Yes, but not everyone was in the military, and even if they were, they may not have ever been in battlefield conditions.

I ain't trying to get anyone to agree with me on this, I am just relating what I have actually experienced in actual hunting conditions. I have been around folks that I know, could put 3 shots from any gun they had under a dime at 100 yards off the bench.

What I am getting at, is last time I looked there aren't any benches, and you don't always have time to find a place to get a rest from. It is like the times that I have seen people that could break 98 targets out of a hundred shooting skeet, and yet feel they had done good getting one bird for every 2 or 3 shots when hunting dove.

I knew it would get some questions! I shot all three in the shoulder. I have been hunting deer for about 18 years, killing 2-3 each year. I never lost a deer from a shoulder shot until i got that gun. I know they didnt open up, b/c I shot one at about 230 yds a few years ago, knocked him down, when i got to him he jumped up, and i shot him on the run in the front shoulder at about 40 yds, it knocked him down but i still had to cut his throat. Exit and entrance wound was the same size on the second shot. I know a lot of folks that have problems on whitetails with this bullet, and many that love it. I just know I will never use them again. BTW, i had used that round in my 308 with no problems, it worked well, but after losing three good bucks, my 270 will stick with hornady.

And I know a 22-250 will kill a deer, but its odd i have better stopping ability with my 25-06 than i did with that 7mm wsm

I've seen it to people that were great bench shooters and could hit a barn without a bench and sand bags. I think alot a folks may only practice from a bench and never in field conditions. I shoot my rifles from the bench while I'm sighting it in or working up reloads but after that I'm shooting from hunting position.

And wild boar, how can you say those bullets are made for deep penetration. They are CXP2. On the box it says, rapid controlled expansion, ideal for light thin skinned game. It performs nothing like a deep penetrating bullet such as a barnes tsx or accubond.

I havent shot any of the cxp2 and dont know anything about them, because I hate winchester ammo(except AA shotgun shells). But the old silver tips were made for deep penetration. There cant be very much difference inbetween 300 wsm and 7mm wsm and every thing I've shot with the 300wsm so far has drop in its tracks.

and thats why i think the 300 wsm is here to stay, and the 7 and others are not.

I don't know how to do all the cutting and pasting, but nearly all I ever take is shoulder shots, and I ain't lost but one animal, a whitetail, and I was shooting a 22 Hornet at the time.

Granted I have had animals run up to a hundred yards or so. I seem to always get part of the lungs, and I use nothing but Barnes X and Triple-Shoks, and the 300 Weatherby and 300 Win.Mag. are about the smallest calibers I use.

Everyone has had different experiences on this issue, but I feel that there are other factors at work here on the man losing three deer shot that way.

I will add this however, the outfitter I hunt with in Colorado, and he has been guiding for over 30 years, has told me several times, that he has seen more elk shot and lost with a 7mm Rem.Mag. than any other round.

This is all just my opinion, but I will take shoulder shots on anything any day, over just about any other shot.

I appreciate the last post, I was beginning to think I was doing something wrong because I also take shoulder shots over anyother.

It all depends on ...where I am hunting and if I need to anchor the critter RIGHT THERE, distance involved and time to set up the shot, and of course the critter it self.

When I hunt Lottery hunts, where the shots typically are at or under a 100 yards hunting out of fixed blinds..I always take shoulder shots unless I can take a comfortable and high success rate head shot because I cannot let the critter leave my tiny hunt area. If I am snap shooting on public land especailly where the brush is heavy I will take shoulder shots...by then I shoot heavy for caliber bullets -like HwyMan's 300 Weatherby is a heavy for under 200 yards on White Tail caliber IMO. I also like neck shots and have made lots of them if the opportunity presents it self - base of the neck or just under the head if the critter is settled and not spooked. If I am taking shoulder shots I will try and line up the shot so it it will also take out the heart or other shoulder. You break down the critters wheels and it ain't goin no where. I find that lung shots taken too far back are my worst hits for having to track down a critter. I really like a raking shot just behind the last rib and under the back strap from behind, where I can get all of the internal organs involved and the exit hole inside the off shoulder saves me the most meat other than a behind the eye/in front of the ear DRT Hammer of Thor.
Ron

I agree i shoot a doe every chance i get in the neck or head, but that doesnt always present istelf. On bucks i shoot for the shoulder or the lungs, it has always worked. My point on the 7 mm wsm was that at the time i had the gun, the best round for it was the ballistic silvertip. I had used it before in my 308 and it worked great. However when i used it in my 7mm wsm, of the 4 bucks i had shot at 3 were lost and the other took two rounds and a slit throat to kill it ( one in the lungs and one in the front shoulder- base of the neck area). All were good shots that had worked for me in the past and continue to work till this day. The only thing that changed was the caliber that i used and the bullet, except for my 308. That is why i think its a poor round. Many other people have had different experiences and thats fine, i am just putting my .02 cents into the discussion. We can argue all day long about shot placement but that has nothing to do with my point. bullet performance and the short mags are the issue.

If the same type of bullets expanded in your 308 maybe it had something to do with the 7mm wsm bullet traveling faster or maybe a box of defective ammo. A few years ago I had a problem with some v-max bullets on some coyotes. In the past anything that was past 100yds my bullet wouldn't exist. All of a sudden I was having my bullets exiting out at 200 yds with very little damage and it was taking several shots to bring them down for good. And I'm not talking about just a couple of times it was 15 or 20 times. I was about to pull my hair out. I went and bought a new box of bullets and reloaded some more and these worked great. I sent the open box back to hornady with about 50 bullets in it and they sent me a new box they didn't tell me what was wrong but I think the jacket was to thick. If I hadn't shot that gun and bullets for so long I proble would have sold them and never owned one again.

Yeah that could have very well been the case, unfortunately the last deer I shot and missed was a mature 130 class 9 pt that i rattled in. (good deer for san saba county) That was the last straw. I went to winchester gallery in fort worth, they traded me straight up for a weatherby 25-06, and i love that gun even though brownings are my choice rifle.

My 7mm WSM is staying w/ me, it droped that hog this weekend like 3rd period french

I think the honeymoon is over. sales are down and back to the traditional cartridges. 300WSM will stick, maybe 223, but most of the others will become harder to find and higher. My opinion is that price is the culprit, performance is not an issue. They work great, but are the worth the difference is the issue.

We own several guns, but the ones we shoot all the time are 308's and 223's and 9mm's. Cost of ammo makes a huge difference.