrate out of New Mexico. They pretty much get shot on sight. Would be cool to see if they can reestablish themselves in that area!


KS/Okla contributed also. Cimarron National Grasslands Elk in KS hit the river bottoms of Beaver, Cimarron and then the Canadian.


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990812 09/28/20 03:19 PM
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So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?


To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: dkershen] #7990821 09/28/20 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?


Why?, I think the current management is perfect. I wish Oklahoma was same plan.

You force a season you force landowners and Farmers to have to deal with severe crop depredation. As it stands now landowners can make the decision to foster them or remove and/or deter them


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: dkershen] #7990826 09/28/20 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?



I'm in. It's ridiculous that they are not treated as a native game animal.

Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7990851 09/28/20 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?


Why?, I think the current management is perfect. I wish Oklahoma was same plan.

You force a season you force landowners and Farmers to have to deal with severe crop depredation. As it stands now landowners can make the decision to foster them or remove and/or deter them



I think TPWD department needs to be involved as little as possible


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7990860 09/28/20 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?


Why?, I think the current management is perfect. I wish Oklahoma was same plan.

You force a season you force landowners and Farmers to have to deal with severe crop depredation. As it stands now landowners can make the decision to foster them or remove and/or deter them

Why? Because they'll never spread outside the current ranches they inhabit. Like I said, the existing coop of ranchers managing elk have done a good job, and it would be easy enough to set them up under an elk MLD program that gives them latitude to manage as they always have.

As an outfitter that manages a ranch that borders Palo Duro Canyon, I've seen several elk show up in the canyon that very quickly get shot by the hunters that draw exotic tags. I'd just as soon have them left alone to see what happens. And I don't mind them coming up out of the canyon and jumping our fence to graze on the winter wheat. Already have a huge mule deer heard doing that now. Just my .02 cents. 2cents


To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990867 09/28/20 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Hunting Elk in West Texas is gaining some serious traction as populations and popularity increase.


Thought this was an interesting read


https://pitchstonewaters.com/are-elk-native-to-texas-yes/#:~:text=%C2%A0Elk%20were%20only%20native%20to%20a%20small%20area,from%20the%20elk%20that%20live%20in%20Texas%20today.


I am going to have some fun with this quote as I know something of the goings-on surrounding it...

Quote
In a 1994 unpublished archaeological report, Brian Shaffer reported the find of a proximal phalange of an elk from the Spider Knoll site, Cooper Lake project, an Early Caddo Indian archaeological site in Delta County, northeast Texas.


Shaffer's 1994 report was not unpublished, but was published in 1994 (hence the date) in an archaeological report through Prewitt & Associates (a contract archaeology firm) for the US Corps of Engineers. These are limited distribution reports usually comprised of just a few hundred copies. However, missed by this article was the fact that Shaffer and his co-authors had a 1995 publication on this specimen as the 2nd claimed physical record of elk in Texas in The Texas Journal of Science, responding to Pfau's 1994 TJS report of the first claimed fossil record in north Texas. Finding the limited print archaeological report but not the actual journal publication struck Shaffer as odd, but he was pleased to have been cited. This was little consolation, however. Back in the early 90s when Shaffer was an upstart graduate student trying to make a name for himself, he was terribly disappointed that he could have beaten Pfau to the claim of the first record, Shaffer having done his analysis and identification of the specimen well BEFORE Pfau's publication, but Shaffer failed to recognize the significance of what he had when he had it. He knew elk specimens were rare from sites in Texas, but did not realize how rare.


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: SherpaPhil] #7990870 09/28/20 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?



I'm in. It's ridiculous that they are not treated as a native game animal.


I’m glad they aren’t!!!! I love elk hunting, it’s my number one love. Texas Private Land Owner Conservation efforts are second to none when it comes to elk, but they shouldn’t be forced.

Perfect example is last years Idaho Crop Deperdation permits study that the state implemented in July. Public went nuts, now farmers are screwed. Elk migrate to food, there no hunting season in July. By September that farmers entire crop is gone and eaten or laid over. Public can persuade regulations to point the ONLY choice landowner have to protect lively hood is High Fence. Guess what happens when one high fences, it congregates elk heavier some where else then more HF goes up until there is zero winter habitat or migration ability

Idaho isn’t the only example, same thing in Nebraska also.

I’ve sat on the side lines watching elk lay over my corn circle before. You cant do crappp, chasing them on 4wheeler etc is consider harassment. Atleast as a exotic I can use non lethal means if I wish

Populations are expanding in Texas where they should expand. We don’t need counter productive regulations


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: SherpaPhil] #7990884 09/28/20 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?



I'm in. It's ridiculous that they are not treated as a native game animal.



By most accounts ( Even Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Supports this ) that very little of Texas was suitable elk habitat, so very little of the state supported elk at all, at any period in history. Everyone pretty much agrees that the northern panhandle and far western Trans-Pecos were the only areas that supported elk populations.

Link to Map Ranges:

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/c249e8b2f6f1402594dd0a096452b8e8



As much as we WANT to believe it, Texas was not teeming with Elk at any time in history. It had an extremely limited range historically, and now probably holds as much or more elk in a more widespread areas than at any point in history. It makes sense that TPWD has delisted them.



And even though i'm a card carrying member of RMEF.....my personal opinion is, that in many scenarios.....Elk are nothing more than a huge PITA



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: dkershen] #7990891 09/28/20 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dkershen
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?


Why?, I think the current management is perfect. I wish Oklahoma was same plan.

You force a season you force landowners and Farmers to have to deal with severe crop depredation. As it stands now landowners can make the decision to foster them or remove and/or deter them

Why? Because they'll never spread outside the current ranches they inhabit. Like I said, the existing coop of ranchers managing elk have done a good job, and it would be easy enough to set them up under an elk MLD program that gives them latitude to manage as they always have.

An an outfitter that manages a ranch that borders Palo Duro Canyon, I've seen several elk show up in the canyon that very quickly get shot by the hunters that draw exotic tags. I'd just as soon have them left alone to see what happens. And I don't mind them coming up out of the canyon and jumping our fence to graze on the winter wheat. Already have a huge mule deer heard doing that now. Just my .02 cents. 2cents


No MLD does not protect summer crops, zero reason to put them into a season. I’ve lost an entire 120 acre corn circle before, in late July.

Elk are expanding and more so expanding to where tolerance allows them. Making them a game animal will just impede on management and build resentment. I watched for 10 years helpless, been down this path already.

What’s great for West Texas isn’t great for the panhandle and vice versa






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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990912 09/28/20 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?


Why?, I think the current management is perfect. I wish Oklahoma was same plan.

You force a season you force landowners and Farmers to have to deal with severe crop depredation. As it stands now landowners can make the decision to foster them or remove and/or deter them



I think TPWD department needs to be involved as little as possible


I agree

Just my .02,
LeonCarr


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990936 09/28/20 05:17 PM
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Very informative read, thanks for sharing!


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7990945 09/28/20 05:23 PM
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And the fact that there were elk in East Texas two centuries ago does not mean that they should be considered a native animal today. I can take you to Grayson county and find sharks teeth but I don't want sharks swimming around lake texoma.

Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7991036 09/28/20 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by dkershen
So..... Thought occurred to me. Isn't it time TPWD reexamined this 23 year old policy? My understanding is that the ranchers that host the primary herds of free ranging West Texas elk have done a good job, but to get Elk reestablished in Texas will take TPWD management. We've got enough hunters in this forum to get a petition to get this on the table. Any interest in forcing their hands at an upcoming session?



I'm in. It's ridiculous that they are not treated as a native game animal.



By most accounts ( Even Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Supports this ) that very little of Texas was suitable elk habitat, so very little of the state supported elk at all, at any period in history. Everyone pretty much agrees that the northern panhandle and far western Trans-Pecos were the only areas that supported elk populations.

Link to Map Ranges:

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/c249e8b2f6f1402594dd0a096452b8e8



As much as we WANT to believe it, Texas was not teeming with Elk at any time in history. It had an extremely limited range historically, and now probably holds as much or more elk in a more widespread areas than at any point in history. It makes sense that TPWD has delisted them.



And even though i'm a card carrying member of RMEF.....my personal opinion is, that in many scenarios.....Elk are nothing more than a huge PITA




West Texas and the Panhandle are larger then some western states, land scape has changed a lot in last 300 years.

I don’t see Western Texas and Northern Texas not having elk. We where a prairie savanna back then, were elk just scared of the red river?


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7991089 09/28/20 07:32 PM
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You don't ever want the govt involved if you can avoid it. Count me in for 'leave it the way it is'.


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: ducknbass] #7991158 09/28/20 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ducknbass
And the fact that there were elk in East Texas two centuries ago does not mean that they should be considered a native animal today. I can take you to Grayson county and find sharks teeth but I don't want sharks swimming around lake texoma.


I want to catch a bullshark below DD. #stockthesharks

Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: Cochise] #7991183 09/28/20 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Cochise
Originally Posted by ducknbass
And the fact that there were elk in East Texas two centuries ago does not mean that they should be considered a native animal today. I can take you to Grayson county and find sharks teeth but I don't want sharks swimming around lake texoma.


I want to catch a bullshark below DD. #stockthesharks


Teal season would be interesting


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Re: Great read on Elk in Texas [Re: txtrophy85] #7991308 09/28/20 11:07 PM
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BOBO, you need to get some of that ELKMO monsanto seed to go with the speedgoatMO seed


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