That bullet is a 110gr Hornady Spire Point. A 16" barrel @2738 fps. Is it the ideal hog bullet, no. There are better options for penetration, but we've killed a lot of hogs with it. Depends how you hunt, spot and stalk large groups the optimum is to have a bullet that performs well all around because once they start running you can necessarily hit them all in the neck. Bill has more experience in terminal performance, but I've seen some serious damage from the 110's when I dug them out. I'll be doing some other testing soon with other bullets.

I have shot A BUNCH of the #30321's out of the blackout and they shoot well with good accuracy for a blackout.

The problem with the ham'r is that the bullet is approximately .900" from the cannelure to the bullet tip which would make the OAL way too long for magazine length. I run them at 2.255 out of a blackout and the cannelure is in the perfect spot for the case lip.

Bill,

I noticed you listed 27.2gr of CFEBLK as a maximum recommended for the 125gr TNT.

I'm using a Remington 7 1/2 primer and after a load workup I ended up at 27.5gr with 5 shot groups in the .6 to .7 range at 100 yds. Velocity out of a 16" barrel was 2515 with an SD of 8 but I'm not measuring any case head expansion and primers don't look to be an issue.

Given how well this is shooting, I want to keep running it there, but I didn't know if based on your pressure testing if you knew how hot that actually was?

Thanks!

@Davidk

Cool, thanks for the info. Definitely was not expecting that bullet, lol.

If that holds true, that gives some awesome numbers out to 300 yards especially for varmit sized game.

Your probably up in the 58k PSI range if your using lot #3 which is the hottest lot # we've done testing with, would be a little less if lot #4. We just finished a comprehensive load data PDF that will be up on the web site on Thursday that will replace all previously posted data. We are listing 26.9gr as the max for the 125TNT. We're doing our best to publish SAAMI standard data which is 97% of the 57,500psi max for the cartridge, this calculates to 55,775psi.

There are just so many variables, this from the new data sheet: CAUTION: Due to all of the potential variables such as powder lot, case brand, bore dimension, chamber dimension and atmospheric condition variations approach all MAXIMUM loads slowly and carefully watching for high pressure signs in your firearm.

Running lot #4 so far. Thanks for the info Bill.

I enjoyed your talk with Richard on the empty cases podcast by the way.

Bill,

The SAAMI acceptance brings up an interesting point. Moving forward in this thread can we drop the apostrophe??

The SAAMI position on the ' is that ammo companies can drop it on case headstamps, supposed to continue to be used elsewhere.

The 300 HAM'R section of the web site has been updated and a PDF download is available of our new comprehensive load data document here:

300 HAM'R

Thank you

well i'm not going to quote anybody's name, but...



new data reads...

125gr Speer TNT 2.255" Hodgdon CFEBLK 24.2gr 2225fps 26.9gr 2475fps

130gr Speer HAM'R HOT-CORE 2.175" Hodgdon CFEBLK 25.1gr 2200fps 27.9gr 2450fps

... so, the new data isn't far off from this earlier post for the 130gr. i realize weight isn't everything, but the 125gr tnt really tops out a full grain less than the 130gr hot core? you're killin meeeeee!!!!

Pressure testing at both Western Powder and Sig Ammo showed up some surprising things. In many cases bullet shape, construction and jacket thickness makes a huge difference in pressure, often more than a few grains of bullet weight. In general as an example.........assuming the same bullet weight one with a thicker jacket and more bearing surface will produce more pressure at the same velocity than one with a thinner jacket and less bearing surface. That being said, the TNT seems to be an anomaly, it produces higher pressure that most other 125gr bullets for some reason??? But on the flip side the Speer 130gr HC and 150gr BTSP both produce less pressure at the same velocity than most other 130gr or 150gr bullets. For another example, you can push the Speer 150gr BTSP 75fps faster than a Sierra 150gr FP with the same pressure. The Hornady 110gr SP, Sierra 125gr SBT PH, Speer 130gr HHC, Hornady 150gr SST and the Speer 150gr BTSP all produce higher velocity in relation to pressure than most of the other bullet choices.

If you could just be privy to some of the conversations I've had with various ammo mfg ballistic experts nothing would surprise you when it come to handloading. Like one of them told me, in the end it's all Voodoo !!!

BW, which case has the most capacity, the Sig or Lake City?

you dont mind if i get out my graduated cylinder and double check some of those bareing surface measuremintz

DJones -

You’re a smart guy , you know all you have to do is put the 125 grain TNT bullets in a bag and label them 130 grain HotCor and shake the crap outta that bag and say some magic words like Pizzahhh and Hay-yuh-yeyyey-Hay-yuh-yeyyey

And then take them out of the bag (which says 130 grain HotCor) and load using Mr. Wilson’s data...

The new load data list 29.4gr of CFE BLK as a maximum load with a Lehigh 110 CC.

Are you using a drop tube to get that much in a case? There's no way I can use that kind of load in a progressive press.

I'm wondering how much difference in capacity the starline brass I have that is the latest manufacturing date is compared to the sig brass?

A fire formed LC or Jag and Sig are basically the same

29.4gr is all the CFEBLK you can cram in the case and still get the bullet seated to 2.255" and it's only 50k PSI, but as you noted not progressive press friendly, at the ammo co we use SOCOM for 95-110gr loads for this reason.

There is only .2gr difference in capacity between Sig and Starline, no big deal unless your loading over 28gr of CFEBLK. Surprisingly we haven't noticed much pressure difference between the two case brands with the same load. Both are excellent quality cases.

Hello the group.
Would like to get advice on my load work up. Yes I know they are above the new lower recommended max loads. My goal was to get to 2500 fps with the 130 grain Ham’r Hot core. Does not seem possible with safe loads? Although in the Handloader article on the Ham’r, it list the Speer 130-gr Hot core FN with 18 inch barrel and a charge of 28.0 grains of CFE BLK at 2,619 fps. I believe this must be an error?
Anyway, here is what I have…
18” Bill Wilson Ranch barrel with the Q-Comp.
130 grain Ham’r Hot Core lightly crimped in the cannelure, OAL approximately 2.164
CCI 450 primers, unfired Starline cases. All loads individually weighed on new Dillon determinator V3 scale.
MagnetoSpeed sporter chronograph
Factory HHC Sig case 2478 fps
CFE BLK loads…
28.2 grains - 2459, 2438, 2458 fps
28.3 grains - 2444, 2451 fps
28.4 grains - 2482, 2479 fps

Accurate 1680 loads…
26.4 grains – 2380, 2419, 2429 fps
26.5 grains – 2440, 2423, 2437 fps
26.6 grains – 2438, 2423, 2452 fps
26.7 grains – 2450, 2448, 2454 fps
None of these loads show obvious signs of high pressure. One of the primers on the 26.7 grain loads seems to be slightly flattened. But I am no expert on reading the signs.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hello all. One other question. Bill can probably answer this?
I am presently using almost all WC parts on my Ham'r build, but using an Aero Precision buffer tube, standard weight and spring, which is working Ok.
I purchased the WC 40 coil flat spring to try and it was giving trouble. Seemed a little to strong. Sometimes using factory 130 grain Ham'r Hot Core loads it would not lock back the bolt on an empty mag, or sometimes not pick up a round. I know this is a quality spring, should I cut some coils out to make it work?
Thanks.

Which lot # of CFE BLK?

I knew I would forget something! Using Lot # 4 of CFE BLK.

I think you just have a slow barrel that was probably rifled with a new button. I've never loaded over 28.2gr to get 2500fps with either lot #3 or lot #4. I just broke into lot #5 and it seems slower than #3 and #4 and have had to up my charges.

Keep in mind, velocity = pressure. So you should be able to load to 2490fps within pressure limits using CFEBLK, I would not increase the A1680 load. Where I'm coming from with the 2490fps # is 2510fps is a full charge load over a LabRadar which normally gives 20fps faster #s than conventional chronographs since it's a true "muzzle" velocity reading not 15' downrange. That being said I have NO experience with a MagnetoSpeed.

Yes you can clip coils off the flatwire buffer spring to "tune" your individual rifle. Just put the clipped end on the buffer and polish it so it doesn't dig into your buffer.

(How dare Bill Wilson to jump in while I'm typing a reply. )


I am not going to suggest going above Wilson Combat's loading information. I will say there are several variables when it comes to velocity results. The first I noticed was the instrument used to measure the velocity. I use a LabRadar which normally gives me 20-plus FPS higher readings than the ProChrono I used to use. There also can be a difference in readings from one lot of powder to the next. There was even a difference in velocity when I left powder in my powder measure for a few days instead of putting it back in the jug between loading sessions. To add to the mix, I've been able to test rifles with barrels of different lengths, with several twist rates, and made from blanks of three different companies. Needless to say, given the same powder load, they all had different velocities results.
All of this taught me that it was useless to chase after "stated" velocity readings.
For the past week or so I have gone back and loaded rounds that vary by 0.1 grain and re-shot each rifle. I've put aside trying to reach a set velocity in favored of finding loads that gave me the best accuracy and functioning.

You may also notice that Bill Wilson has liked using some loads for the 150 gr. bullets. I favor 130 grains. He also favors 18" barrels and I mainly shoot 16". You use a MagnetoSpeed sporter chronograph and I use a LabRadar. Everyone has their own preferences on a lot of things. Find a load that "works well" in your rifle and be happy. That deer/hog/bear or whatever isn't going to know if your bullet was going 2500 or 2525 fps.