What's your opinion of the Vortex Crossfire 3-9X 40 Scope with Dead-Hold BDC reticle? Is the published data for elevation and windage for an "Average" big game rifle anywhere close to accurate??

Thanx

I would shy away from the Vortex Chinese made crap personally.

Do not expect the reticles to match up in a nice and neat manner. Play with Vortex's LRBC and you'll get an idea.

The BDC reticle referenced in the manual is a guesstimate at best and only on maximum zoom (9x in your case). The range values will change with each change in magnification (ex: yardage at 8X will be different than 9X). Take the yardage estimated with a cup of salt.

You can use a ballistic calculator and get guesstimates based upon your ammo's specs. Create a cheatsheet and tape it to your rifle. More accurate than relying upon Vortex's generalities but still not 100% accurate. Typically this is good enough for "minute of deer".

Better ways exist but this is a starting point.

Hard pass

Could be an upgrade. What are you using now?

Mines fine on a bolt action .223 with leupold rings, past that, I’d go American made

Nikon prostaff is much better.

I have 2 of them and they are fine for daytime but lowlight, which is hog light, they really are bad.

First one had manufacture problems. Sent it in and got a new replacement. Works great so far on a .458 socom.

Here's a picture of a target that I shot this weekend with the cheap piece of junk.
It took four shots to zero my Mossberg Patriot 30-06 at 100 yards.
Adjustments (clicks) worked fine and accurately.
Zeroed shot is on center/right target, 1" high at 12 O'clock.

Fancy target stand. I just grab a trash pallet from work for mine. Wouldn't you prefer a group of shots to determine zero? What if you accidentally shot that last one low by human error?

Gary, I have a bag rest setup that allows an absolute solid hold for every shot. That's why I was able to tell that the Vortex "clicks" were exactly 1/4 minute at 100 yards.
The "zeroed" shot was as solid as I have ever squeezed off a round and I had no wind on Saturday morning.
The fancy target stand is made from one 8' 2 X 4 , one 8' 1 X 4 and 12 deck screws (see picture).

Then why did it take 4 shots?

Because I like to "sneak up" on zero. And, I wanted the barrel to be fouled before next hunting season....

Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense to me.

Still trying to keep your post count up, I see..

explain the logic please

Shot 1-To get on paper from factory boresight
Shot 2- To verify that cheap scope not damaged by recoil
Shot 3- First click adjustment to verify 1/4 minute accuracy
Shot 4- Final clicks and zeroed.

What's not to understand??

I understand what you've done and suppose nothing is wrong with it. I never said I didn't understand, our logic just differs. When I sight in:
shot 1- to verify zero is off and get windage and elevation measurements to zero
shots 2-6 to get group and determine if further adjustment is needed, if cheap/pos scope is discovered, discard & purchase quality scope (this situation has only occurred once, buy once cry once)
either way, cat has been skinned

Will my post count go down, if I stop posting?

Gary: Please understand this...
If you read thru this entire thread you will see that I asked for an OPINION on the Vortex scope that was part of a rifle/scope package I purchased.
Immediately, I got a response that the scope was cheap Chinese junk and I might as well discard it.
I got another response the "Nikon Pro Staff is better" Think that answers my request??
The rifle was claimed to be factory boresighted, so I thought it necessary to see if, in fact, I could get on paper at 100 yards. Result is shot#1 Top right target at 7 O'clock.
In trepidation that scope could not handle recoil from 30-06 (Chinese Junk?) Shot #2 Left center target at 7 O'clock. Joy! Scope is still together and repeats shot placement.
Just for grins, lets see if the clicks work O.K. (Clicks "spongy" from another thread) clicked "up" to get 1" above center.See sho#3 center right target at 10 O'clock Clicks seem to work O.K., Miracle??
Clicked right to get centered,,1" high at 12 O'clock, dead center, ZEROED.
You bet your sweet [censored] that nothing is wrong with my procedure.

Have a good day.

No fireman, you seem to do a fine job of offering your opinion on any subject. Sometimes it just takes you longer to get around to making a comment. Some of the comments are "off the wall" IMO.

You didn't seem to mind help with your AR trigger thread. Isn't the reason people ask questions is to get answers? I am never off the wall.

You won't last long around here, with the giant chip on your shoulder.

I plan on being around for a while. I have been warned about people who consider this website their personal playground. Take a good look in the mirror, CHIP!

Yeah, OK.

I just asked for an explanation of why you "sneak up" on center and complimented your target stand. You seem defensive and have explained your procedure twice. I understood it the first time and never said a thing negative about it. Breath deep and have a couple beers. You're wound up tight.

DH, I'm glad the first session worked out for you, and I'm not going into personal attack mode so don't take it like that. However, 4 shots is a very poor indicator of how a scope will hold zero and give you a repetitive POI. That will take place over a period of time after numerous rounds are fired. In fact, if it were me, I'd probably run through about 100 rounds to prove to yourself (you only have to please yourself) that the scope is capable. I don't know how you hunt, but I'd want to be sure.

Jgraider; I understand your method. It just does not work for me.
First, the idea of shooting 100 rounds of 30-06 to prove anything does not appeal to me strictly from a recoil tolerance standpoint.
A visit to any local gun range in my vicinity (Katy/Houston) just prior to deer season will show the results of hunters shooting box after box of ammo with no clear result,
Jack O'Connor, the famous gun writer, once stated that if a man could hit an 8" dinner plate at 100 yards, he was good to go. That's what I see from the before season shooters.

Where I hunt (My ranch near Del Rio) I have no need to shoot over 150 yards. The 4 shots I fired are enough for me to hunt with that rifle with 100% confidence of a clean kill.

I am not a target shooter, I just enjoy shooting a different rifle, each time I hunt, because I can. That's what pleases me.

I think of a rifle being zeroed when the bullet impacts the exact spot desired when the scope crosshairs intersect the exact center of the target bullseye. Possibly, you consider zeroed when the crosshairs and bullet impact are the same. The "spot desired" in my case is 1" high at 100yards, my aim point is same as yours.
The reason for the repeat was to explain the "whys" of my process to others who seemed to have difficulty understanding it.

So is the Vortex Crossfire a decent scope?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

^^^ This is why people on here don’t like you. You ask questions, yet you take the answers as criticism and then you create arguments. You’re barking up the wrong tree with a few of the people in this thread that know what they are doing.

I have an old Crossfire II 2-7. It's probably 7 or 8 years old. I've had it on a bunch of rifles over the years and it's worked just fine. It's been on a 556 AR for the last few years. I don't seem to have the problems that other people claim to have with any Vortex scopes though.

I've been saying this since I saw him post for the first time. There's no way in hell he can act like this in real life. Somebody would've clobbered him already.

I was just wondering you see them a lot on the various "package" guns.

Thanks a bunch,
LeonCarr

Leon, The Crossfire worked great on my rifle, so my answer is yes.

Dove Killer: Your response on Vortex scopes is the type of response I was looking for.
Your response on why I am unliked is just another attempt to push my button.
The same "elite" group manages to find my posts on a regular basis.

Figured it out a long time ago when I got a PM that named names.

You have a fine day and enjoy your rifles and scopes..

Now I'm clear on your zero. I have seen this at the range and was told it is because it does not effect group size and keeps the point of aim in tact. That was for target shooting. If you are hunting with this setup, why do you have POI an inch high?

Honest question. Why shoot at two different targets to verify the scope isn't affected by recoil?

No other groups shot after the final zero? Can you you really be certain your next shot is indeed 1" high at 100?

I’ve mounted a bunch of Crossfire scopes and can’t stand them. Glass is inferior to my eyes and eye box and eye relief suck in my opinion.

Gary, some rifle shooters prefer to get a rifle zeroed to the exact point of aim, THEN adjust with a number of clicks up to allow for bullet drop over distance. Since the scope appeared to be "dead on" according to bullet movement observed, I skipped that step and dialed in my bullet drop allowance of 1".
Where I hunt (My Ranch) the longest shot I will ever need to take is 143 yards (verified with laser rangefinder) so there is no reason to increase the bullet drop allowance. As a matter of fact 1" is so minimal that I could have just as easily zeroed to the point of aim. I am just a creature of habit and have always adjusted my rifles/ scopes high. 1" is just a number I selected for MY conditions.

Titan, the only things that I can think of that are absolutely certain are death and taxes. I am convinced that: 1. The scope did not self destruct 2. The 1/4 minute clicks were reliable and accurate and 3. My hold on the bullseye was absolutely solid for the zeroing shot.

I can see the argument for further testing but consider this, exactly how many additional shots will it take to make ABSOLUTELY certain that the rifle will repeat shot placement?? Someone on this thread suggested an additional 100 shots The question becomes "Is 100 shots enough" ?? or how did the the suggester select 100 shots as proof of repeatability??
Who is to say that shot #101 is not a flyer??

Please understand that I am not a big fan of recoil. I do not use a lead sled. There is a procedure for ONE shot zero where the shooter takes one shot, returns the rifle to it's previous position and adjusts the scopes crosshairs to center on the shot on target..done!! Imagine the gnashing of teeth and argument THAT process will stir up.

Hope that answers your question.

Boo, you absolutely need to avoid Crossfire scopes like the plague!

DH, I'm the guy that suggested additional rounds to fire, and offered up 100. That was not meant to be shot at one sitting BTW, but over a period of several range sessions. Just wanted to make that clear. You got your rifle zero'd no doubt, but you still have no clue what the capabilities of that scope is, and won't until you shoot it more. That goes for every scope brand out there regardless of price.

Jgraider, I hear you loud and clear. For my rifle/scope combo, I stopped after 4 shots because I am old and feeble and had enough recoil for the day. I was able to prove for my own benefit that the naysayers were wrong about my specific example of an inexpensive scope.
Others mileage may vary. With the next deer season the Vortex will be given the acid test. I will report the result here. Thanks for your input!

Actually, the opposite is true. The two shot zero is impressive, because it reaveals many things going right.

Very tight shooting ammo, rifle, and shooter, as well as a scope that tracks correctly. I do it quite frequently, almost weekly, moving scopes from one rifle to another. And in the case of needing to foul in a clean barrel, I will try for a two shot zero, then shoot 3 more rounds after the first POI adjustment. Cool for 5 minutes, and fire 5 more at a new POA. This also shows how well the rifle is grouping, keeping the same POA for every shot, especially on rounds 6 through 10.

You did not do it that way, thus the questions from several people.

I'm glad it worked out for you. Everybody I have spoken to that actually has a Mossberg Patriot/Vortex Crossfire combo loves it, save for one recently I saw on this forum complaining of scope failure or possible shift in his rings.

I recently picked up a Vortex Diamondback Tactical myself. It isn't as nice as the Leupold VX3i scopes I have looked at, and the FXII also has better glass. But compared to the Rifleman and the VX Freedoms, the Dismondback has better glass, longer eye relief, and easier to get a sight picture with. Plus the reticle is nice, the clicks are positive, and it has a zero reset feature and I got it for $260. I have yet to shoot the rifle so I can't say you can't beat it but with the warranty I doubt you can beat it.

So all of that said, I have to ask, do you feel confident hunting with a rifle and scope that have only been fired four times?

You betcha!

I would never hate on your scope, if it works it works. I think the nut behind the trigger is more important than the price of your equipment.

The most accurate rifle/scope combo I have ever personally owned was just a Ruger American .243 with a $30 tasco. My pockets just ain't that deep. So there is that.

I only ever shot 1 deer in my life, but it was a perfect spine shot and I had no doubts I'd hit where I aimed.

I'd never take a shot at anything, be it a squirrel or a rabbit or even a crow, with a brand new gun and scope I'd only fired 4 times. I'd call that risky.

Forgive me if I hurt your feelings!

I do.




I like the rifle but not the scope.

I am so confused by this thread

I am confused how you'd put your season on a new gun and bundled scope that only been fired four times, ever.

Who does that?

Even with the best gun, optics, and ammo that money can buy, I would not use it to hunt anything without getting a good zero and confirming zero.

Compared to the price of gas to get there, what is a box of ammo to zero and confirm zero? And your time and money invested in other things, a lease, etc. not to mention the ethics of hunting with a weapon you haven't tried to prove out in the smallest kind of way.

Unless of course, you did fire a group to confirm, and it was a little off, and you don't want to share that too?

Does that sound self-righteous of me? I am just saying what everyone else participating in this thread is probably thinking.

Sounds self righteous to me....

I’m going to ignore your negativity. Other than that statement.

I also decided years ago that I do not like a heavy recoiling rifle. Over the years I’ve hunted with and spent range time behind rifles up to my 375 H&H. I once put 30 down range in one setting from the H&H. What I decided was that I was stupid. I will no longer shoot a heavy recoiling rifle without a muzzle brake. For the most part I have started using milder rounds for hunting. 7/08, 6.5x55, etc. if the recoil is uncomfortable in any way I put a brake on it.

What I will not do is own a rifle I can’t take to the range and shoot 30-100 rounds in a session.

As to the crossfire the one I played with was ok until it came to low light. Then it was poor at best. Keep shooting and enjoy the sport. That’s why we’re all here.

I threw a Vortex Crossfire 3-9 x 40 on my truck gun. I have more expensive glass on hunting rifles, but this gun is for varmints, hogs, etc. only. And also did one-shot zero (actually 4 shots) just as DH described. No problems yet - I have shot many more rounds threw the gun and it has stayed on so far - about a year.

Not trying to enter fray on methods or the benefit of high quality equipment, just adding my experience to original question.

Dalroo, you have confirmed what is possible if you are confident of your abilities as a rifleman. There are dozens of theory's on why and how to zero a rifle, just as there are many theory's on how many fired rounds are necessary to be ABSOLUTELY sure that a rifle is truly zeroed.
You only have to read thru this thread to see how different individuals think on the subject..
Since the subject of this blog is OPTICS, my post/s were directed at the performance of a specific scope. My results are there for all to see.
There are plenty of Vortex haters on this website, read thru this thread and you can see some of the names.
It is my personal belief that there are an increasing number of 'Optics Elitists" who firmly believe that good optics can only be attained by spending a bundle of cash. Nothing could be further from the truth!

Vortex has worked well for me when I had a budget, cross fire II and a Diamondback . Still have the diamondback. Only thing I dont like on it is the eye relief is sensitive

The vortex on my Savage is probably the nicest scope I currently own. So there is that.

I'm sure your gun is zeroed.

I've played with enough bundled scope combos to know better than to bet it will stay that way. You haven't fired even a single three shot group.

Is it confidence, or cockiness? I'd call it ignorance.

Optics elitist is the dang truth. I am one myself. When a friend insist that he will not spend the money I yield and tell them to buy a Burris FF or a Nikon Prostaff. Never a Vortex. All the same money but the Prostaff and the Fullfield will get the job done for 98% of hunters. Yes I believe that number to be true. 98%. Call the rest of us glass snobs or what you want. The truth is the cheaper optics have no place at all in the 2% world. They can not touch what half of the 2% do. The problem is neither side is willing to understand the other. If we separated forums the 2% would still need to tell the 98% how they’re doing it wrong. Don’t forget I have became a 2% guy. But I get it.

I'm a 2% owner.

However, when someone comes to me with a scope purchase question the first thing I ask is "what is your budget", and I do my damndest to stay in that budget. When the budget is quite low, and the person is wanting to shoot some distance I tell them an SS fixed 10X or 12X. Find a used one for $300 and it's some of the best money someone can spend.

If you don't use it you loose it?

I guess i shouldnt make it personal. I know it's hard to consider anything from a guy that has only shot one deer. I would bet I've put as many rounds downrange as the most avid shooters on this forum. In my experience even the most durable gear will sometimes fail, right out of the box. That is why I can't see using a brand new gun on four shots.

Would you stake your life on that weapon, after just four shots and not one single group fired? I bet not.

That last sentence is a really good one. Absolutely puts things in perspective. It’s shows the amount of respect one has for an animal. I always want, but not alway achieve, a clean kill. That’s from my ridiculous “buck fever” no matter what the game not my lack of practice.

Are there better scopes than the vortex? Absolutely. Are there worse? Absolutely. My only experience is with the viper gen 1. I have been hunting with it for the past 5 or 6 years and haven't had to turn down a shot or have a fault I can blame on the scope yet. Will I buy another one? Maybe a gen 2, but not another of what I have or lesser of their line. I find it hard to take facts from online scope suggestions because it always seems one mans trash is anothers treasure and "to my eyes" etc. I don't believe in the my eyes, one is better or worse there is no such thing as seeing better when looking through an inferior piece of glass. I think much like anything else (guns, trucks, etc.) it is viewed with personal preference/bias and name recognition/loyalty. Sure would be nice if there was a tool that would take all the human opinion out of it and shine through all the scopes and it would rank from best to worst on clarity and brightness. Tracking and holding zero can be easily enough tested. Yet you can take 2 scopes and set them side by side on the same day same range same target and shooter 1 says scope A is better and Shooter 2 says scope b is better.

JG, is it still human error involved in that test?

I would think so. I don't know what the U.S.A.F. procedure is, or was. Someone with 20/20 vision, corrected, or not tells what they could see, and where the barrier was? That is my educated guess.

Never seen the chart before, im sure it would help make judging optics more objective.

It is always interesting to me that when a "which scope" or "what do you think" scope question comes up, the first and foremost thing referred to in the replies is glass, optics, side by side this one's better, etc. Fact is, optics in a riflescope aren't anywhere near the most important criteria, IMO. Any decent $250 scope nowadays will get you past legal shooting light, so optics are really a given.....it will "work".

The most important rifle scope criteria to me is:

Zero retention
Tracking
Reticle must be usable in poor light
Build quality
Warranty and customer service

All this from an "Expert" who has managed to kill one deer in his lifetime!

Tagging out every year on a 100 acre tract doesn't make you an expert either. Donkey

Laugh all you want. Every Leupold MKIV I have handled failed. Have had ACOGs and Aimpoint 68's that did not track or hold zero right out of the box. Rare but it happens. And almost every ACOG I have ever dealt with at some point or another stops tracking, and requires to be slapped to make adjustments.

M68 is the most durable sight I have ever seen other than steel battle sights. They still fail eventually, and occasionally right out of the box.

I have seen ACOG reticles rattled apart.

You really gonna gamble on a brand new bundled scope after just 4 shots? Ok. You do you booboo. It's gonna fail eventually anyway, probably smarter to use it as little as possibke until it fails. I assume that is your strategy.

I made my point and I am done here.

Another Goober (Multi Poster) with nothing to offer except B.S.

At last, you finally offered up something smart!

"8. We promote a friendly atmosphere for hunters to exchange ideas. Differences of opinions are welcome and are an important part of this format. We do not, however, tolerate those that try to start an argument with every post. If you are looking to agitate people, simply to get a response or if you are a troller, this is not the place for you.

9. No personal attacks – if you disagree with someone, state your case intelligently and back it up with facts. You will be warned once. If the behavior continues, you will be banned from the forum for at least a month and possibly permanently"

Fireman: Does "Donkey" qualify for a personal attack?? Just askin???

It is not up to me. My bet is you will find out, eventually.

DH3, I do not know who got named in this undisclosed PM thread as being problem children but you are not on the winning end of this. Just relax and have fun like the rest of us Sir. This is a great place and a wealth of knowledge

Must have hit some butt hurt I got a PM asking if I was a mod

LMAO! ain’t no way I’m using the scope this thread is about. Not on a .22 not on a BB gun!

Notice that the "Celebrity" Gang has now been heard from. As usual, they are full of threats and "Legends in their own minds".
Notice how they "Promote a friendly atmosphere" and "Do not resort to personal attacks"??

Its available for all to see...a shame.

I believe in “my eyes” because you can have scopes of the same quality from different companies. There will be differences in the lens coatings and the way the glass is ground.

Grow up and stop playing the victim.......you bring this onto your self. Just like in the AR trigger thread you started..... I gave you good advice, never got personal......then you start your rude commentary when you don't always get the comments you want.......what positive comments did you expect posting an animal getting gut shot and commenting now it will learn a lesson........?

I have a feeling we may be dealing with a previously banned member

DH3 this is second thread you was on that I worked real hard to stay positive or not comment at all. Given that, I think you need to consider if this forum is a good fit for you. There are plenty of forums out there that encourage hate and ignorance, this is not one of them.

Pretty much. The only reason I click on his threads is to see how quickly he will spin out of control. He rarely disappoints.

Yesterday you were all done here. Whats up? Trying to get your post count up??

Yep, thanks! I got one more now!

But to be completely honest it's a great little forum and I love to use it, especially when I am not home. So there is that.

I keep lurking on this doggone thread and I just can't leave it alone. It's right there in the optics gate where I follow a whole lot of threads, because you know, I am not an expert...

You might want to substitute the word "were" for the word "was" in the above first sentence. Then, we can have a discussion about "ignorance".

The fact that you are not an expert is abundantly clear.

At what point does grammar come into play here?

I guess you could say I'm a pro... at breaking stuff.

But I'm a sucker for clickbait, and trolls. So here we are.

This hole couldn't get deeper without drilling completely through the earth.

Vortex just doesn’t make the best tool for the job, at any price, but it is a tool many will be happy with. That’s more than I can say about another tool in this thread.

I love this thread!!! It usually take the bunker to get this good.

Lower end Vortex stuff sucks.... unless, you like removing the scope and mailing it back to them from time to time.

DH3. I’m a mechanic and don’t think I’m smart or wealthy.

Please keep throwing the insults.... you make me LOL when you do!!!

Can't tell whether this dude is a young immature kid or a old immature adult. At first glance when reading his replies, it strikes me as a young kid with the play ground insults "I know you are but what am I". But then reading other threads by him, he implies that he is a grandfather. So I guess a little of both and old immature hate filled little man with the insults and comebacks of a 3rd grader on the play ground.

Think your problem is you have no coping skills, it is something you should have learned as a kid, but obviously you didn't. Anytime someone disagrees with you, you get all triggered and go off the deep end. This is a public forum and you asked for an opinion everyone has different opinions and not everyone will agree with you. If someone doesn't move along and don't start with the personal attacks and chest pounding. You're not going to win that fight. A lot of us have been around for a long time and will call you out without hesitation.

For the record, I am an old guy. Before you try to give me some advice, I ask you to do one simple thing. Take a look thru this thread and others I have posted in. CAREFULLY look at the responses, especially from "Celebrities". See exactly who pushed the buttons and ask yourself if what you have posted here is fair.
If you think so, then we have a difference of opinion, it's that simple.
You have a good day sir.

As to the original question i have 2 Vortex scopes but they are Strike Eagles. A 1x6 and a 3x18. Have used the 3x18 (on a 22-250) more but like them both. In my experience published data for an "Average" big game rifle will be OK to about 300 yards but you need to work things out for your setup anyway. There is also what average means. To me it is sorta kinda '06, 270, 300 win mag and 243. When you look at factory ballistic tables the drops, shooting at deer sized animals, the drops for these calibres out to 300 yards are just inches apart.

I've never taken a shot at anything past 200 yards except coyotes and hogs.

Gary

Gary, as stated elsewhere in this thread I have no need to shoot at anything over 150 yards. That's why I zeroed my rifle only 1" high at 100 yards. If I was considering the purchase of a Vortex Crossfire scope, I am not sure that reading thru this thread would help me make a decision. There are PLENTY of detractors and a few posters with some experience to offer. I am well satisfied with mine but today is the Ides of March so the scope could self destruct resting in my safe!

Thanks for your helpful comments.

I typically buy $150-250 Nikon & Burris scopes. I stepped up a notch to Vortex and am satisfied the value is there.

You’re satisfied with yours after 4 shots. I guess that qualifies as “some experience.”

I’ve had three Vortex products over several years of actually being used, but not abused. One was sent in for repairs. One needs to be. The other has been fine. That’s not a stellar track record.

Sneak:

Sneak, Your vote has been recorded in the Detractor column.
Thanks for your input.

So you only consider the (almost) positive comments, and shoot down every single detractor?

If you are looking for Vortex fanboys to make you feel good about the Crossfire, maybe you should post your query in an AR forum somewhere.

If you want feedback from hunters that use their stuff, then you need to have an open mind about it.

Anytime, DH3.

In optics. You just never know where the fun is gonna pop up around here.

I love to hunt. That’s the reason I started owning firearms.

Having said that, I am now an avid shooter and frequent the AR15 forum as well. I have learned a wealth of info there. I have gotten much more positive advice on that forum than this one. Depending on which area of the forum you are in the moderators are no nonsense and this kind of thread would never be tolerated.

As a shooter, I use and abuse my stuff 100 times more than I do as a hunter. So, I really don’t believe that comment you made is accurate at all. Most guys who shoot competitions and are paper shooters get way more experience out of their scopes and rifles than hunters do.

I have had more Leupold scopes that wouldn’t track than Vortex. And if you really want to know what the true optics snobs think at snipershide, there are several high end Vortex scopes that have a great reputation among competition shooters.

The fact that everyone hates on Vortex here because there are tons of the cheap scope /gun combos in use that occasionally fail doesn’t make Vortex bad. Tons of cheap scopes that come on combos like that fail. Gun/scope combos have always been pretty awful.

I guess this post has been everywhere. Might as well try to get it locked, maybe we can all agree to build the f'ing wall.

Full disclaimer- just graduated my CDL school and I have had a few drinks. About to start making more money than I've ever made in my life. Currently under the influence, probably gonna be more typos than usual and more redundancy than usual. I am a lightweight, I regularly don't drink. I apologize in advance.

I guess that post was pretty unfair to the AR community on the internet. Still, if you want to see a group of people hate an optic, ask about UTG on an AR forum. If you want to see a group of people love it, ask about UTG on an airgun forum. UTG has won at the world level in HFT on a customised Chinese air rifle, in competition with the best stuff in the world. Schmidt/Bender and nothing but German precision air rifles, etc. a good marksman with a Chinese air rifle and UTG scope beat everyone in his class.

At the end of the day it's the nut behind the trigger above all else. I believe it 100%. UTG might have subpar glass/image, milky even at moderate to long range. Might be the cheapest piece of Chinese garbage you ever used, but they hold zero and track most of the time. And they old up on spring powered rifles longer than most at 10-20x the price.

In regards to the Vortex brand, if you want my true feelings about it, read the whole thread. I just bought a Diamondback Tactical and I haven't even used it yet. But it lines up pretty darn close right out of the box when boresighting and I have a good feeling sbout it.

Now the part of your post I highlighted in red, that is what I want to speak on because I agree with it. I have never ever in 32 years of plinking and recreational shooting, ever had good luck with a bundled optic. Bushnell makes some good stuff and so does Savage. Their bundled optics with the 110 is garbage and destined to fail. It's just the truth.

The last ten years or my life I have spent in the Infantry. In my opinion, not even the Leupold MK IV is up to the task to be on a DMR. 4 issued to my platoon, 4 did not make it through a deployment without shifting and didn't even track bu the end of it all. So much for a DMR scope. If you can't do IMT and still shoot to the same POI, it won't work for us. So there is that.

I would bet 99.99999999% of the best scopes can't even handle being tossed into the backseat of a pickup on the regular. No matter the price.

But a bundled optic? I guarantee you the Crossfires bundled on rifles probably ain't even the same Crossfires sold in the store. They are a sticker on a scope, name recognition at best. Destined to fail. It cost more to put decent iron sights on the rifle for a reason.

That is why I take umbrage, personally, with the OP being so defensive of his scope after just 4 rounds.

What a rookie. You're not supposed to get drunk and post sh!+ that makes sense. You're supposed to get drunk and buy guns and scopes that you'll regret tomorrow morning. Get yourself squared away, soldier. You acting 8TF^.

Also, GO ARMY.