And he’s right too. The damn book clearly says it.

How can that be your opinion when it says the 13” rule doesn’t apply to a deer with an unbranched antler? You don’t check the 13” or greater box on the harvest log because the LAW tells you it doesn’t qualify because it has an unbranched antler.... regardless if it’s 34” wide.

"Antler restrictions apply in certain counties. In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:

at least one unbranched antler; OR
an inside spread of 13 inches or greater(does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers"

I think that this one is pretty clear that the 13" inside spread doesn't count as a buck with a 13" inside spread if it has an unbranched antler.

Stick a tag on it and see what happens.

IMO, you have to consider why the "spike rule" was included as part of the antler restrictions to understand it's importance. It was created so that hunters could remove genetically inferior deer, which itself is a matter of debate. The "spirit" of the spike rule is to allow hunters to take ANY buck that has an unbranched antler, no matter the size of the rack. It could have 10 points on one side and still be legal if it has an unbranched antler on the other. Common sense tells me this makes it the wildcard that trumps everything else, including a spread that's 13 inches and beyond. I also feel it's common sense that when you play a wildcard, it doesn't impact remaining cards in the deck and the hunter can still take another, wide-racked buck that has two branched antlers. And given it's a two buck county, they could opt for another spike without regard to the width of the rack.

That’s basically what I said except I didn’t reference playing cards.

Some are caught up on the harvest log... the law tells you how to make your selection in the harvest log.

^^^^

That is precisely the way I read it. I think I understand what they MEANT to convey....but the unfortunate wording (lack of specifics) leaves us with conflicting information.

Enough so...that a Warden (if they wanted) could cite you if you took two deer 13" or greater (whether branched antler or not).

I would hope Wardens interpret the 'meaning' of the restrictions to be ONE buck with branched antlers 13" or greater and ONE buck with at least one unbranched antler (no minimum or maximum width restriction). But that's NOT what is written.

Do we want to rely on the Warden's discretion....or ask for clarification before the next book is published?

How is that not what is written, when it is written and in parenthesis?

No one has a spike / unbranched tag on their hunting license.
No one has a box on the back of their license to check that differentiates between branched & unbranched.

The "harvest log" actually, the white tailed deer log on the back of your license is required to filled out for all white tailed deer taken in all counties in Tx.

The instructions for the white tailed deer log on the back of your license are crystal clear.
- Check this box ( [*] ) above in addition to the buck box, if the buck has a 13" or greater inside antler spread, and was harvested in one of the antler restriction counties.
See Outdoor annual for county regulations.

No mention of branched or unbranched, on purpose, to make it abundantly clear the AR regulation; only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater actually means what the regulations states - only one buck over 13" per AR county.


All AR counties have the same tagging & width requirements and branched / unbranched rules.

Gregg county ---> TPWD Gregg county

Antler Restrictions; The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. <--- there ya go.
A legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with: at least one unbranched antler; OR an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler). A hunter may also take ONE buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater in a different county with antler restrictions, and not to exceed that county's bag limit.
That is your counties AR regulations, taken directly from the above link.

The 13" rule is a minimum width requirement in all AR counties for a buck with both antlers branched to be considered legal.
Everyone that has hunted in an AR county for more than one day should know a buck with both antlers branched must be at least 13" wide to be legal.

There is no minimum width requirement for a buck with at least one unbranched antler, meaning the unbranched antler buck can be any width, it does not have to be 13" or greater, it can be narrower.
" OR an inside spread of 13 inches or greater ( does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler) "
The statement in parenthisies releases / removes an unbranched antlered buck from the 13" minimum width antler restrictions requirement.
And that is why it is stated this way and what is meant, the 13" rule doesn't apply to an unbranched buck, it does not have to be a minimum of 13".

Those checking with their GW are also correct, as GW's can & frequently do interpret rules & regulations that seem confusing or poorly worded, they can give leeway at their discretion, but, their answer only goes for their county and your individual / specific scenario.

Y'all do whatever you want, no skin off my nose or money out of my wallet.

Lettuce know what happens when the GW shows up and;
You have a dead buck over 13" in your possession and you didn't mark/check the over 13" box on your license log.
Or, when a GW notices you have the over 13" box checked on 2 bucks from the same county and your excuse is "one of them was unbranched".
Or when you have the 13" box checked for a buck previously taken and now a dead buck over 13" in your possession from the same county and your excuse is " the other one was unbranched."

Are you a game warden?

I believe this to be the correct answer. Well explained.

Online rule #1, do not make statements on line that you intend to do something illegal because your reading comprehension is lacking and don't understand the written word.

In this case, re read the part of my post I quoted. If you still don't understand,, IF your GW gives you the go ahead, you have your answer, in your county.

Just be sure not to phrase or frame the question in a deceptive manner. Because that can certainly get you an incorrect answer.

Can I legally kill 2 bucks with an inside spread greater than 13" in an AR county.

When you measure the unbranched buck & see for a fact it is 13" or over, do you check the 13" box or falsify the license log by not checking the over 13" box.
Do you lie or are you honest.

That came from the man himself. Take it how you want.

You didn't ask him to reconcile that with this: " Antler Restrictions; The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater"

How much clearer do I have to make it?

He answered your question (clear enough to me) predicated on the deer being a 'spike' and completely ignored the other aspect of your question (13" or greater width).

Ultimately IF the Warden you will have to deal with says OK (though technically he is wrong) then you should have no worries, but he did NOT fully answer your question.

Text him the link to this thread and see if he will weigh in after reading it.

There is no mention or provisions anywhere in AR rules & regulations that use the term spike.

Branched / unbranched are the only designations used.

Unbranched antler--An antler having no more than one antler point.
Unbranched antlered deer--A buck deer having at least one unbranched antler.

All AR counties have the same " but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater " rule.
All hunting licenses have the same white tailed deer log on the back.
Is the buck over 13"? if yes, check this box.
You either answer honestly or you don't.

And, like I said previously if your GW gave you that answer,,, go for it.

No skin off my nose, no money out of my pocket.

Since we already know the harvest record doesn't account for someone taking a deer with an unbranched antler AND a 13-inch or greater spread, it's safe to assume the above statement failed to recognize these characteristics as well.

IMO, it should read something like "The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have two branched antlers and an inside spread of 13 inches or greater

You just said earlier that game wardens can interpret the law as they see fit, right? I asked him pretty straight forward. Can I kill a deer with an unbranched left side and 5 points on the right that is greater than 13” and still be able to kill another buck greater than 13”.

I’m just trying to find out the right answer man. That’s all. I don’t know you, I don’t know if you’re a game warden or what. I abide by the law and respect law enforcement a great deal. Hell, a few years ago I came across a warden that had guys at gun point in a creek and stopped and helped him. If there is a misconception of the law, then why isn’t it enforced equally?

No Sir, I said that Warden's have 'discretion' (meaning they may choose to some extent how they ENFORCE the law), they don't get to 'interpret' it...that is what the courts are for.

I agree the way you posed the question should have been clear enough. I certainly understood it. The Warden simply failed to answer it completely...focusing instead ONLY on the unbranched antler aspect of it.

I don't mean to labor the point...but the handbook and regulations (as written) could present a stumbling block for the hunting public (with respect to A/R).

I know...and I hope you don't think I am questioning your motives or integrity in any way.

As concerns the 'law' many times there are nuances that LEO (Police, Wardens, Troopers) simply don't understand or are unaware of. That is the whole point of this discussion (a need for clarity) so that the law is plain for all to understand. Else....you'll have it being enforced some places and not in others.

I imagine most Wardens are going to go with the notion that ONE of your legal bucks simply needs to be a 'Spike' (unbranched on at least one side) and could give a rat's patootie the width of the antlers.

A call to the GW in the area you intend to hunt...is probably a good thing. Get his/her perspective about it. After all...that's who you'll be dealing with. Regardless the letter of law...you won't have any trouble if you are never written up.

Personally, I'm going to stick with taking a branched antlered buck (over 13") and IF I decide to take a spike it will be under 13" (which most are anyway), just to be safe.

Thank you for your input and participation. We are all here to learn and exchange thoughts.

Flint.

The law is based off of what the definition of a unbranched antlered buck deer and a 13" buck deer is. The definition and the harvest log go hand in hand.You are allowed 2 buck deer in an antler restricted county. As has been stated numerous times, one may have an inside spread of 13" and the other must have at least on unbranched antler. If you look at the definitions of a unbranched antlered deer the inside spread is not relevant. It must only have at least one unbrached antler. So by legal definition it is not a deer that counts towards your bag limit of a 13" buck. The harvest log is only documenting which of the the two allowed bucks you have killed. It does not have separate definitions. This is actually a clearly defined law. Ther is nothing for a warden to interpret.

This is the way I read it and referenced in Red in the thread (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

It would confound the world if someone took a 14" wide spike