If you think Bobo looks down on you or anyone else for their hunting style, you have missed the boat.

Unless it's one of THF's social media stars that is recording his hog and deer hunts, to be unnamed but pretty sure we all know whom it is....

Kind of short sighted to lump hunters into three categories based on economic class, and assume all the a-holes are in the lower class.

A bit of an elitist?

What’s short sighted is your failure to completely read what I wrote before forming your opinion and replying.

I did not lump hunters into 3 categories based on economic class

I clearly stated that people in the 3rd class come from all economic backgrounds.

People in the first group have the time and means to globe trot the world hunting....it’s obvious they are not working the window at KFC.

The economic means in the 2nd group was a generalization based on observation, not an absolute.

It was pretty clear what I wrote.

Truth is, you need to be pretty well heeled to be able to afford to hunt anymore. Unless you are fortunate enough to have family land or friends who have land and will let you hunt. Family land takes quite a hit during generational change with family wanting to cash out after the old man or old lady passes on. Lease or buy, baby, and this forum is full of stories about the challenges of leasing.

A lot of truth to this here locally.

In other areas of the country, it’s almost the opposite. Numerous species to hunt and cheap tags make it accessible to most anybody.

Disagree, is access ability more restrictive locally, yes but there is public land within 3.5hrs of hill country, Dallas or central Texas. If that doesn’t tickle your fancy several western states you can hunt also.

Hunting is truly what you make it. Several species in neighboring or close states that are cheap to hunt on public land.. bears, mule deer and cow elk for instance

We pigeon hole ourselves when we set a certain expectation that you think can only be met on private ground. Don’t discount your options.

It was pretty clear that none of the a-holes included in the top two tiers there, nor were average joes. Funny the name of the a-hole group coincides with average joes.

Good to see your true colors. You failed miserably with that disclaimer.

I thought you were cool...

It's partly true for whitetail hunters in Texas. But a lot of guys just don't get a lease, or hunt, every year. I know a couple of groups that save their money and go in together on a bice spot every few years. So wait a couple years, go in together on a lease, and just try to enjoy that for the year. Then for a couple years just play around in Muenster with atv's and stuff until they get it together for another lease.

Dudes are either into doves, ducks, deer, pigs, or just dont hunt. Not a whole lot of Texans into small game seems like.

In other states with more public land and opportunity, and also more low income families that still get out and hunt, the rabbit and squirrel hunters are more common. At least based on my own limited experiences, with North Carolina, Arkansas, and Tennessee.

The public land hunters must be the silent minority on this forum.

My grandfather bought his first 40 acres in 1960 for $30/acre which came to $1,200. The same ground goes for $9,000/acre now, which comes to $360k, never mind the tax bill. Swamp is going for $5k/acre. It costs money to play, and has for some time now

^ shame on those a-holes that can have to pool their resources to get a lease every 2-3 years for not spending their money on the rocky mountain elk foundation, lol

The public land crowd in Texas is small and silent because it is sparse public land in this state. If every deer hunter hit public land that allows for deer, other than the lottery hunts, it would probably result in lottery only draw for all public land hunts in Texas.

We got like less than half an acre per capita in this state, and that includes all the dove fields. People keep their favorite spots on the DL.

Edit- less that 0.1 acre of public land per capita, according to this backcountry chronicles link :

https://www.backcountrychronicles.com/public-hunting-land/

A lot to comment on this thread, a very good one and thank you to the OP for starting it. We must be thinking of the perceptions of the non hunter if we want to keep mass support. And remember, we do have mass support, 80-90 percent of America, depending on where you get your stats, either hunts or is okay with hunting. That is the number to focus on, in my opinion, and the OP's post bring that out.

I have long said that I have never actually met or heard anyone who is against real hunting. All I have met or heard is people against things I am also against, but those are things that happen as the exception or misperception. The two most common examples are people against things that drunk, redneck, teenagers (at least in actions not in age) do. This is not a judgement of them or their behavior, it is just that what they are doing is not hunting is the truest sense. I have been one of them and after this distancing thing if my cousins kids want to drive around our farm country and shoot pigs, I will probably go, but I wouldn't really call it hunting either. The other thing that roots people against hunting stance is the idea that trophy hunting equates to not eating the meat, which happens somewhere between never and almost never. Again, my redneck cousins waste more deer meat by sloppy cleaning practices and just never getting around to doing something with those whole frozen quarters than is wasted by rich guys shooting big stuff and leaving it lay, which is terrible if it actually happened much. You can rest assured that Snow Sheep in Tajikistan or that elephant in Mozambique gets eaten by the native guides and local villagers.

I would hope we would all be offended by idiots and a holes trying to get an audience through hunting. I won't name names, though I would call them out to their face, but if hunting ever got banned, it would be more due to them. Just for the record, I have personally guided hundreds of hunters, been in lodges around thousands of hunters, sent hundreds of hunters around the world on trips as a consultant, sold thousands of guns in retail, and worked with thousands through pastoring and counseling. I hate hate hate to say that and almost delete it, but for what its worth.....

So to directly answer the OP's question, I believe and fear most non hunters see hunters as some version, a worse and inaccurate one, of the third category, and that ain't good, for them or us.

And to get to the quoted post, cause this is gettin' long, I tie these responses together because almost everyone I talk to would hunt, at least some, if they could. Public land quality and quantity must change. We bemoan how little public land we have in Texas, but the main problem I see that can be changed right now is its quality and opportunity on it. We the people actually own some awesome ranches that we have no access to because the manager isn't required to open it up, so if he doesn't want to hassle with it or whatever, he doesn't have to. And the dove lands, I have guided and outfitted thousands of dove hunter days in Texas and Mexico and I have never seen a public leased dove field I'd spend five minutes even scouting, much less hunting. This has to change.

Anyway, I'll cut the rant short. But glad we are all discussing this. Best of luck to all of you guys, in your hunting, in your getting folks hunting, in your public portrayal of your hunting!

It’s still more land then any lease in Texas, including if you leased the entire King Ranch. Still over a million acres of huntable land not including tidal zone. Toss in a deer season thats roughly 100 days long... that’s a lot of opportunity

The projection at lease prices is just that a projection. I don’t want to say it’s laziness because I think most just don’t understand the public resources we have around us.

Bobo-

More land than any lease in Texas? We are talking about cumulative total of public lands. Over half of our cumulative public lands could all fit inside the King Ranch itself. Our largest designated wilderness in this state is about 13,000 acres of land that has actually been logged within the last 150 years. There are many leases bigger than that!

Plus like it has been said, the quality isn't there for most of it. Be a good place to teach a youngster to practice gun safety with a real gun, that's about it.

East Texas has some nice places, thanks to the thick cover that keeps most hunters out. The corps lakes are all nice but deer hunting is not allowed on corps lakes and has not been for years.

Even camping reservations must be made months in advance in iur state parks. Let alone hunting.

I am honestly surprized we havent made all TPWD managed lands a lottery draw. It would probably do alot to improve the dove and cottontail places near the mestroplex. Might see a resurgence in quail too. There is just too much human activity out there. It would be great for the habitat and the animals but aweful for hunters.

But hunting thise dove fields to me is like fishing for sandbass in Rowlett Creek at the peak of the run. It gets that crowded, on every one I have been to. I won't take my kids back out there.

We hunt cottontails on the little 2.5 acres I live on, and squirrels and cottontails on corps lakes. The corps lakes are very nice especially lake bardwell, by comparison to TPWD dove places there is no comparison.

If we lost the corps lakes, as far as I'm concerned, the only decent spots leftover would be deep East Texas.

I should probably clarify- the difference being you actually catch the sandbass. I have had days where you were lucky to meet a guy that shot a dove, on the dove places in or near town.

But anyway based on these observations one might assum there are no such things as meat hunters in Texas. Cost per pound of even the best cuts of beef would be far less than the price you pay to hunt a lease, for the meat you take.

Personally I paid about $50 a pound for the game I took yhis year on public land! But that is not what it is about.

If you factor in the fish though- I did really really well.

Texas fishing in quality and opportunity is excellent. Top tier fishing in this state for sure.

Hunting however is completely different.
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Based on this most non hunters will never understand the reasons why we hunt. It's like canping only better, to me the feeling of connection to the land and worth spending good money, it is priceless. But I have invested a lot of time and energy to find my little places that I enjoy so much, and to be honest have been very blessed and lucky to have stumbled across some of it.

But on topic of the perveption to a non-hunter, if they all knew the truth of cost vs return, they would know meat hunters are almost all full of it, and might label us trophy hunters or people that just like to kill.

Might never understand the preservation of a way of life or pass down of something to hour kids that you enjoyed.

Unless they have the opportunities to enjoy it for themselves

And here I go again with more consecutive posting- public hunting opportunity is sparse but our fishing is so good, yet only $25 a year. You might think that it would cost more if you consider hunting. I forget what all it cost but i was probably close to $200 all in this year just on permits for hunting and fishing. $25 of that for fishing and I almost never get skunked, have caught 20 pound cats and limited out on crappies fishing from the bank.

We probably do bot give enough credit to TPWD for what an excellent job they have done with the fishing.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and you got exactly the message I was trying to convey

You have roughly a million acres of hunting public permitted land in Texas. That’s bigger as a whole then any lease is my point.

When faced with two options not hunt or hunt public land why wouldn’t you not hunt public land in Texas?

There are several thousand acres in NTX that produces 180” deer every year that’s OTC or great odds draw.

I guess I just don’t understand the dis on public land in Texas. Essentially after hunting it my self.

It’s disheartening that people bash resources thus discouraging others, but maybe that’s the real motive

You have roughly a million acres of hunting public permitted land in Texas. That’s bigger as a whole then any lease is my point.

When faced with two options not hunt or hunt public land why wouldn’t you not hunt public land in Texas?

There are several thousand acres in NTX that produces 180” deer every year that’s OTC or great odds draw.

I guess I just don’t understand the dis on public land in Texas. Essentially after hunting it my self.

It’s disheartening that people bash resources thus discouraging others, but maybe that’s the real motive

Agreed, there is quite a bit of public land out there, and some of it for some things are very good. There could and should be more of it and it could and should be better in terms of quantity of game and access to it, it all I'm saying, and that on behalf of those who could be hunting and enjoying it. I mostly haven't, am going to more, by choice not necessity.

For the last many years I have mostly getting my hunting fix through guiding with that great public/private partnership hunting opportunity, that you must like to Bobo, the Texas Youth Hunting Program! Backcountry Hunters and Anglers and other groups are also working this private/public partnership mentored hunt mission. We just want everyone who wants to to be able to enjoy this amazing experience of hunting! To paraphrase/modify that old famous quote, " can't we all just …. go hunting!"

Bobo- I promise you this is not an attempt to bash or discourage. I see your post as an attempt to undermine the point I tried to make which is the honest truth.

Where in North Texas are these 180" deer on OTC hunts? It might happen, but it's not the norm. To even see a legal deer.

If the opportunity was as uou described it, it would be more commonplace.

I am not asking for a 180" buck or even a spike. Just public land and opportunity to go, other than a crowded dove place.

I have found a couple of nice places for myself and my family, no deer hunting allowed but I could have easily shot a linit of blue wing teal if I were so inclined. I'd just as soon enjoy them and know they are there. All I take out of there are crappies, cottontails, and gar and bass. Yeah I eat gar and I keep and eat largemouth bass too.

I have tried to show people what I have found and have even invited forum members to show them my favorite spots.

What are you doing besides making a claim probably based on someone else's good fortune? Surely not trying to help new hunters get started in the right direction.

Just trying to undermine the truth- quality public hunting opportunities in this state is sparse. And that is what discourages hunters.

And it ain't all about deer.


And edit #1- I agree there are still some excellent places and opportunities. But it is not what You (Bobo) make it out to be.

And this is bot meant to be a personal attack toward you either, but address your comments because I just can't stand to leave it open like that afyer you accuse me of trying to discourage hunters. I take every little opportunity I get. And i am just nobody in this hunting world- but I promise you if I could get someone out there I could show them a good time.

Dang, I get busy for a day and this thread takes off. This public land discussion has really skewed a little off topic. I know it started with comments on high income vs low income hunters but that was never ever a point of major importance in the OPs original post. His premise, and a good one, was to discuss how non hunters perceive hunters and what we should do about it. I already made a very very long post offering my opinion so this now is just an attempt to nudge back on topic. Maybe somebody start a new thread on public land hunting in Texas.
Also, Mickeyhft is relatively new to our Forum and what a great contributor he appears to be. Excellent posts sir!!!!! I don’t put equal weight on everyones posts but ill be on the lookout for yours.

You can’t dictate tone on a written forum, but I know you aren’t attacking nor I do I want you think me the same.

Is our amount of public land ideal NO, we were deeded out well before statehood so we differ greatly in relation to our western counterparts, but it’s still very huntable, with tons of options. Dove hunting may sux but how many states have 70% draw success on Nilgi etc. or 100’s of miles of cast and blast duck hunting coast line? No state has it all.

Any public land Hunting is harder in any state then private for the most part but doesn’t mean there isn’t the same opportunity for quality. I’ve hunted public land in TX, KS, Okla, Ark, NM, CO, AZ, ID, Wy, MD and I’m probably missing some. Texas has some great quality if you put in the effort

I have personally held several giants public land texas deer. Do your homework, put in the effort and the reward is there.

It’s easy...

Be cognizant of social media’s reach, don’t be scared to learn the biological and ecology aspect of hunting(we hunt to keep numbers in check means to a non-hunter that we just shouldn’t shoot predators, aka not a very good defense agruement), be consumptive in you take, be knowledge about hunting dollars in reference to conservation, be knowledge about sustainability model of hunting.. etc. The general non hunting public aren’t against hunting, but they are not overly educated in it either.

If you don’t care to be engaging in defense of hunting that’s fine, just remember social media reach including if you think a post will Just be seen by friends.....


And most of all don’t be a donkey and publicly bash a style of hunting and then have a fund raiser doing the exact same thing you just bashed people about!!!