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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: fishdfly]
#7760864
03/02/20 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,261
Texas Dan
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From a landowner's perspective, I have the right to sell my land, this comes over your lease for hunting.
His responsibility, ends with the sale of the land which he no longer owns the day the sale is complete.
He could have been less than fair and not told you about the sale and let you lose what is yours on his property when it transfers.
Your only option is maybe the new owner will let you stay. Any legal options will take longer to complete than May 17, 2020.
Getting cranky with the owner will only distance him from you. I agree. Any chance you may have at getting a lease with the new landowner depends on how you handle this. Situations like this also point to the importance of having good relationships with other landowners in the area. The more landowners who will vouch for you the better.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 03/02/20 02:04 PM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760869
03/02/20 02:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,789
Mr. T.
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To sum this up....If you give the new buyer written notice of an existing lease, before he buys the land, he has to honor it....just calling him will not do....in writing. Below is law on cattle leases in Texas There are, surprisingly, few Texas cases that have addressed this issue. Nevertheless, the law appears to be fairly settled on this point. As with most legal questions, the answer depends on the facts. First, if the original lease agreement between the landlord and tenant states that the landlord shall have the right to terminate the lease if the property is sold, that is an enforceable contractual term and the lease may be terminated by the landowner. See, e.g. Frankfurt Fin. Co. v. Treadway, 159 S.W.2d 514 (Tex. Ct. App. 1942) (“Our attention is directed to the well-settled rule that parties to a lease may lawfully stipulate for a termination of the leasehold upon sale by the owner; and it has further been held that such a provisio becomes a covenant running with the land, thus a right inuring to the purchaser.”) If, however, the lease is silent as to termination upon sale to a new purchaser, the common law applies. The basic rule in this situation is that so long as the new purchaser is on notice that a lease exists, the sale of property does not terminate the lease agreement. Instead, the new purchaser takes the property subject to the terms of the lease agreement.
Cabin rental in Pagosa Springs, Co. Sleeps 10, If interested please PM me.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760871
03/02/20 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,797
dogcatcher
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Did the OP have a written lease?
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760883
03/02/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,484
DQ Kid
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I agree, "if the new landowner" was made aware of a contractual lease prior to purchasing, he/she probably has to honor it or be in breach. Only issue is "cost of enforcement" and whether 2 months of turkey hunting is worth the cost...
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: flintknapper]
#7760885
03/02/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
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If there is a written lease contract you may have something to go by. If its all verbal I would cut losses and get my stuff.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760904
03/02/20 02:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,108
Espy
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The person selling should give you a partial refund. if he refuses to give you a refund you could take him to small claims court. If you have a written lease you will win. We had some property leased planted in oats. The property sold. The new owners didn't want to wait for us to harvest the oats asked us what it would take to buy us out. Made a deal that worked out for both parties.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760912
03/02/20 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,220
Hudbone
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Small claims court? Will that really provide any worthwhile benefit or do you guys feel it is justified to got the extra mile and effort to stick it up where the sun don't shine? I don't get it.
Geez people . . . anyone ever hear of quit digging when you find yourself in a hole?
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760918
03/02/20 02:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 662
rob valle
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What is more important and worth more in the long run? Your blind, feeders, camper, BBQ pit, etc? Or a stupid turkey? This one is a no brainer...…..I would get my stuff out ASAP. Before you find a new lock on the gate.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760943
03/02/20 03:14 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24,362
dkershen
Rev Dave
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RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this.
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760958
03/02/20 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,220
Hudbone
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the bet here, is the OP is more concerned about the rather short time frame to remove equipment than the loss of the turkey hunting privileges.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: Hudbone]
#7760975
03/02/20 03:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,108
Espy
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the bet here, is the OP is more concerned about the rather short time frame to remove equipment than the loss of the turkey hunting privileges. In another post the OP is talking about suing the landowner. That’s why I suggested small claims court. I would be hauling my stuff out ASAP and moving on.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760983
03/02/20 03:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
I’d pick up my stuff and send him a certified letter requesting the probated difference
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7760986
03/02/20 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,091
Always ready 2 hunt
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I would have moved my stuff this past weekend. BTDT. Sadly it happens and the new lease hunt process begins
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761056
03/02/20 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,339
onlysmith&wesson
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Deer Leases are not unlike any other negotiation. Regardless, the power lies with who holds the winning hand. If you want to continue to lease, the new owner has the high cards. If you don't, you do. As we know, the high hand doesn't always win.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: fishdfly]
#7761066
03/02/20 05:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,568
garyrapp55
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From a landowner's perspective, I have the right to sell my land, this comes over your lease for hunting.
His responsibility, ends with the sale of the land which he no longer owns the day the sale is complete fishdfly, correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm understanding you to say is that if you sign a contract to lease someone hunting rights to your land you reserve the right to burn the contract and sell the place, not living up to your end of the agreement?
Last edited by garyrapp55; 03/02/20 05:03 PM.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761079
03/02/20 05:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,951
don k
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All I can say is that you must really like turkey hunting. Go get you stuff and move on. Small claims, lease agreement unless it was stamped by a notary or anything else is going to cost you more besides the headaches than you will ever get back.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: Mr. T.]
#7761112
03/02/20 05:52 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,091
CharlieCTx
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First, if the original lease agreement between the landlord and tenant states that the landlord shall have the right to terminate the lease if the property is sold, that is an enforceable contractual term and the lease may be terminated by the landowner.
If, however, the lease is silent as to termination upon sale to a new purchaser, the common law applies. The basic rule in this situation is that so long as the new purchaser is on notice that a lease exists, the sale of property does not terminate the lease agreement. Instead, the new purchaser takes the property subject to the terms of the lease agreement.
I think Mr. T provided the net facts, it's all in whether you want to fight it. If your stuff is worth getting, I'd get my stuff and move on regardless of if you have a written lease or not. Charlie
Kel-Tec RFB + Griffin Sportsman Ultra Light 300 + Pulsar Apex XQ-50 M&P-10 + AAC Cyclone Remy 700 + Leupold VX3 3.5x10x50 CDS
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761124
03/02/20 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,220
Hudbone
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" correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm understanding you to say is that if you sign a contract to lease someone hunting rights to your land you reserve the right to burn the contract and sell the place, not living up to your end of the agreement? "
To begin with, you are assuming there is a written lease. If there is one, you don't even know how this particular lease reads. It may well address this situation. Even if so, what are you going to do about the selling landowner not owning up to it? it's like going out with a nun and hoping you are going to get some.
Nobody is condoning the selling landowner here. Consider that which actually may be effective and worthwhile and not a cut off your nose to spite your face endeavor.
Remember, onward & ever forward.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761179
03/02/20 06:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,225
Rustler
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It depends on the wording in the written lease contract. The OP didn't state he has one, and hasn't answered the several questions of if he has a written lease contract.
If so what takes place upon change in ownership or LO death will be in any decent lease contract, if the lessee doesn't have a written contract, 30 days to vacate /remove belongings is standard / common courtesy for recreational type leases upon change of owner or death. 30 day period used to remove lessee's property / belongings, not to continue to utilize the property for 30 days recreationally.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: garyrapp55]
#7761204
03/02/20 07:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,539
fishdfly
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From a landowner's perspective, I have the right to sell my land, this comes over your lease for hunting.
His responsibility, ends with the sale of the land which he no longer owns the day the sale is complete fishdfly, correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm understanding you to say is that if you sign a contract to lease someone hunting rights to your land you reserve the right to burn the contract and sell the place, not living up to your end of the agreement? To answer your question, yes. If I had leased my land for hunting and someone came along and offered me substantially more for my land than what it is worth, the last thing I would be worried about is someone hunting and getting their feelings hurt.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: Rustler]
#7761235
03/02/20 07:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
kk66
Bird Dog
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Posts: 334 |
It depends on the wording in the written lease contract. The OP didn't state he has one, and hasn't answered the several questions of if he has a written lease contract.
If so what takes place upon change in ownership or LO death will be in any decent lease contract, if the lessee doesn't have a written contract, 30 days to vacate /remove belongings is standard / common courtesy for recreational type leases upon change of owner or death. 30 day period used to remove lessee's property / belongings, not to continue to utilize the property for 30 days recreationally.
I agree 100%. If the lease is in writing and doesn't state that it's cancelled if the place it's sold then the buyer buys it subject to the lease IF the lease contract is filed in the deed records, but any half way decent lease is going to address these things. I've never saw anyone file a hunting lease contract in the property records although it's what should technically be done. It sucks to lose a lease, but there's a whole lot the OP left out (whether he had a written lease, what it said about the situation, etc.) and even if he had an airtight lease, trying to sue over 2 months worth of the lease is just throwing good money after bad.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: kk66]
#7761451
03/03/20 12:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,494
freerange
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I may be a bad one to ask cause it would take a whole lot to get me to sue anyone for anything. In this situation I would go so far as to ask for a little reimbursement and more time if needed but I wouldn't expect either and certainly would not take the time, effort, money to sue regardless of who I thought would win. Im not saying whats legally right or morally right but in either case I would get my stuff and be as nice as I could be and just get out. Now if you were losing 2 months of deer season the scenario would be different.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761453
03/03/20 12:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,089
jakebunch
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: dkershen]
#7761646
03/03/20 06:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this. This is the best advice. Generally, property leases transfer to the new owners if the lease is active. This is typically found during due diligence. Not really any different than any other tenant lease.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761659
03/03/20 11:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,595
decook
Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,595 |
As of this morning, you have 9 more days to take legal action, or get your stuff. If it were me and my stuff which has any value (to me), I know where I'd be spending my time. You aint the first to lose a lease with time remaining.
Press for an AMERICAN.
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