“For 400 and under a fast cartridge really earns its stripes because it eliminates the need for dialing - or even thinking much for that matter if your rifle is sighted in to take advantage of that speed. Up to 300 or so just put the crosshairs on the animal’s vitals and kill it. Between 300-400 hold a little high as needed. Never hold off hair. Simple.“

I’m pushing 3200 fps and at 400 it drops 22 inches. That, most certainly, does not eliminate the need for dialing in a hunting situation. At 300 it’s dropping 9.4” so crosshairs on the vitals is also a no go in most situations.

My .257 wby is moving a 110 grain accubonds at 3500 FPS, sighted in dead on at 200 it’s 12” low at 400

I think the reason the 6.5 is popular with baby boomers is they don’t like getting kicked by their 7mm’s and 06’s anymore and appreciate a modest kicking rifle with good ballistics for the deer under a feeder at 100 yards type hunting that is typical in a lot of areas

It's called MPBR, not sighting in at 100yds.

This thread!

Thanks for making my point.

You're shooting a high speed, that doesn't drop much. Your uneducated analysis of the 6.5 Creedmoor, is why my last pointis what it is. It is not high speed. Factory ammo is more than 100 fps less than my 2780 fps hand loads. Yet, it can still run distance, because of people learning how to do it, WITHOUT high speed.

Which 7mm? That is a bore measurement by the way.

Oh God! You said ballistics!

Deer can be killed under a feeder at 100 yards, by almost any centerfire cartridge. Try again...

Another one of those make you smile posts. This one is easy to read between the lines. I'm not down talking anybody's shooting ability here and its likely the most precise longrange marksmen reside in the dialing camp. I also have a good idea which group has the most experienced big game hunters, with the trophies to back it.
It always seems to turn into a pissing contest....rather than understanding both disciplines take different skill sets and the best rifles and most sensible shooting styles for the task are not the same....

My problem with people using the MPBR theory of +/- 3” is the assumption that your shot is perfect to start with. If your aim is 2” off at 300 yards then you just shot 5” low. In most hunting situations 2” off at 300 yards would be considered good shooting. Using MPBR you just wounded an animal. Also 400 yards never comes into play, the fastest flattest shooting of them will get you to 310 yards or so. That still assuming your shot is perfect.

50 minutes ago, I made three shots, using the pipe and cable fence as a support, seated, kneeling, standing. 400 yards, no dialing, holding elevation and wind. Many of us have stated it before, but evidently it needs repeating. We hold for shots, too.

So you can't be off the same 2" if you're using a mil/moa reticle?

I'm sure you have the ability and shoot enough to do it quickly. I love to shoot and in the off season I play around with longrange stuff because it makes me better and it's a hell of a lot of fun. I usually choose different rifles for most big game applications. Just different tools that suit me for what I'm doing a little better.
I guess to me it's not an either or where one group is right and the other is wrong, where a lot of these discussions end up.

No kidding. I should have left well enough alone.

If you dial at 300 and you’re off 2” then you’re off 2”. If you’re using Maximum Point Blank Range theory you’re already 3” low at 300. Being off 2” low from your shot will (potentially) put you out of the vitals.

I can stack em pretty good from a bench but in a hunting scenario being off 2” is pretty common for me.

I hunted MPBR / 7mag for over 30 years. Killed the crap outa muley's, whitetails, aoudad, and antelope. It ain't that hard. I will admit the mil/mil setup with a bulletproof scope is much easier though..

That’s correct. There is no right or wrong without context and knowing what the desired objective is.

I always point out that beyond 400 dialing for precision is a must for consistent success to be achieved.

Yet many of the “shooters” either don’t understand the use of MPBR in the field or simply refuse to acknowledge it exists.

I constantly hear stories from outfitters, guides, hunters, and landowners of the increasing number of folks who come hunting that only know dialing, and insist of dialing at any distance over 100 yards - wasting time and sometimes missing out on shot opportunities because of it.
These are the same type people calling others “idiots”, “numbskulls”, etc. if you don’t do it their way. They simply don’t know what they don’t know. Lol makes me wonder how they think any game was taken prior to the invention of dialing scopes.

Who dials when they're hunting? That's what a mil or MOA-based reticle is for. It's fast and easy to ACCURATELY hold for wind and elevation. I swear this has been explained to you before. And you still don't know your @$$ from your elbow.

But he is still going to grandstand and look down upon thou like he does every [censored] time this comes up

Ooh Ooh! I know! I know!

This feels like a re-run of me and my wife arguing. Both of us think the other is a complete idiot and neither hears a single thing the other is saying.

I hear what he's saying, but for some stupid reason he doesn't understand the deal. I've shot entire matches without dialing a single time.


I got 6th in one of Jason's matches without ever unscrewing my turret caps. With this reticle:

I’m with ya supercalifragilisticexpialidoches! I like that one. I need to get it for my huntin’ rig