First, let me say that any accuracy problem that spurs “djones” to post new hog videos is a problem well worth having.
Bill, I really appreciate the feedback and the load data, and want to emphasize that my odd experience in no way diminishes my enthusiasm for this cartridge. I am also glad to know about the Sig brass with larger case capacity, and the amount of CFE BLK needed to move a 150gr bullet to 2300 fps (which might be difficult with the Starline brass).
Here is a little more information that may be relevant: I noticed that the 150gr Gold Dots were a tighter squeeze going into the case than all the others. My calipers corroborated my suspicion across three boxes of those bullets – many were .3090 inches diameter and none were less than .3085 inches. In contrast, all the Pro-Hunter 125gr that I measured were .3080, as were the 130gr Hot-Cors. The 130gr Speer Varmint (hollow points) and the 125gr TNT bullets in my inventory trended toward .3075 inch diameter. I cross checked my measurements using two sets of calipers.
After firing the 150gr Gold Dots for the first time using new WC brass, I noticed that some cases had considerable stretching at the case mouth – almost a scalloped effect. I have never seen this before. I am now wondering if the bullet diameter of .3090 could be the problem. I have no idea if this is significant, but if you think it might be, I will follow-up with Speer.
Did you chamfer the case mouths prior to seating the bullets so you don't get any jacket shaving?
I just measured some of mine and they also measure .3085" - .309" which actually surprises me since it's one of the lowest pressure 150gr bullets we've pressure tested.
I’ve assembled two 18 inch 300 HAM’R rigs (great things need redundancy) that each provide MOA or better accuracy using handloaded Sierra Pro-Hunter 125gr (@2560 fps) and Speer 130gr Hot-Cor (@2520 fps). I recently ventured into the heavier bullet weights, expecting similar stellar accuracy, focusing on the Speer 150gr Blackout Gold Dots loaded to 2240-2270 fps (24.8 gr CFE BLK weighed, 2.255 OAL, new WC brass, CCI 450, no crimp). Reality defied my expectations – all 5-shot groups with this load, using both rifles, measured (ahem) four-plus inches at 100 yds. Reverting to the 125gr Sierra PH’s and 130gr Hot-Cor’s got me back into sub-one inch 5-shot group sizes – so, at least in my mind, the rifles appear to be exonerated.
Clearly, there is something that I am missing with regard to the Speer 308150BLKGDB projectile in a 300 HAM’R cartridge. Do I need to make it go faster or slower? If there is an answer, I figure I’ll find it here. I bought a bunch of these bullets (with visions of chasing bigger animals), and do not really want to relegate them to a 300 BLK or .308 Winchester when I’ve got the HAM’R.
I'm somewhat at a loss here, I've shot a lot of these bullets and they shoot +/- 1" from my guns at 2300fps from a 18". I've never tried ANY load with ANY bullet that has shot over 2.5" since I started this project.
My load details are:
150gr Speer BLK GD, 2.255" OAL 25.6gr CFEBLK lot #3 Sig mfg case (largest powder capacity) CCI 450
Obviously the variables are case capacity and charge weight
Hello all. New to the list. Got whacked by the Ham'r the first article I read. Have a small place in Fannin county on the new Bois D’ Arc lake that is being built. With all the construction the hog activity has greatly increased! I am gathering together Wilson parts for the build, chose the Bill Wilson Ranch, 18" barrel, and the matched billet upper and lower. Can’t wait!
Can Bill talk about the Sig mfg case (largest powder capacity)??? Is this another choice in brass? Have always been a fan of Nosler bullets. Is it worth grinding off the tips of the 125 Nosler Ballistic tips? Thanks.
I’ve assembled two 18 inch 300 HAM’R rigs (great things need redundancy) that each provide MOA or better accuracy using handloaded Sierra Pro-Hunter 125gr (@2560 fps) and Speer 130gr Hot-Cor (@2520 fps). I recently ventured into the heavier bullet weights, expecting similar stellar accuracy, focusing on the Speer 150gr Blackout Gold Dots loaded to 2240-2270 fps (24.8 gr CFE BLK weighed, 2.255 OAL, new WC brass, CCI 450, no crimp). Reality defied my expectations – all 5-shot groups with this load, using both rifles, measured (ahem) four-plus inches at 100 yds. Reverting to the 125gr Sierra PH’s and 130gr Hot-Cor’s got me back into sub-one inch 5-shot group sizes – so, at least in my mind, the rifles appear to be exonerated.
Clearly, there is something that I am missing with regard to the Speer 308150BLKGDB projectile in a 300 HAM’R cartridge. Do I need to make it go faster or slower? If there is an answer, I figure I’ll find it here. I bought a bunch of these bullets (with visions of chasing bigger animals), and do not really want to relegate them to a 300 BLK or .308 Winchester when I’ve got the HAM’R.
I'm somewhat at a loss here, I've shot a lot of these bullets and they shoot +/- 1" from my guns at 2300fps from a 18". I've never tried ANY load with ANY bullet that has shot over 2.5" since I started this project.
My load details are:
150gr Speer BLK GD, 2.255" OAL 25.6gr CFEBLK lot #3 Sig mfg case (largest powder capacity) CCI 450
Obviously the variables are case capacity and charge weight
Hello all. New to the list. Got whacked by the Ham'r the first article I read. Have a small place in Fannin county on the new Bois D’ Arc lake that is being built. With all the construction the hog activity has greatly increased! I am gathering together Wilson parts for the build, chose the Bill Wilson Ranch, 18" barrel, and the matched billet upper and lower. Can’t wait!
Can Bill talk about the Sig mfg case (largest powder capacity)??? Is this another choice in brass? Have always been a fan of Nosler bullets. Is it worth grinding off the tips of the 125 Nosler Ballistic tips? Thanks.
It's my understanding that Sig headstamp cases will be available in Dec so you will be able to buy Sig, Starline or WC headstamp cases
With so many good bullet choices available I wouldn't waste my time with Nosler AB or BT bullets
This is a follow-up to my earlier posts regarding degraded accuracy using the 150gr Speer BLK Gold Dots. I went to the range this morning and shot three loads at lesser strength than before, hoping to find a good velocity node. All used CFE BLK (Lot 3), WC brass, and CCI 450 primers. Groups were scanned and measured using OnTarget software.
24.0 gr = 2206 fps and 2.51 inch (5 shot) group 24.4 gr = 2213 fps and 3.04 inch (5 shot) group 24.6 gr = 2227 fps and 3.26 inch (5 shot) group 24.8 and 25.0 gr loads from my earlier range trips were 2240-2280 fps, and the groups so repugnant that I only guessed at their 4 inch size, rather than take detailed measurements.
In contrast, here are today’s five shot groups with Sierra Pro-Hunter 125gr loaded with 27.8 gr CFE BLK (same gun, same mediocre shooter, same day): 2570 fps and 0.88 inch (5 shot) group 2529 fps and 0.74 inch (5 shot) group 2578 fps and 0.58 inch (5 shot) group
The Pro-Hunters turn my HAM’R into a precision instrument, whereas the Gold Dots are in need of a full choke – regardless of velocity. Since Bill’s Gold Dots measured the same .3090 diameter as mine, I have abandoned the theory that my projectiles may have been out-of-spec. My case mouths were chamfered and no bullet shaving observed when they were seated. I have exercised the velocity spectrum from 2200 fps to 2280 fps, and am leery of attempting 2300 because of obvious case mouth stretching as I went higher. I can only conclude that what separates my BLK Gold Dot loads from the accurate Wilson Combat ones may be the brass case. I will try the Sig headstamp cases when they make their appearance later this year, and report back.
This is a follow-up to my earlier posts regarding degraded accuracy using the 150gr Speer BLK Gold Dots. I went to the range this morning and shot three loads at lesser strength than before, hoping to find a good velocity node. All used CFE BLK (Lot 3), WC brass, and CCI 450 primers. Groups were scanned and measured using OnTarget software.
24.0 gr = 2206 fps and 2.51 inch (5 shot) group 24.4 gr = 2213 fps and 3.04 inch (5 shot) group 24.6 gr = 2227 fps and 3.26 inch (5 shot) group 24.8 and 25.0 gr loads from my earlier range trips were 2240-2280 fps, and the groups so repugnant that I only guessed at their 4 inch size, rather than take detailed measurements.
In contrast, here are today’s five shot groups with Sierra Pro-Hunter 125gr loaded with 27.8 gr CFE BLK (same gun, same mediocre shooter, same day): 2570 fps and 0.88 inch (5 shot) group 2529 fps and 0.74 inch (5 shot) group 2578 fps and 0.58 inch (5 shot) group
The Pro-Hunters turn my HAM’R into a precision instrument, whereas the Gold Dots are in need of a full choke – regardless of velocity. Since Bill’s Gold Dots measured the same .3090 diameter as mine, I have abandoned the theory that my projectiles may have been out-of-spec. My case mouths were chamfered and no bullet shaving observed when they were seated. I have exercised the velocity spectrum from 2200 fps to 2280 fps, and am leery of attempting 2300 because of obvious case mouth stretching as I went higher. I can only conclude that what separates my BLK Gold Dot loads from the accurate Wilson Combat ones may be the brass case. I will try the Sig headstamp cases when they make their appearance later this year, and report back.
I'm very curious to find out what's going on here. Send me your UPS address via PM and I'll send you some 150GD loads for you to try for accuracy
i am waaaay down on the list of people who know what they're doing at the loading bench, but... just out of curiosity, does it look like the longer 150gr bullets keyhole any in your targets? i think one of the 'secret' ingredients to the accuracy/velocity, besides match barrels, is the 1:15 twist. that could be reaching the edge of sanity for your gold dots.
pig hunting flooded out at the moment. maybe more vids this weekend.
ps - davidk ground off the tips of a box of 125gr SSTs. shot a yote with them. took so long to kill it we thought she was going to have pups!
Sig Ammunition is AR is just finishing up our first production run of 300 HAM'R cases and they turned out really nice. We'll receive our first shipment late next week.
Also Hodgdon posted 300 HAM'R load data on their web site today. I don't necessarily agree with some of the data except the Sierra 125gr SPT PH loads and none of them are up to the SAAMI max pressure of 57,500PSI (same as the .204 Ruger) for the cartridge if you convert CUP to PSI.
Bill, Is the brass offered on your web site the Sig brand? Thanks,
Sig Ammunition is AR is just finishing up our first production run of 300 HAM'R cases and they turned out really nice. We'll receive our first shipment late next week.
Also Hodgdon posted 300 HAM'R load data on their web site today. I don't necessarily agree with some of the data except the Sierra 125gr SPT PH loads and none of them are up to the SAAMI max pressure of 57,500PSI (same as the .204 Ruger) for the cartridge if you convert CUP to PSI.
Bill, Is the brass offered on your web site the Sig brand? Thanks,
We're in a transition stage on cases so I will have to check. Once we started receiving Sig mfg cases we have loaded all ammo with them and put our remaining Starline mfg cases in the warehouse for component sales. I'm guessing we've probably sold most of the Starline by now. We're scheduled to receive another shipment from Sig mid-month which is good since we're very low on cases right now. Sales ammo has been very good lately.
Starline is re-tooling and cases off the new tooling should have the increased case capacity too.
Both brands are of excellent quality and the extra capacity really only matters when charge weights go over 28gr.. When pressure testing both cases gave the same basic pressure at the same velocity, but the Starline usually did it with .2-.3gr less powder.
You can tell the two cases apart by the following features:
Starline Headstamp marking is deeper and takes up more of the case head Shoulder is less pronounced
Sig Smaller and lighter headstamp marking Very well formed shoulder (this is where a lot of the extra capacity comes from) All nickel plated (suppressor ammo) cases are Sig mfg
looks like OinK himself got in a little trigger time. nice going Oink, and special thanks to Hud, Team OinK's creative design manager, for the special effects
Here is some more info regarding the accuracy anomalies that I experienced with the 150gr BLK Gold Dot bullet in my 18 inch HAM’Rs. Bill Wilson was kind enough to send me some of his cartridges to try, and I expended them all this morning at 100 yds. – with the understanding that I would provide feedback. Externally, his cartridges looked like mine, with the bullets seated to the same 2.255 OAL. His brass had the new lighter WC case marking that indicates Sig origin, and velocities ran between 2200 and 2250 fps – as opposed to the more aggressive 2300 fps mentioned in earlier posts. Overall, I would note that the group sizes were much better than my initial loads, but not quite in the same league as the 125gr Sierra Pro-Hunters or the 130gr Speer Hot-Cors that I used alongside for comparison. My LabRadar dump and group measurements from this morning’s range session are below for those who are interested.
Wilson-provided 150gr Gold Dots: 2239 fps/19 ES/9.2 SD//1671 ft-lbs. (5 shots) Group size 2.27 inches. I must have been nervous. 2202 fps/29 ES/11.3 SD//1616 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 1.46 inches. 2255 fps/27 ES/10.9 SD//1694 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 1.74 inches (0.95 with first four shots) 2218 fps/56 ES/22.6 SD//1639 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 1.07 inches 2210 fps/16 ES/6.5 SD//1627 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 1.41 inches
130gr Hot-Cors (28.0gr CFE BLK): 2494 fps/23 ES/8.6 SD//1796 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 0.92 inch group 2479 fps/30 ES/12.6 SD//1775 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 0.91 inch group
125gr Pro-Hunters (27.8gr CFE BLK): 2557 fps/15 ES/6.4 SD//1816 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 0.92 inch group 2512 fps/42 ES/15.2 SD//1751 ft-lbs. (5 shots) 0.64 inches – a contiguous hole.
You can always take my approach to loading for the 300 HAM'R. I'm getting such great results with the 125 PH and the 130 HC that I have set aside the thoughts of the 150's. I'll load up a few for any Big Foot sightings and an occasional passing Unicorn, but I'm content to use the 125/130 grain bullets for my go-to loads. They have the mass and performance for anything I'm going to come across and I like the extra 200-plus fps.
My hunting partner feels as if he has to try every bullet/powder combo possible, but I'm content to find one or two good loads and sit back and enjoy the hunt.
The 130's HC's shoot very good in my Ham'r but I sure wish it would eject the brass down at my feet. The brass is literally gone when shot in ankle high grass and I am a tite wad besides having to work up new brass to take up for the lost brass. We had a sounder of about 20 working their way across what is to be a wheat field and I let go of about 10 rds of which I found 1 empty. Oh well it is raining so I have something t do.
If max accuracy is your thing then the Speer 125gr TNT and the Sierra 125gr SPT PH are the way to go, they have proven to consistently be the most accurate in all barrels we've tested. I only have a couple of uppers that shoot the 150gr loads 1" or so, mostly 1.5" range which has been getting the job done just fine on hogs. Like Graycard my GO TO load is still the Speer 130gr HAM'R HOT-CORE, it typically shoots well in most barrels and kills hogs and deer VERY well.
Introduction: I drank the 300 hamr coolaide concept and this thread has great information on that flavor.
My go to ranch/truck rifle is my model 94 iron sight 30/30 with speer 110 HP rounds for yotes and badgers. (No big cats encountered yet) I wanted to play with an AR platform to maybe replace my normal truck gun. This will be my first AR build since my M16 and M14 days, and will be this 20" 300 hamr.
Working up my hamr bullet stock as we speak, rcbs dies, 500 rnds speer 130 HC (was fortunate to have them on the shelf for my M1 garand and other -06 variants) with a 1000 pieces of starline brass to start with. I did read the above switch to Sig brass for possibly heavier rounds. Interested to see where that goes.
Anyhow, this is a great thread and keep up the good work. I see a thermal scope in the coolaide mix eventually.
buddy just got a new hamr and factory ammo. pretty hot to sight in with thermal in daytime so we used a steel plate at 100. since we were looking at splashes rather than bullet holes, hard to get an idea on group size. guessing the 150s were cpl inches. the 110 and 125 were stacking up on the same spot (plate we shot is not the one in the background). he was suppressed and all empties were 5:00.
and of course, a few hogs got in the way of some flying sledge hammers over the weekend...
Finally a sunny Sunday. (My standard "fun day" at the range.) I had a batch of 300 HAM'R test loads and thought it was time to recoup the brass. In the process I used rifles with a 16", an18" and a 20" barrel. Just for your information; there was a jump of 63 fps going from the 16" to the 18". Going from 18" to 20" jumped the velocity by 65 fps. (16" = 2502 fps, 18" = 2565 fps, 20" = 2630 fps) Basically a jump of 32 fps per inch from 16 to 20 inches.
All of the loads were with the Speer 130 gr. Hot Core with my best group of the day measuring 7/16" and the largest measuring 1 3/16". Most groups were in the 5/8 to 7/8" range. I have to take my hat off to the guys at the plant. Those boys know how to make a barrel.
The bad news is I still have five weeks till our gun season for deer opens.
djones "he was suppressed and all empties were 5:00." Thanks for the pics and with a suppressor. any wear on the deflector with that load and setup? 5:00 is close and with factory ammo. (I am ) Still working on a thermal though. Thanks for the updates.
Graycard "Those boys know how to make a barrel." I have another 20" barrel on order to play with. Thanks for your info as well. 5 more weeks? ouch
Last edited by TedG; 10/22/1901:51 AM. Reason: chose this over the 7-08 round
TedG, That just gives me five more weeks of playing time at the range. I feel sorry for the rest of you, you have to listen to me moan and bit... for the next five weeks.
Besides, another bear may wander by between now and then. You should enjoy the 20" barrel. My hunting partner called yesterday to give me the range results of the 20" barrel he picked up. He was a happy camper!
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