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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: ARcedar]
#7965086
09/08/20 12:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
Every time I read this thread, I find learn something new.
Thank you Bill for your quick answers. I wish there is a dedicated thread for HAMR reloading. I searched on Hornday site and all online to find these bullets the lowest velocity they expand and couldn't find any.
Do you have any info on the this? (lowest fps for the following bullets)? - 150 Gold Dot - 150 Speer BTSP - 150 Hamr Bonded - 150 SST or any other bullets you offer. It would be nice to know these data too.
Thank you You should get good expansion at the following impact velocities: 125gr Sierra SPT PH 1700fps 130gr HAM'R HOT-COR 1800fps 135gr HAM'R BONDED 1800fps 135gr FTX 1600fps 150gr Gold Dot (Blackout version) 1600fps 150gr Speer BTSP 1800fps 150gr SST (300 Savage version) 1700fps I've never had any of the above bullets fail to properly expand on a game animal out to a range of 300yds.. My longest shot has been a whitetail buck last season at 315yds and the bullet did it's job
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7965111
09/08/20 01:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12
ARcedar
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12 |
Many many thanks to you Bill for your fast response!! I really appreciate the time put by you and other in this thread...this had a huge impact on my decision to go with the HAMR.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: Wilson Combat]
#7966882
09/09/20 04:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12
ARcedar
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12 |
150gr Speer Gold Dot at 2300fps and a 175yd zero
100yds +1.8" 2139fps, 1523fp 150yds +1.1" 2060fps, 1414fp 200yds -1.6" 1984fps, 1311fp 250yds -6.5" 1909fps, 1214fp 300yds -13.8" 1836fps, 1123fp
Gel testing and recovered bullets have already proven that this bullet will expand to 1/2" at a impact velocity of 1820fps and penetrate 22"+
Source for trajectory data was the Hornady ballistic calculator
Bill, Was this 150 GD tested in real yardage velocity check? I am asking to see if the Speer listed BC at 0.463 is for real. It seems a little optimistic and I usually look at real data at certain distance how the bullet behave. Anyone checked if their BC is close to true? On that same note, I went to order some 150 ammo and I didn't see the bullet nor the 150 GD ammo available for purchase. Are you getting it back? One last thing, Do you have the velocity threshold for the 150 Hamr Bonded for expansion? Thanks again
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: ARcedar]
#7967163
09/09/20 07:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
150gr Speer Gold Dot at 2300fps and a 175yd zero
100yds +1.8" 2139fps, 1523fp 150yds +1.1" 2060fps, 1414fp 200yds -1.6" 1984fps, 1311fp 250yds -6.5" 1909fps, 1214fp 300yds -13.8" 1836fps, 1123fp
Gel testing and recovered bullets have already proven that this bullet will expand to 1/2" at a impact velocity of 1820fps and penetrate 22"+
Source for trajectory data was the Hornady ballistic calculator
Bill, Was this 150 GD tested in real yardage velocity check? I am asking to see if the Speer listed BC at 0.463 is for real. It seems a little optimistic and I usually look at real data at certain distance how the bullet behave. Anyone checked if their BC is close to true? On that same note, I went to order some 150 ammo and I didn't see the bullet nor the 150 GD ammo available for purchase. Are you getting it back? One last thing, Do you have the velocity threshold for the 150 Hamr Bonded for expansion? Thanks again The .463BC Speer lists can't possibly we correct for the 150 BLKGDB, using my Labradar I'm getting a BC of .326 I'm confident this bullet will expand at a impact velocity of 1800fps, probably lower since it's designed for the Blackout. We don't load this bullet commercially since Speer doesn't sell it bulk for OEM, we'd have to buy them in 50ct boxes.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7968348
09/10/20 02:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12
ARcedar
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12 |
Thanks Bill. That's what i figured. Way over rated from the Speer website. That's why I like your real work experience on these type of things. What about the 150 Hamr Bonded. I dont see it on their website but it seems exclusive to WC. the BC listed at 0.387. Is that based on your calculation? I hope so, because I will trust that instead By the way, You had mentioned that you will be testing a barrel with 11 twist soon. How this went if any?
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: ARcedar]
#7968529
09/10/20 04:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
Thanks Bill. That's what i figured. Way over rated from the Speer website. That's why I like your real work experience on these type of things. What about the 150 Hamr Bonded. I dont see it on their website but it seems exclusive to WC. the BC listed at 0.387. Is that based on your calculation? I hope so, because I will trust that instead By the way, You had mentioned that you will be testing a barrel with 11 twist soon. How this went if any? I think the .387BC is reasonably close on the 150gr bonded This specific 1-11 didn't shoot the 160gr FTX any better than any other twist, which means poorly (2"-3") so I've given up on this bullet as just being inaccurate. It does however shoot most 150gr VERY well and the 150gr Speer BTSP exceptionally well (.75"-1"). It also shoots the 135FTX super accurate (.3"-.7") and almost to the same POI as the 150BTSP so those two loads are what I settled on for this bbl.. Based on the 10k+ rounds of HAM'R I've shot the Sierra 125gr SPT PH and the Hornady 135gr FTX are overall the two most accurate bullets. The 135FTX is the only bullet that doesn't seem to care what the velocity is for good accuracy, I've shot it from 2350fps to 2450fps and it shot well at all velocities. DISCLAIMER: Anything over 2375fps from a 16" or 2400fps from a 18" will be over MAX with the 135FTX!!! As a FYI Hornady's recommended MV range for this bullet is 1600-2300fps since it's designed for the Blackout, so I stand corrected on a previous post, I'd expect this bullet to expand down to a impact velocity of 1300-1400fps
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7968543
09/10/20 04:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12
ARcedar
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12 |
Thank you for getting back to us on that experiment. Any plans to offer this twist rate in a 16" barrel?
Do you have the impact velocity for good expansion for the 150 Bonded? I am guessing the above number is for the 135 FTX.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: ARcedar]
#7968577
09/10/20 04:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
Thank you for getting back to us on that experiment. Any plans to offer this twist rate in a 16" barrel?
Do you have the impact velocity for good expansion for the 150 Bonded? I am guessing the above number is for the 135 FTX. No plans for any twist other than the following: 8" 1-11.25 11.3" 1-11.25 14.7" - 20" 1-13 and 1-15 The 150 Bonded is a real tough bullet, I wouldn't count on much expansion below 1800fps impact
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7969756
09/11/20 02:43 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58
eugenesan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58 |
I have a question regarding primers.
Since it's almost impossible to find CCI #450, I've managed to get CCI #41. From what I could find they should be identical "magnum" primers only that #41's anvil is located a bit farther to increase safety (which should allow carrying loaded rifle on the hunts, more safely).
I wonder if mu assumption that #41 can be safely used in 300hamr correct and if anyone have experience using those?
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: eugenesan]
#7969867
09/11/20 03:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 182
OddJob94
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 182 |
I did a test using the Military #41 and the main difference I found was it widened my extreme spreads, no average velocity change to speak of. I was running the 135 FTX and using standard primers I had an average velocity of 2466 fps and an extreme spread of 18 fps with a S.O.D. of 6.8 and with the 41 it put my average at 2462 fps, extreme spreads to 45fps, and 17.4 S.O.D.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: OddJob94]
#7970316
09/11/20 10:23 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58
eugenesan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58 |
I did a test using the Military #41 and the main difference I found was it widened my extreme spreads, no average velocity change to speak of. I was running the 135 FTX and using standard primers I had an average velocity of 2466 fps and an extreme spread of 18 fps with a S.O.D. of 6.8 and with the 41 it put my average at 2462 fps, extreme spreads to 45fps, and 17.4 S.O.D. Thanks for the information. I still wonder how military primers compare to magnums Wilson Combat recommend for 300hamr.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: eugenesan]
#7970776
09/12/20 12:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
I have a question regarding primers.
Since it's almost impossible to find CCI #450, I've managed to get CCI #41. From what I could find they should be identical "magnum" primers only that #41's anvil is located a bit farther to increase safety (which should allow carrying loaded rifle on the hunts, more safely).
I wonder if mu assumption that #41 can be safely used in 300hamr correct and if anyone have experience using those?
I've used 41s, 400s and Fed AR primers with no issues, 450s just seem to produce the most consistent loads
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7970994
09/12/20 04:37 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 290
Graycard
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 290 |
For years I had wondered about the comparison of various primers. When I started playing with the HAM'R I decided it was time to put them all to the test. I loaded Winchester WSR, Federal 205, Remington 7 1/2 and CCI 400. 450. and 41 all using the same load of CFE-BLK. and Speer's 130 gr. HC. All of the loads used once fired Starline "300 HAM'R" brass. (In other words, I tried all of the primers my gun shop had available.)
The first thing I noticed was that the Remington 7 1/2 BR primers did not fit as "snug" as the other brands. Plus, I didn't notice any advantage in using a "bench-rest" primer. The Winchester and CCI gave me the most uniform results in Velocity, ES, and SD. The CCI 450 and 41 have a harder cup than the 400, but the performance was about the same. Since the harder cup is a bit safer when it comes to a slam-fire situation I prefer the 450 & 41's. I found the 450 to be cheaper, more available, and they gave a very slight edge in performance, I have chosen to use them. However, the Winchester and CCI 400 were close enough that I wouldn't feel bad about using either one.
The truth is, out of the ones I tried, I didn't find any primer that really stood out and yelled "use me" when compared to the others. I could not say you were wrong no matter what you used. I just prefer a snug fit, slightly harder cup and consistent performance.
(Before you wonder how I judged the "hardness' of the cup used with the 450 & 41 let me explain. I have one rifle than will misfire with the harder cups due to a lighter spring. The CCI 400's fire every time, but the 450's and 41's will give me light primer hits.)
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7973435
09/14/20 04:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12
ARcedar
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12 |
I was looking at the bullets list offered by Mr Wilson for the Ham'r and found one that is or should be good but couldn't find any data so I am asking if anyone ever used it and measure the accuracy @ 100 yards and Muzzle velocity. The bullet is "150 gr Nosler Partition (spitzer)". The only issue I see is the length at 1.10"...But it was listed so I am guessing it an OK round for the cartridge.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: ARcedar]
#7973817
09/14/20 10:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
I was looking at the bullets list offered by Mr Wilson for the Ham'r and found one that is or should be good but couldn't find any data so I am asking if anyone ever used it and measure the accuracy @ 100 yards and Muzzle velocity. The bullet is "150 gr Nosler Partition (spitzer)". The only issue I see is the length at 1.10"...But it was listed so I am guessing it an OK round for the cartridge. This bullet "will work", but is not a very good choice for the following reasons: It's designed for more velocity than we can achieve with the HAM'R, thus making it a very tough bullet Due to it's design it causes the loads to generate more pressure at lower velocity any most other 150gr choices, especially the Speer 150gr BTSP which generates the lowest pressure thus allowing for the highest velocity of any 150gr bullet If you want a 150gr bullet these are the GOOD choices: Hornady 150gr SST (#30303 Savage variant) Speer 150gr BTSP HOT-COR Speer 150gr Gold Dot (.300BLK variant) Speer 150gr HAM'R BONDED My GO TO bullets for hogs are the SST and BTSP
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7976315
09/16/20 04:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12
ARcedar
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 12 |
Good to know Bill. Thank you!
I have ordered bunch of 150 ammo and we will try it once I have them. But I couldn't find any bullets in 150 gr for sale, are you getting any soon?
And can you provide the bullet length for these: 150 HAMR BONDED 150 Gold Dot
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: ARcedar]
#7976832
09/16/20 09:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
Good to know Bill. Thank you!
I have ordered bunch of 150 ammo and we will try it once I have them. But I couldn't find any bullets in 150 gr for sale, are you getting any soon?
And can you provide the bullet length for these: 150 HAMR BONDED 150 Gold Dot
We buy most of the bullets bulk for OEM use to mfg ammo and are not allowed by the mfg to sell them as components. 150gr HAM'R BONDED 1.065" 150gr GOLD DOT (BLK variant) 1.040"
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7977111
09/17/20 01:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 111
SwatDude1
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 111 |
Bill,
Quite a few pages back you spoke of using a single gas ring on the AR bolt. Do you sell this on your site? I couldn't find it.
Thanks,
Bryan
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: SwatDude1]
#7977893
09/17/20 03:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
Bill,
Quite a few pages back you spoke of using a single gas ring on the AR bolt. Do you sell this on your site? I couldn't find it.
Thanks,
Bryan Bryan, Tks for bringing to my attention that we don't have the gas rings listed as an accessory, we're fixing that today and they should be up and available by tomorrow. $8.95 for a package of 3
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7977969
09/17/20 04:45 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58
eugenesan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58 |
I wonder if anyone tried Vihtavuori N120 in 300hamr? My testing shows that it is great in 300blk subsonic and requires ~5% less powder for similar performance as CFEBlk. I know it costs ~25% more but it is significantly cleaner, more consistent, easier to get (due to low demand) and might provide better performance than CFEBlk. In addition if N120 do not generate max pressure , N110 might be an option ;-)
Last edited by eugenesan; 09/17/20 04:47 PM.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: eugenesan]
#7978028
09/17/20 05:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218
Wilson Combat
Boar Meister
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Boar Meister
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,218 |
I wonder if anyone tried Vihtavuori N120 in 300hamr? My testing shows that it is great in 300blk subsonic and requires ~5% less powder for similar performance as CFEBlk. I know it costs ~25% more but it is significantly cleaner, more consistent, easier to get (due to low demand) and might provide better performance than CFEBlk. In addition if N120 do not generate max pressure , N110 might be an option ;-)
Trust me, I've tried EVERY powder that I thought would be remotely viable including N120. It's been awhile, but as I remember I ran out of powder capacity before I got decent velocity. H110 is too fast except for possibly the 95-110gr loads and it pressure spikes quickly. Based on all the testing and pressure data I don't think there are any powders available that will come close to the cartridge potential other than CFEBLK, A1680, Blackout and SOCOM. I don't like any powder except CFEBLK for 135gr bullets or heavier. However IF your willing to give up 100fps there are other choices like N120 that will give good accuracy. Bullets that are designed for the Blackout like the Hornady 135gr FTX and Speer 150gr Gold Dot (Blackout variant) or varmint bullets like the Hornady 110gr SP and Speer 130gr HP perform fine on game at the lower velocities. Also unless the gun is overgassed with CFEBLK and your running a Mil-Spec buffer/spring the faster powders like H110 can give function issues.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: Wilson Combat]
#7978036
09/17/20 05:32 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58
eugenesan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58 |
I wonder if anyone tried Vihtavuori N120 in 300hamr? My testing shows that it is great in 300blk subsonic and requires ~5% less powder for similar performance as CFEBlk. I know it costs ~25% more but it is significantly cleaner, more consistent, easier to get (due to low demand) and might provide better performance than CFEBlk. In addition if N120 do not generate max pressure , N110 might be an option ;-)
Trust me, I've tried EVERY powder that I thought would be remotely viable including N120. It's been awhile, but as I remember I ran out of powder capacity before I got decent velocity. H110 is too fast except for possibly the 95-110gr loads and it pressure spikes quickly. Based on all the testing and pressure data I don't think there are any powders available that will come close to the cartridge potential other than CFEBLK, A1680, Blackout and SOCOM. I don't like any powder except CFEBLK for 135gr bullets or heavier. However IF your willing to give up 100fps there are other choices like N120 that will give good accuracy. Bullets that are designed for the Blackout like the Hornady 135gr FTX and Speer 150gr Gold Dot (Blackout variant) or varmint bullets like the Hornady 110gr SP and Speer 130gr HP perform fine on game at the lower velocities. Also unless the gun is overgassed with CFEBLK and your running a Mil-Spec buffer/spring the faster powders like H110 can give function issues. As always, thank you for detailed and prompt answer!
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: Graycard]
#7978420
09/17/20 10:57 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58
eugenesan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58 |
The boys I hunt/shoot with and myself have formed close to 10,000 cases using surplus and new Lake City brass. We cut it to 1.63" using a small Harbor Freight chop saw. and then run it through a RCBS full length sizing die on a single stage press to expand it to .30 caliber. We give it a final trim using a Giraud trimmer if needed. From there we go to the loading process on a Dillon 550. The forming isn't the most exciting part of reloading but you only have to do it once. With 3-4 of use taking part it really isn't that bad and you would be surprised at how many rounds you can turn out in a weekend. The only lag is the cleaning process to get the lube off between forming and final loading. The hardest part of the reloading process is having to listen to Benny (our designated chop saw operator) tell us about taking his eight pointer with the HAM'R this past hunting season, over and over again. But he is probably on another forum this morning complaining about having to listen to me recounting the back to back doubles I made hunting hogs. I've used @Graycard's instructions as a basis for my brass conversion procedure and here it is: 1. I cut 5.56mm brass to 1.606 on HarborFreight saw with slightly modified Squirrel Daddy Deluxe 300 Blackout Jig. 2. I use Lee 300hamr full length sizing die (from PaceSetter kit #91564) to size the brass. Brass length doesn't change during sizing. The trick for proper sizing, is what I call a "Double Tap" method (I've learned that trick while sizing 300blk). The idea is to size each case twice, as quick as possible (usually I do not even lower the case from the die fully before inserting it again). My theory is that the second pass acts a "forging" since the brass (especially the neck) is still hot from the first sizing (if you quick enough). Without the "DoubleTap" sizing, the resulting dimensions are inconsistent and will often fail case gauge test. The other option is to "over-size" the case which IMHO will shorten case lifespan and might cause headspace issues. 3. I trim the case to 1.594 (identical to factory brass) using Lee Quick Power Trim Deluxe and Lee Quick Trim die. I was lucky to pick up the last QT die directly from Lee. Part #91609, maybe they will do another run if there is an interest. The conversion process is surprisingly quick and easy. When comparing to 300blk conversion, sizing is takes less effort and trimming is significantly faster. P.S. While sizing I use, what seems to be (at least I've never heard anyone using it), unique case lubrication method. I use small plastic box (big enough to contain 25-35 cases, put a drop of lanolin, shake it for 10-15 seconds and size the brass. After the brass is sized, lanolin can be easily wiped using paper towel. To my knowledge, no other method is as quick, smooth, cheap and efficient as that one. Since lanolin is organic substance it doesn't affect the powder/primers and it will soften your skin as a pleasant side effect ;-)
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: Wilson Combat]
#7978661
09/18/20 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 111
SwatDude1
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 111 |
Sweet. Thanks Bill. Can't tell you enough how awesome it is to have you on this forum.
Last edited by SwatDude1; 09/18/20 02:26 AM.
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Re: WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R
[Re: dlrz71]
#7980687
09/20/20 12:14 AM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58
eugenesan
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 58 |
I wonder if Hornady 150gr InterLockĀ® BTSP (#3033) is usable in 300hamr? It seems to have similar characteristics to Speer BTSP and Hornady SST, should expand down to 1950fps and it is readily available.
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