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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7518866
05/24/19 02:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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Also valid to remember why this suit came about, Indian game warden was poaching
Not just any game warden either. He was the supervisor over the tribal game wardens. He claimed he was sustenance hunting but he cut the head off of the elk he killed in Wyoming and left the rest to rot. None of that really mattered as far as the SCOTUS ruling however. It was mostly about the legal definition of "unoccupied lands".
Last edited by Palehorse; 05/24/19 03:22 AM.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7518896
05/24/19 03:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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It doesn’t take much for a tribe to decimate a herd, just drive through crow reservation. Especially with no restrictions including wintering ground skillet shoots. Reason why we don’t have year long seasons.
Ya gotta admit, there is a bit of irony in us white folks complaining about the indiscriminate slaughter of plains animals by native Americans.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Palehorse]
#7518931
05/24/19 04:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,398
Lakhota
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It doesn’t take much for a tribe to decimate a herd, just drive through crow reservation. Especially with no restrictions including wintering ground skillet shoots. Reason why we don’t have year long seasons.
Ya gotta admit, there is a bit of irony in us white folks complaining about the indiscriminate slaughter of plains animals by native Americans. Isn’t that the truth! However, there was nothing indiscriminate about how or why it was done. There was one reason and one reason only kill the food source and you will be able to control them!
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Lakhota]
#7519045
05/24/19 01:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,556
ducknbass
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It doesn’t take much for a tribe to decimate a herd, just drive through crow reservation. Especially with no restrictions including wintering ground skillet shoots. Reason why we don’t have year long seasons.
Ya gotta admit, there is a bit of irony in us white folks complaining about the indiscriminate slaughter of plains animals by native Americans. Isn’t that the truth! However, there was nothing indiscriminate about how or why it was done. There was one reason and one reason only kill the food source and you will be able to control them! I'm no more guilty if that than I am white folks owning slaves. Bringing it up is odd, the north American wildlife conservation model is the model of the world.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Lakhota]
#7519080
05/24/19 01:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
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It doesn’t take much for a tribe to decimate a herd, just drive through crow reservation. Especially with no restrictions including wintering ground skillet shoots. Reason why we don’t have year long seasons.
Ya gotta admit, there is a bit of irony in us white folks complaining about the indiscriminate slaughter of plains animals by native Americans. Isn’t that the truth! However, there was nothing indiscriminate about how or why it was done. There was one reason and one reason only kill the food source and you will be able to control them! Palehorse, It can be argued either way with historical facts https://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/18/us/big-indian-elk-kill-leads-to-call-for-game-law.html
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7519091
05/24/19 02:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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It doesn’t take much for a tribe to decimate a herd, just drive through crow reservation. Especially with no restrictions including wintering ground skillet shoots. Reason why we don’t have year long seasons.
Ya gotta admit, there is a bit of irony in us white folks complaining about the indiscriminate slaughter of plains animals by native Americans. Isn’t that the truth! However, there was nothing indiscriminate about how or why it was done. There was one reason and one reason only kill the food source and you will be able to control them! Palehorse, It can be argued either way with historical facts https://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/18/us/big-indian-elk-kill-leads-to-call-for-game-law.htmlYep, I've heard other stories about slaughter and waste on the Crow reservation as well.
Last edited by Palehorse; 05/24/19 02:02 PM.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7519098
05/24/19 02:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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I guess my opinion on the matter is, if a tribal member is truly exercising his right to harvest game per the treaty and is using the game to feed his family or others on the reservation, I don't have a problem with that. It's the wanton waste that gets me in the gut. No excuse for that.
Last edited by Palehorse; 05/24/19 02:15 PM.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Palehorse]
#7519111
05/24/19 02:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487 |
Also valid to remember why this suit came about, Indian game warden was poaching
Not just any game warden either. He was the supervisor over the tribal game wardens. He claimed he was sustenance hunting but he cut the head off of the elk he killed in Wyoming and left the rest to rot. None of that really mattered as far as the SCOTUS ruling however. It was mostly about the legal definition of "unoccupied lands". End of the day hopefully the crow tribal council decides to strictly govern themselves. If they abuse it with will weaken federal land ownership. It’s kind of scary if you have read the liberal Y2Y initiative. Y2Y only recognizes first peoples rights to hunt, while also furthering Apex Predator expansion, thus limiting sustainability for long term hunting by general population anyway. I don’t think this is the intended path by this ruling, but when you look at what’s going on in Canada and trickling down here... it’s more and more looking that way.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Palehorse]
#7519118
05/24/19 02:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487 |
I guess my opinion on the matter is, if a tribal member is truly exercising his right to harvest game per the treaty and is using the game to feed his family or others on the reservation, I don't have a problem with that. It's the wanton waste that gets me in the gut. No excuse for that. I bet if you took a poll of someone taking game regardless of decent, out of season or past tag allocation to truly provide for the family, Majority would not chastise it, or convict, with one exception species. With no stipulation for regulation on harvest, what is sustainable and feeding family mean when it comes to individual species? Big horn sheep and Moose are perfect examples, those are fragile species.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: ducknbass]
#7519127
05/24/19 02:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,410
Choctaw
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I wonder of there is anything similar to for the Choctaw in Oklahoma. If so my wife is getting a new deer rifle and the girls will be participating Sooner than later. velvet buck here I, ooops I mean here they come. No, there isn't.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7519188
05/24/19 03:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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I guess my opinion on the matter is, if a tribal member is truly exercising his right to harvest game per the treaty and is using the game to feed his family or others on the reservation, I don't have a problem with that. It's the wanton waste that gets me in the gut. No excuse for that. I bet if you took a poll of someone taking game regardless of decent, out of season or past tag allocation to truly provide for the family, Majority would not chastise it, or convict, with one exception species. With no stipulation for regulation on harvest, what is sustainable and feeding family mean when it comes to individual species? Big horn sheep and Moose are perfect examples, those are fragile species. Are you saying that I might have to give up my spotted owl pot pie recipe?
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Palehorse]
#7519193
05/24/19 04:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,487 |
I guess my opinion on the matter is, if a tribal member is truly exercising his right to harvest game per the treaty and is using the game to feed his family or others on the reservation, I don't have a problem with that. It's the wanton waste that gets me in the gut. No excuse for that. I bet if you took a poll of someone taking game regardless of decent, out of season or past tag allocation to truly provide for the family, Majority would not chastise it, or convict, with one exception species. With no stipulation for regulation on harvest, what is sustainable and feeding family mean when it comes to individual species? Big horn sheep and Moose are perfect examples, those are fragile species. Are you saying that I might have to give up my spotted owl pot pie recipe? No, thanks to the no cutting or removal of dead timber, no logging, no control burns and no lead bullets, etc in California, they saved the owl, but When was the last time you shared though....., bogart?
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7519525
05/25/19 12:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7519548
05/25/19 12:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Cutting an elk’s head off and leaving it to rot is not even hunting, much less subsistence hunting.
It’s a crazy world sometimes....
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7519549
05/25/19 12:58 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055
HWY_MAN
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Sounds to me like the right decision was made, the US Government had a treaty with that tribe and they honored it.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Palehorse]
#7519644
05/25/19 03:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,797
dogcatcher
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Are you saying that I might have to give up my spotted owl pot pie recipe?
Substitute pigeons for owls, they are just as tasty and nasty. Last time I was in the hospital one day for lunch they had this "brown meat", really not sure what it was, but I asked the nurse if she knew what it was, she said she didn't, I said have you noticed the number of pigeons flying around HMC is a lot less than a year ago, She said that can't be pigeon, and I had to breal out laughing.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Palehorse]
#7519649
05/25/19 03:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,533
SnakeWrangler
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Anyone wanna bet they are democrap/Hillary/Barry supporters.....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#7519655
05/25/19 03:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
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Last edited by Palehorse; 05/25/19 03:33 AM.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: HWY_MAN]
#7519728
05/25/19 12:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,221
Grizz
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Sounds to me like the right decision was made, the US Government had a treaty with that tribe and they honored it. On a legal level I agree. They weren't deciding anything on the issue of wasting game, just the base question pertaining to the treaty. From what I've read, the treaty must still be honored based on the wording (and lack thereof). The tribe should handle the wasting of game issue internally and should generally be policing themselves, and IMO this guy should be hammered. There's no excuse for what he did. The courts can't make decisions base on emotion, they have to rely on the law and legal precedent. Based on that, I'm not sure they could have decided any other way regardless of how I feel personally.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Grizz]
#7519768
05/25/19 02:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Sounds to me like the right decision was made, the US Government had a treaty with that tribe and they honored it. On a legal level I agree. They weren't deciding anything on the issue of wasting game, just the base question pertaining to the treaty. From what I've read, the treaty must still be honored based on the wording (and lack thereof). The tribe should handle the wasting of game issue internally and should generally be policing themselves, and IMO this guy should be hammered. There's no excuse for what he did. The courts can't make decisions base on emotion, they have to rely on the law and legal precedent. Based on that, I'm not sure they could have decided any other way regardless of how I feel personally. Unfortunately, you guys are in the minority these days. At the SC level, most decisions are based on pure politics. That’s why we even have the terms “liberal” justices and “conservative” justices and the votes can be predicted with about 90% certainty based on their politics alone.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7519887
05/25/19 05:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,243
Erny
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The Justices made the right decision. I find it difficult to believe that some justices actually voted that the treaty did not apply. I am not happy with the Tribe winning this one, but their treaty specifically allows them to hunt the unoccupied lands of Wyoming. The Indian who won this is a POS who cuts heads off elk and leaves the meat to rot. Wyoming will just have to come up with a plan to address this increased hunting in the areas bordering the Tribal reservation.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7519928
05/25/19 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,797
dogcatcher
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The tribe should have handled this a long time before the courts became involved.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7521055
05/27/19 07:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,350
Duck_Hunter
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Cases like this should be decided based on the language and meaning used when the treaty (or bill of rights, exec) was written. People use 2019 language and definitions to translate or determine stuff written 100 years ago and it just doesn’t work. The second amendment is a great example of this. The federalist papers provide background for a lot of the discussion back then.
The Supreme Court should take that in to account when decided cases based on language a long time ago, treaties included.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Crow Native American wins hunting case...
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7521093
05/27/19 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,533
SnakeWrangler
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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