why are yall so down on the texas trophy hunters association. you act like it is just a bunch of rich kids playing ranch with daddy's money. all jerry johnston did was find a way to make money doing what he enjoyed, hunting whitetail deer. the people who rag on the ttha are the same people who shoot 130 class 2 1/2 year old ten points every year. now i'm not for highfencing 300 acres and bringing in deer from kansas and selling deer hunts for 10 grand a pop. but i also enjoy hunting a ranch were seeing 5 or 6 decent bucks a day are the rule, not the exception.

Sorry you are upset at us for giving our opinion on the subject and organization. One thing I know for sure is, we are entitled to give our oppinion. I am glad you are a TTHA'er, I glad I am not. I glad you are able to see and not worry about your neighbor shooting that 2 1/2 130 class. In my book that is a good buck and that buck will make my first bow buck a trophy to me. JMO.

I hear you. Welcome to the fourm.
I've been a member for quite some time. I enjoy reading the magazines. The only thing that I disagree with is all of the ads about these super-freak bucks that people breed and hunt.

i don't support everything they do but i will defend them for what they are about, making their time afield better by providing themselves with bettr range conditions. i agree the emphasis should be placed on the hunt, not the trophy, but most hunts i went on before i moved here were on a better than average lease in east texas and they were mediocre at best. that doesent' neccisarily make for good times. i got excited when our neighbor shot a 150 class deer, but not when he would shoot two forkhorn yearlings. maybe people,( i'm talkin experianced hunters, not first timers or kids) should be ridiculed and embarassed when they bring a immature deer back to camp. i know i was, and it not only made be more selective, but also a better hunter.

also, in reference to your statement about your 2 1/2 year old ten point making a great trophy, why is it only a trophy when taken with a bow? if its the challenge of using a bow that makes a kill a trophy, then shoot a doe or cull buck, not a deer that has serious potential

the rich kids are the ones featured in the articles killing the big buck, the guys that make ttha what it is are the landowners, most of whom are not super rich, who put in place management practices to produce bucks like that. most emphasis is placed on age and health conditions of a deer, not just antler measurements

This is exactly what i talked about in a thread the other day. Hunters arguing with hunters on methods and ethics of hunting. It only creates division and that's the worst thing that could happen to the future of hunting. It's true, we can be our own worst enemy.

Very sad.

Were were all of you on the other TTHA thread?

I support them, I am a member...and I applaud the man who worked very hard to purchase a ranch, spend time and money improving his deer herd and if he makes a buck or two selling some hunts, then more power to him.

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his deer herd

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I believe that the deer in Texas belong to all hunters not the person who's land they are on. I also do not believe it is right for another person to bash anyone for taking a legal deer regaurdless of age, size or anything else. When a person buys a license they are paying for the right to kill any legal deer in the county they are hunting in. If someone wants to take a 10 pnt 2 1/2 year old that is their right. I wouldnt do it but I will share in their joy for that being a trophy to them. I keep hearing the same old song about antler restrictions improving the size and quality of the Texas deer herd. I believe the Texas deer herd has done nothing but increase in size and quality without those restrictions. Otherwise why would the price of hunting in Texas be on the increase? Why is it ok for some to remove what they consider inferior deer from their land and not ok for someone else to shoot what they consider a trophy to them on their land? We all need to get a grip and understand that there are always going to be 2 types of hunters. Those who kill for meat and those who kill for horns and neither has the right to bash the other.

His deer herd....means the deer on his land. Like our deer herd on our lease or whatever. Yes, deer belong to the state, now those bought and brought in from other states for breeding in breeding pens....I will argue that the state does not own them, but the state can regulate the sceientific breeding program. Thus we have Managed deer land where folks can start hunting with a rifle in October.

So, his...means the deer on his land. If I go look at a place, I ask the owner...About how many deer do you think you have out here per acre....Ownership is not implied.

Besides...How many folks would subscribe or advertise in a magazine...called "Texas Meat Hunters" ? Point is a 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 year old 10 should be allowd the chance to grow...if you want meat, then shoot something else. Improve your own herd on your land, lease, or yet for the state.

You are correct though, there will always be two divisions of hunters. And nobody should tell the others what to do or what they did is wrong...Though, the average hunter is sure quick to point to TTHA and other outfits for ruining deer hunting in the state.

I am all for kids hunting, and if a kid messes up, fine with me. What I do not like is the fact that some kids are given the chance to shoot a heck of a big buck to what in my opinion is too early in life. Then what do they do next? What is hunting to them after that? I like to see them work their way up in the experience dept. But then again, the mindset of giving them things we did not have comes into play. If they get one on their own, great! But guys I hunt with, do not allow their boys or girls to shoot anything wall worthy until they have hunted for quite some time and appreciate it more then the fact they know have a trophy for the wall.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you on the subject of deer brought in for breeding.

I don't belong to TTHA, but sure would bash someone that did. To each his own. Now, if someone starts telling me what deer I can adn can't kill because of their ethics and ethos, then I have a problem with that, no matter what organization they belong to or don't belong to. I hate to see any one group have too much influence with government and impose their ideas of what is right on others, no matter what the topic.

I would hate to see an overall restriction for the benefit of a few, that is for sure. My take is let the guys mess with the deer and try to improve the genetics, if they make money, then fine.

I would not want a county by county or statewide...hunting program that has you check your deer into a station for weights, age, etc...and implementation of shooting a doe or two before you are issued a buck tag.

I think most of us agree that the world is round, but when it comes to deer hunting, coke vs pepsi, ford vs chevy, then we all will differ in some shape, form or fashion. I would not want to try to change anybody's opinion, thought, or practice and hopefully they will not try to do the same to me.

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I would not want to try to change anybody's opinion, thought, or practice and hopefully they will not try to do the same to me.

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Amen Steve, this is what I am saying. I give me opinion and that is all it is, I will not bash anybody that has a different opinion. Whether it the size of the lease or the size of the horns, high fence or low fence. I'm still going to get along with my neighbor if all possible.

I just think the stickers are neat-o!!

Thats what we get for allowing children on the THF

I would say i am just a hunter....I love to go to the lease and spend time and hunt. If i get the chance to shoot something then thats great. We prolly shoot one or two "trophy" deer a year. But if someone, including me, shoots a young or imature buck...it doesnt bother me. i enjoy the hunt and the meat. horn are just a bonus to me. i would love to manage the place, but most people around there see and shoot. i bet i hear 75-100 shots in the morning of opening season. I know for sure they are not all does or mature deer. Thats just the way it is. But as far as someone managing deer to only shoot big ole boys ...thats great do what you want.

SEEMS TO ME THOSE SELECTVELY BREAD DEER ARE IN ABOUT THE SAME CATAGORY AS EXOTICS. THEY ARE BASICALLY "OWNED" AND USUALLY IN HIGH FENCED AREAS AND GUIDED HUNTS. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT AT ALL -YOU DICIDE IF YOU WANT TO HUNT THERE AND YOU DICIDE IF IT IS "FAIR CHASE"
TO EACH HIS OWN DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO AND I WON'T TELL YOU WHAT TO DO... FAIR ENOUGH.

I DO LIKE TO SEE THE PICTURES OF THOSE DEER... EVEN IF I WILL NEVER SEE ONE LIKE THAT ON MY LEASE IT SEEMS TO RAISE MY STANDARDS OF WHAT A "TROPHY " IS.
THOSE DEER ARE JUST LIKE WOMEN... SOME PEOPLE CAN AFFORD A BUEATIFUL ONE, SOME HAVE TO SETTLE FOR WHAT THEY CAN GET, AND SOME JUST GET LUCKY !

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THOSE DEER ARE JUST LIKE WOMEN... SOME PEOPLE CAN AFFORD A BUEATIFUL ONE, SOME HAVE TO SETTLE FOR WHAT THEY CAN GET, AND SOME JUST GET LUCKY !

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I like that, THAT'S ME!

I JOIN'D LAST FALL AND WILL NOT AGAIN. ALL I GET IS A MAGIZINE FULL OF ADS TRYING TO SELL ME EITHER DEER WITH HORNS NO DEER COULD GROW IN THE WILD, OR EQUIPTMENT THAT ONLY RICH FOLKS CAN AFFORD. WAS TOLD THAT I WOULD GET A KNIFE, STICKER FOR TRUCK(THESE ARE NEAT-O), AND SOMETHING ELSE I CANT REMEMBER, BUT ALL I GET IS THE MAG.

THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT

I know yall are going to bash me, but hey I got some sleep this morning and I am ready. TTH has done wonders and far more than any one organization to better the horns in the country. High fences fall right in line with all of that. I don't believe in either one. I feel sorry for the people that fall into the catagory which believe hunting behind a high fencne is hunting at all. It is not hunting. Those ranchers know exactly what bucks they have and what they don't have. Selecting from a menu and waiting for the moment the deer steps out is not hunting. I have 29 cows and one bull on our place in Flatonia. For the right price anyone can come up there and shoot one. Tell me the difference, other than the obvious it does not have 180 inches on the head. The almighty dollar has destroyed south Texas and what it used to be. Endless brush country that has now been cut up and high fenced. It kills me when I go down there to see the fences. The true south Texas I grew up with has been destroyed. It has been destroyed because of a kind of person that demands satisfaction no matter what he pays for it. People that don't realize trying to accomplish a goal is just that. Not, well I could not do it that way so I will pay for it another way and get it done. That to me shows people have missed the real zest of hunting. My idea of hunting is the chance, not the absolute. Campfire with a mixed beverage and stories about old moss horn. Not, here is your check for $10,000. Now where should I go to shoot him? I ask you to ponder this. Some people say well the ranch is so big the high fence just doesn't really matter. I doesn't matter because it is so big it is really like fair chase. If it is so big and the deer are hunted under a fair chase situation then why fence it? How big does it have to be, where is the cut off from a pen to a fair chase hunt? Is 100 acres too small? Is a 1000 acres big enough? Maybe 2000 will make it look not so much like a pen. Tell me the amount of acres it takes to where it is no longer a pen and becomes fair chase. I have heard the fences are to keep the bad out, not the good in. BS. It is to keep and breed deer for the almighty dollar. As I said earlier I feel sorry for those who have listened to that BS and can't make up their own mind as to what is hunting and what is not. Bought off on that BS so the dollars can be made. I can't blame the ranchers, they have to get by in an ever changing world. Every time the world changes it costs money. I blame the ones that go write a check and sit in the chair, ready to kill the old illusive moss horned buck that can't get out of harms way BECAUSE HE IS IN A PEN. Some of yall are gonna pound me and some will applaud. Those that will pound me should know you will never change my mind on this issue. I will never trade my hunting values for a penned animal. Nor will I let myself get caught up in believing, if I don't kill a 180 class buck I have failed at hunting. NEVER.

Hey will all of yall go over to deertexas.com site and start this thread and argue with those snott heads so i can laugh for once

PLEASE