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Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Kevin_M] #7912555 07/25/20 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin_M
When my team trains employees on the fundamentals of working on UPS', inverters, DC plant and things like that at some point we'll always end up telling them that a general rule to keep them safe is that " Most mistakes working with AC will hurt you however most mistakes with DC will kill you"


Interesting, is that because of the amperage involved in DC vs AC, or is it the form of the current that actually makes it more deadly?


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: skinnerback] #7912558 07/25/20 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnerback
Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
I started as and electrician apprentice a few weeks ago, and I will be starting IEC in the fall. Any advice from some seasoned electricians would be greatly appreciated.



I spent a few decades as an Electrician, started fresh out of High School as a helper/apprentice and worked my way up to Master Electrician, Foreman, Superintendent, Inspector etc. This is what I did when I was coming up as an apprentice in the 90's, and what I told my oldest Son who is currently an apprentice paying his dues. Buy yourself an Ugly's Book (Electrical) and study it every day (just a little, every chance you get). Start with definitions and memorize them. Then start memorizing your conduit bending formulas (multipliers). Laminate a little cheat sheet and keep it on you, test yourself (your memory) regularly. Then start memorizing how many/what size & type conductors can legally fit in what size conduit. Memorize all of the different conduit fittings, the different types of cable & wiring, and memorize as many abbreviations as you can. There's a TON more to learn, but that's a good start. You will be ahead of the others if you dedicate yourself to studying/memorizing the above mentioned.

The most important advice I can give you is this. Never, under any circumstances, take anyone's word that a circuit you are about to work on is locked out. If you are going to put your hands on anything, ALWAYS verify that 1) you are working on the correct circuit and 2) verify YOURSELF that the circuit is de-energized and locked out/tagged out properly. Invest in a meter and learn how to use it. I was 18 when I first learned this lesson. My Foreman almost killed me. I cut into 277V on a lighting circuit that my Foreman had locked out for me. Blew up, knocked me off of a 12' ladder and I landed on a steel deck. Yes it hurt. Later in life I watched one of my best friends die of electrocution (480V) because he took our Supervisor's word on an energy isolation. I have many more stories, but I'm not telling you all of this to scare you. Electricity is nothing to be afraid of, but it demands respect. If you don't know something, ask. If you're working with an old crotchety Journeyman (I worked under a few) that doesn't like you asking 50 questions during the day every day while he's trying to focus on what he's doing, then save your questions. Write them down in a tally book/notepad and ask questions when it's a better time.

Holler at me if you ever need anything.


Thanks for taking the time to reply. Thats a lot of good advice. I just ordered and Ugly's book.

The guys I have worked under so far don't mind me asking questions, but sometimes they can't answer them. I have only worked under other apprentices so far. =/


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Cast] #7912559 07/25/20 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cast
Remember this:

There’s old electricians and there’s bold electricians, but there’s no old, bold electricians.

And what the Navy taught me:

When you’re working a hot circuit, put one hand in your back pocket.



I was told LEFT hand in pocket. As an HVAC guy, I diagnose hot often.

Last edited by Lazyjack; 07/25/20 01:01 PM.

If the 2nd amendment was written just to include guns for hunting, why is there not an amendment to protect fishing poles?
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: ducknbass] #7912565 07/25/20 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ducknbass
Electrician by trade. Good field. I made it through the dot-com bust then 9-11 never a short check.

Cast hot work is rare as a leprechaun riding unicorn.

Don't quit IEC.
Who you going to work for?

If your on a big job it can get monotonous. Same thing over and over and over. I've seen guys 4byears in that had never done anything but underground, or roughing in walls. Try real hard not to end up like that. Service department is better for learning as a green hand I think.

When there is idle time pick up trash, organize your material etc don't get caught with your hands in your pocket it staring at your phone.

Pm me who you go to work for. Chances are I may know someone. Small industry really.


I am on a huge job, its started a year ago, and has 2 or 3 more years to go. And to make it worse it is a govt job. I have already spent 10-12 hours sitting or standing around doing nothing because we were waiting for the govt or other contractors.
I'll PM you my company.


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: pdr55] #7912571 07/25/20 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pdr55
Start buying electrical tools.
Get all the basics first, Kleins, sidecutters, good screwdrivers, and a leather tool bag and leather belt.
Buy quality tools !!! Pay attention to your JM !


Thankfully, from another life/career, I have pretty much all the basics, and most of them are Klein. I do only have a tool bag now though. My first big purchase will probably be a tool belt. I am still trying to figure out what I need/want in one though.


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: decook] #7912574 07/25/20 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by decook
Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
I started as and electrician apprentice a few weeks ago, and I will be starting IEC in the fall. Any advice from some seasoned electricians would be greatly appreciated.

All I can offer you is a congratulations. Good on you - have fun and make the most of it!


Thanks!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: oldoak2000] #7912575 07/25/20 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by oldoak2000
Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
I started as and electrician apprentice a few weeks ago, and I will be starting IEC in the fall. Any advice from some seasoned electricians would be greatly appreciated.


A faulty neutral line can zap you just as good as a live line - don't ask me how I know - test everything (including grounds) before grabbing hold! eek2


Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Cast] #7912585 07/25/20 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cast
Oh! Never wear jewelry. No rings, watches, bracelets, necklaces, earrings or anything else metallic.


I usually wear a Garmin watch with a rubber band, it does have a metal clasp though. I am surprised no one has said anything yet. I know not to wear my wedding ring though.


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Hicksbuilt] #7912599 07/25/20 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
Originally Posted by Cast
Remember this:

There’s old electricians and there’s bold electricians, but there’s no old, bold electricians.

And what the Navy taught me:

When you’re working a hot circuit, put one hand in your back pocket.


The first sounds like it could be my new motto.

But I don't get the one hand in your back pocket...

With one hand in your back pocket you will not forget and grab a ground source. I have seen many a young electrician get their hand slapped off of a panel using it to brace themselves.

Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Hicksbuilt] #7912615 07/25/20 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
Originally Posted by Kevin_M
When my team trains employees on the fundamentals of working on UPS', inverters, DC plant and things like that at some point we'll always end up telling them that a general rule to keep them safe is that " Most mistakes working with AC will hurt you however most mistakes with DC will kill you"


Interesting, is that because of the amperage involved in DC vs AC, or is it the form of the current that actually makes it more deadly?


Not sure how likely that is in most jobs or equipment you would work on, DC has to go from positive to negative which is generally close proximity and AC just needs any path to ground to complete the circuit. which may be through an arm, chest and legs. I've laid my sweaty arm across DC circuits before and it got my attention in a less abrupt manner than AC.

The advice about neutrals doesn't get enough attention, an open neutral causes all kind of problems that can bite you. Keep in mind the neutral conductor carries the same current as the hot conductor in 120v single phase circuits and carries the unbalanced current load in other circuits. If you are working in a building with 3 phase wiring with a shared neutral wire and a neutral path is broken you could see 240v between a neutral and 1 hot upstream of the open neutral. Learning to use a meter to check between hots, hot-neutral and neutral-ground with a meter before all else will prevent most accidents. Kind of like treating all guns as loaded you should treat all circuits as hot.

Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: skinnerback] #7912690 07/25/20 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnerback
Originally Posted by ducknbass
When there is idle time pick up trash, organize your material etc don't get caught with your hands in your pocket it staring at your phone.



Good advice, or pick up a broom. Be self motivated, do things without having to be told first. You’d be surprised
who is watching when you think no one is. Like I told my Son, when on a job site...walk with a purpose, no lolly gagging or f’n around. In my crew running days, one of my biggest peevs was helpers with lead in their [censored]. Walk with a purpose and stay focused on what you’re doing.



Thanks for the tip!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: jphunts6165] #7912691 07/25/20 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jphunts6165
#1. As Cast said never trust anyone that something is turned off. Always start from the furthest incoming source of power and work your way to where you are supposed to be. Have know people killed from jack wagons bypassing disconnects or adding jumpers to thing to “make things run until you get there.”
-Wear the equipment you are supposed to PPE./ Use the correct tools. Things can blow up for no rhyme or reason.
-Use your references, ugly book, electric books, maybee a course books and apply it to what you are learning hands on. It will help you learn by reading and seeing at the same time. Also get to know others in the industry. And use them to lean on as well. Your teacher could be a freelancer that could take shortcuts. Personal experience here with that one. That’s the way we have always done it.
-Don’t be scared, have a healthy respect and if you don’t feel comfortable don’t do it. Stop regroup and figure the finer details of the job out.
*Aways approach everything as hot*


Sounds like good advice, thanks!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Gary Olson] #7912692 07/25/20 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Olson
Originally Posted by Cast
Oh! Never wear jewelry. No rings, watches, bracelets, necklaces, earrings or anything else metallic.

One guy working for me would not remove the chain bracelet someone "special" to him gave him to wear. 12 volts DC and 14 amps of UPS power grounding thru his arm and some charring on his special bracelet changed his work habits.
Know the weight limits for lifting cable and equipment. You have only one back, use it wisely.


Ouch, glad I'm not a jewelry guy. Thanks!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Adchunts] #7912693 07/25/20 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Adchunts
Some excellent advice above.

I will reiterate what Cast and others said. NEVER, EVER take anyone’s word regarding your safety. That is your responsibility, take it seriously.

Buy quality tools. Not only does it make the job easier, but eventually you will buy them anyway when the cheap stuff lets you down.

Learn from the old guys. They have done it long enough to know the tricks that make it easier.

Good luck! I kinda wish I would have stayed in that field.

Thanks!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Old Rabbit] #7912696 07/25/20 03:13 PM
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Ah ok that makes sense.


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Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Paluxy] #7912698 07/25/20 03:15 PM
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Interesting, thanks!


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Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Hicksbuilt] #7912787 07/25/20 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
Originally Posted by Gary Olson
Originally Posted by Cast
Oh! Never wear jewelry. No rings, watches, bracelets, necklaces, earrings or anything else metallic.

One guy working for me would not remove the chain bracelet someone "special" to him gave him to wear. 12 volts DC and 14 amps of UPS power grounding thru his arm and some charring on his special bracelet changed his work habits.
Know the weight limits for lifting cable and equipment. You have only one back, use it wisely.


Ouch, glad I'm not a jewelry guy. Thanks!


Not mention the danger of getting it caught on something. Plus, you will destroy it. This is not desk job for a pretty boy.
You will earn your wages and be proud of contribution to society. You will sleep well at night knowing some one is comfortable and safe because of your work.


If the 2nd amendment was written just to include guns for hunting, why is there not an amendment to protect fishing poles?
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Hicksbuilt] #7912862 07/25/20 06:09 PM
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I have put a few guys through IEC. Crazy that some of them will do three years and then drop it, and never get a license. Stick it out.
I have only known one that dropped it because he went ahead and got his license.
Learn how electricity works (IEC will help with this). I know journeyman that are clueless and could get themselves killed.
When someone shows you something, look it up and learn why.

Looking ahead...
When it comes time for the journeyman test, take it as soon as you can. You need to live the test. What I mean is every hour in the truck on the road (if not driving), sitting at home on days off, break time, etc, study. And study as if you were trying for 100%. I have heard too many guys say, "I only need a 70 percent" and they get a 60. When I did my journeyman test, I could have easily passed the masters test, I just had to wait four years (now only two years) to do that.

skinnerback nailed it, memorize everything. When I was studying I had 100 index cards that I did everyday with NEC tables, sections, chapters, definitions, etc. I would go through them, then flip them over and do them again. Take bunches of practice test. Do not just blow through them on guesses, sit and take it as if it were the real thing, look up the answers.


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Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Simple Searcher] #7912903 07/25/20 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Simple Searcher
I have put a few guys through IEC. Crazy that some of them will do three years and then drop it, and never get a license. Stick it out.
I have only known one that dropped it because he went ahead and got his license.
Learn how electricity works (IEC will help with this). I know journeyman that are clueless and could get themselves killed.
When someone shows you something, look it up and learn why.

Looking ahead...
When it comes time for the journeyman test, take it as soon as you can. You need to live the test. What I mean is every hour in the truck on the road (if not driving), sitting at home on days off, break time, etc, study. And study as if you were trying for 100%. I have heard too many guys say, "I only need a 70 percent" and they get a 60. When I did my journeyman test, I could have easily passed the masters test, I just had to wait four years (now only two years) to do that.

skinnerback nailed it, memorize everything. When I was studying I had 100 index cards that I did everyday with NEC tables, sections, chapters, definitions, etc. I would go through them, then flip them over and do them again. Take bunches of practice test. Do not just blow through them on guesses, sit and take it as if it were the real thing, look up the answers.


Thanks. So the guy who dropped early and got his license. Would you recommend that if possible?


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Hicksbuilt] #7913033 07/25/20 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
Originally Posted by Simple Searcher
I have put a few guys through IEC. Crazy that some of them will do three years and then drop it, and never get a license. Stick it out.
I have only known one that dropped it because he went ahead and got his license.
Learn how electricity works (IEC will help with this). I know journeyman that are clueless and could get themselves killed.
When someone shows you something, look it up and learn why.

Looking ahead...
When it comes time for the journeyman test, take it as soon as you can. You need to live the test. What I mean is every hour in the truck on the road (if not driving), sitting at home on days off, break time, etc, study. And study as if you were trying for 100%. I have heard too many guys say, "I only need a 70 percent" and they get a 60. When I did my journeyman test, I could have easily passed the masters test, I just had to wait four years (now only two years) to do that.

skinnerback nailed it, memorize everything. When I was studying I had 100 index cards that I did everyday with NEC tables, sections, chapters, definitions, etc. I would go through them, then flip them over and do them again. Take bunches of practice test. Do not just blow through them on guesses, sit and take it as if it were the real thing, look up the answers.


Thanks. So the guy who dropped early and got his license. Would you recommend that if possible?

That is a personal call on where you stand. The guy I referenced had plenty of previous hours and was an amazing outgoing person, he quit the school after the first year. He was thoroughly bored to tears as he was learning on his own at a much faster pace. He went on to get three master licenses, this was back in the day before the state license, when you had to get a license in every major city. Clearly this worked for him.
Completing the program can be a feather in your cap, we encourage our guys to. If you start the schooling when you start as an electrician, the four year schooling fits the mold as it matches the 4 years the state requires for testing. Stopping a semester short just seems like a waste.
That being said, get that license ASAP. Finishing the school afterwards can be decided later.


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Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Simple Searcher] #7913484 07/26/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Simple Searcher
Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
Originally Posted by Simple Searcher
I have put a few guys through IEC. Crazy that some of them will do three years and then drop it, and never get a license. Stick it out.
I have only known one that dropped it because he went ahead and got his license.
Learn how electricity works (IEC will help with this). I know journeyman that are clueless and could get themselves killed.
When someone shows you something, look it up and learn why.

Looking ahead...
When it comes time for the journeyman test, take it as soon as you can. You need to live the test. What I mean is every hour in the truck on the road (if not driving), sitting at home on days off, break time, etc, study. And study as if you were trying for 100%. I have heard too many guys say, "I only need a 70 percent" and they get a 60. When I did my journeyman test, I could have easily passed the masters test, I just had to wait four years (now only two years) to do that.

skinnerback nailed it, memorize everything. When I was studying I had 100 index cards that I did everyday with NEC tables, sections, chapters, definitions, etc. I would go through them, then flip them over and do them again. Take bunches of practice test. Do not just blow through them on guesses, sit and take it as if it were the real thing, look up the answers.


Thanks. So the guy who dropped early and got his license. Would you recommend that if possible?

That is a personal call on where you stand. The guy I referenced had plenty of previous hours and was an amazing outgoing person, he quit the school after the first year. He was thoroughly bored to tears as he was learning on his own at a much faster pace. He went on to get three master licenses, this was back in the day before the state license, when you had to get a license in every major city. Clearly this worked for him.
Completing the program can be a feather in your cap, we encourage our guys to. If you start the schooling when you start as an electrician, the four year schooling fits the mold as it matches the 4 years the state requires for testing. Stopping a semester short just seems like a waste.
That being said, get that license ASAP. Finishing the school afterwards can be decided later.


I am a bit of an anomaly as an electrician apprentice, I have an engineering degree, so I think I could study and pass the test on my own if needed. But unless I start getting a lot of overtime at work, I won't have the hours to even sit for the test until close to the end of IEC. Thanks for all the info!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: jphunts6165] #7913514 07/26/20 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnerback
Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt
I started as and electrician apprentice a few weeks ago, and I will be starting IEC in the fall. Any advice from some seasoned electricians would be greatly appreciated.



I spent a few decades as an Electrician, started fresh out of High School as a helper/apprentice and worked my way up to Master Electrician, Foreman, Superintendent, Inspector etc. This is what I did when I was coming up as an apprentice in the 90's, and what I told my oldest Son who is currently an apprentice paying his dues. Buy yourself an Ugly's Book (Electrical) and study it every day (just a little, every chance you get). Start with definitions and memorize them. Then start memorizing your conduit bending formulas (multipliers). Laminate a little cheat sheet and keep it on you, test yourself (your memory) regularly. Then start memorizing how many/what size & type conductors can legally fit in what size conduit. Memorize all of the different conduit fittings, the different types of cable & wiring, and memorize as many abbreviations as you can. There's a TON more to learn, but that's a good start. You will be ahead of the others if you dedicate yourself to studying/memorizing the above mentioned.

The most important advice I can give you is this. Never, under any circumstances, take anyone's word that a circuit you are about to work on is locked out. If you are going to put your hands on anything, ALWAYS verify that 1) you are working on the correct circuit and 2) verify YOURSELF that the circuit is de-energized and locked out/tagged out properly. Invest in a meter and learn how to use it. I was 18 when I first learned this lesson. My Foreman almost killed me. I cut into 277V on a lighting circuit that my Foreman had locked out for me. Blew up, knocked me off of a 12' ladder and I landed on a steel deck. Yes it hurt. Later in life I watched one of my best friends die of electrocution (480V) because he took our Supervisor's word on an energy isolation. I have many more stories, but I'm not telling you all of this to scare you. Electricity is nothing to be afraid of, but it demands respect. If you don't know something, ask. If you're working with an old crotchety Journeyman (I worked under a few) that doesn't like you asking 50 questions during the day every day while he's trying to focus on what he's doing, then save your questions. Write them down in a tally book/notepad and ask questions when it's a better time.

Holler at me if you ever need anything.



Originally Posted by ducknbass
Electrician by trade. Good field. I made it through the dot-com bust then 9-11 never a short check.

Cast hot work is rare as a leprechaun riding unicorn.

Don't quit IEC.
Who you going to work for?

If your on a big job it can get monotonous. Same thing over and over and over. I've seen guys 4byears in that had never done anything but underground, or roughing in walls. Try real hard not to end up like that. Service department is better for learning as a green hand I think.

When there is idle time pick up trash, organize your material etc don't get caught with your hands in your pocket it staring at your phone.

Pm me who you go to work for. Chances are I may know someone. Small industry really.



Originally Posted by jphunts6165
#1. As Cast said never trust anyone that something is turned off. Always start from the furthest incoming source of power and work your way to where you are supposed to be. Have know people killed from jack wagons bypassing disconnects or adding jumpers to thing to “make things run until you get there.”
-Wear the equipment you are supposed to PPE./ Use the correct tools. Things can blow up for no rhyme or reason.
-Use your references, ugly book, electric books, maybee a course books and apply it to what you are learning hands on. It will help you learn by reading and seeing at the same time. Also get to know others in the industry. And use them to lean on as well. Your teacher could be a freelancer that could take shortcuts. Personal experience here with that one. That’s the way we have always done it.
-Don’t be scared, have a healthy respect and if you don’t feel comfortable don’t do it. Stop regroup and figure the finer details of the job out.
*Aways approach everything as hot*



I’ve been an electrician for decades, and a Facilities & Development Manager for 31 years, and the advice in these 3 posts is solid. It is a great field to get into, and if you strive to continue learning and push yourself to be the best employee
you can be, there is no telling where you could wind up.

Keep learning. Work hard.

Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Hicksbuilt] #7913556 07/26/20 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt

I am a bit of an anomaly as an electrician apprentice, I have an engineering degree, so I think I could study and pass the test on my own if needed. But unless I start getting a lot of overtime at work, I won't have the hours to even sit for the test until close to the end of IEC. Thanks for all the info!


I see business ownership in your future once you get the licensing. wink

Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: Paluxy] #7913783 07/26/20 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hancock
Originally Posted by Hicksbuilt

I am a bit of an anomaly as an electrician apprentice, I have an engineering degree, so I think I could study and pass the test on my own if needed. But unless I start getting a lot of overtime at work, I won't have the hours to even sit for the test until close to the end of IEC. Thanks for all the info!


I see business ownership in your future once you get the licensing. wink


Hopefully.


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Any Electricians here? [Re: bucksnbass357] #7913784 07/26/20 04:51 PM
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Thanks!


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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