Does anyone know if the Mexican Eagle ranges into central texas/austin area?

I own property outside austin and saw what I think was a bald eagle - friend says it was probably a Mexican eagle - I have seen the Mexican eagles in south texas and this was not that -

The bird I saw had a huge wing span when it flew away - I am in Georgetown

We're in N.W. Lee county, 40 miles east of Austin. We have plenty of Caracara and a pair of Bald Eagles nest about 2 miles from our place.

I see caracara at my place in Lometa quite often and have seen others around the area. There is also bald eagles around here. One used to have a nest right off 29 by Buchanan dam until the wind took out the tree. I would see it driving out to mason. There were always people stopping to take pictures. I would say you could have easily seen either around here.

Yes Caracara have been reported into the northern parts of Texas in the past few years. I know for a fact they have been seen just NW of Brady since I saw them there myself. I heard rumor that they have even been seen as far as some of the states due north of Texas. Don't know if those are true just heard it.

Early December last year a friend and I were deer hunting in mason and came into our property after eating in town and saw a bald eagle. Very big birds that's the first one I've ever seen it was awesome. I really wanted to get naked and run around with .

They have been around here for at least 10 years, maybe more. Up where I throw my fish guts, and such on my place they run off the buzzards. Go to the dam at the lake( Granger Lake) you will see a bunch of em!

I’ve seen a lot of them not far south of Austin. I’m sure they could easily make it to Austin. I am almost positive I seen one in Gatesville one day while driving through.

I see them around Brady, aggressive creatures.

first oen I remember seeing was near Meridian over 20 years ago. Last time I was in 22 headed through Maridian from Whitney I say at least 10 between those 2 towns.

I have them all over me just SE of Austin and see them driving to work in Austin everyday.

Aren't Mexican Eagles and golden eagles the same thing?

No

Starting to see Ravens in Starr county, something you never heard or seen before.

Have any bald eagles been seen at Lake Granger?

Bald Eagles are along the Colorado River below Austin down to Bastrop.

They also are around Granger Lake, and the Burnet/Llano areas.

Caracaras are very much present in the grasslands east of I-35.

A Bald Eagle is twice the size of a vulture for reference.

The first time I saw Bald Eagles in Texas about 25 years ago, two had caught a wounded snow goose.

They tossed the snow goose back and forth in their talons like a beach ball. They are massive birds.

In flight, their wings make a straight flat line, while vultures have upward swept wings.

Congratulations on the sightings.

We have a bunch of them trashy things here.

Bald Eagles are being sighted on a regular basis in a few counties south of San Antonio. I saw a Bald Eagle 3 different occasions in Colorado County just north of Columbus. Also saw Caracara on the same ranch.

Why do you say that?

In Starr County, most likley they are Chihuahuan Ravens.

Common Ravens are much larger, about the size of a medium sized hawk.

They are among the most intelligent of birds and animals, and have shown the ability to learn to use tools to help obtain food.

They are one of my favorites.

Through mythological times, Ravens were considered the bird of war as they followed the troops marching into battle.

In reality, they figured out that battle meant dead meat laying on the field to feed on as they mostly eat carrion.

So they were putting their brains to work.

Had a bald eagle fly past me at eye level at lake Livingston a couple weeks ago. It was awesome.

Here on the coast, the Caracaras will attack a pelican that has just caught a fish until it drops the fish and steal it.

I see Caracaras on a regular basis here just a few miles northeast of Georgetown

I’ve seen Mexican eagles as far north as Hood County.

been seeing Caracara's for the past 15 years here in Blanco county.

Because I had seen them try to get some of my newborn Ibex at times. Luckly the mothers ran them off with a little help from me.

been seeing the mex bird around Austin for at least 26 yrs

We have seen them both along with a young Golden Eagle between South Bend And Eliasville.....

Picture of mexican eagle anyone.

I've seen the Mexican eagles in McLennan and Falls county. Odd, though. I saw a lot more 10-15 years ago than now for some reason. I've seen bald eagles nesting on the bluffs of the middle Bosque river, and saw one cross Hwy-7 in Robinson county about a month ago. He was huge, wing span wide as or wider than my truck. Very impressive bird.

Bald Eagle in Colorado County

Caracara in Goliad County



I used to see Golden Eagles annually in Jan-March and then in the early fall in Kendall County. Seen one down in La Salle County late in deer season one winter.

Golden Eagles actually are the bird on the Mexican flag.

caracaras are commonly referd to as Mx eagles around these parts...
colloquial name is qui-che...
hence the nane of Quihi Tx...
true Mx eagles are Golden eagle which range thru WTx as far E as Rocksprings, WTx and into Mx and South and N into the Rockies

Not very good pictures - second one you have to zoom on to get a better look - what do yall think?

First pic taken by my neighbor.

The second picture was taken on my pond dam - when the bird took off its wing span was huge - sure looked like a bald eagle to me

That second pic sure looks like a Bald Eagle to me tlk. About 2 years ago there were some talk that one had had been seen at he dam, everybody was saying it was caracaras. But looking at that pic and where you took it, hhmmm.....

That pond is about 10-15 minutes from Granger Lake -

Haven't seen any here in Frisco.....



But I hear they are DELICIOUS

I've seen a bunch of Caracara's in Johnson,Hood and Somervell counties the last couple years. I didn't know what the hell they were when I first saw one,but took a good pic of one on my phone and searched on the internet until I found out what it was.

tlk,
those both unquestionably are eagles. The bill/beak on the first one is distinctive. The second photo with the white head and tail is distinctive for an adult. Congratulations! Very neat, thank you for sharing.

Wish I had better pics but taken with my Iphone from a distance - after I saw him/her I googled it - come to find out if you have bald eagles nesting on your property the government can basically come in and take it over as a sanctuary

Yep tlk kinda worry about that. When the Whopping Cranes were here, they were on where I live and my neighbors place. All the farmers/ranchers were worried what THE MAN might do because they are such a endangered species. Everybody was sure glad when they moved on!!

No, that is not correct, even a little. You cannot harass them or destroy their nest. The one thing that is a bit heavy-handed is that it is not legal to possess their feathers. So if a feather falls out, and they will, leave it alone. They come down hard on that to prevent people from killing them to sell the feathers, which is a felony as it ought to be.

Bottom line - count yourself lucky and enjoy them. The black helicopters are not on their way.

I realize this is a different state but I read somewhere awhile back that if they nest on your property in Texas the state can protect that area? I am sure I may be wrong but I recall reading something to that effect
I dont think I will have a nest but just curious


http://www.echopress.com/news/3994026-you-asked-what-if-eagle-builds-nest-your-property

Stripping out the sensationalism, the key statements are what I just said above. "You cannot harass them or destroy their nest. The one thing that is a bit heavy-handed is that it is not legal to possess their feathers. So if a feather falls out, and they will, leave it alone."

vs. the article

"Both laws prohibit “take” and possession of eagles, their parts, nests and eggs. The Eagle Act also protects from “disturbance.”

This means no one can agitate an eagle to the degree that it causes injury, decrease in productivity or nest abandonment."

Continue using the property as you have been and you'll be fine. The eagles like what you are doing, so there should be no issues.

If you find a nest, do not go and cut it down, that will bring trouble, as it should.

The IRS is a way bigger thing to worry about than having eagles on your property.

If anything, you ought to be able to claim a conservation exemption on your property to minimize property taxes.

So, they may have some financial benefit to you.

Even if they are not nesting on the property, if they are using it periodically to feed or rest, you still may qualify for a conservation exemption.

You’re welcome and congratulations!

I’ve always called them Mexican buzzards.....not Mexican eagles....

jeffbird, you sound like you have great knowledge of the laws/rules. That is something else, not making anything of it, just wondering if you are in TPWD,USFW? The reason I am asking is a USFW biologist came out here(when the WC) were here he was saying the same thing. You are spot on what he said!!!! About the Whooping Cranes when they were here!

Vocation is a lawyer for 30 years. My avocation is conservation, especially bird conservation, which is where the "bird" comes from in my handle. I manage to combine the two on cases involving conservation issues, endangered species and water rights. Tough way to make money, but hopefully the effort makes the state I love a better place for all of us now and in the future. A bird sanctuary on the coast was named after me for all my volunteers hours and miles, which is one of the real highlights of my life. Thanks for the nice note Billy.

jeffbird, my hat is off to you SIR. When the WC were here, I didn't tell anybody that they were here, beside LL, you know who I am talking about. Just was so amazed!!! I was made a member of the ICF. It was a tongue in cheek to say the least to not tell anybody, but I knew!! Thanks jeffbird!! Sorry tlk to get off your topic!

I view the Caracara as opportunistic the same as a buzzard. Unlike a buzzard they will kill their food, but usually beat a buzzard to a fresh kill.
I shot a deer last season and as the deer lay where it stood moments after it was alive, I watched making sure it was down for good, a Caracara landed and started to help itself to a free meal until I chased it off.
They will also be the first to a gut pile.
I've seen them in the city feeding on roadkill in my neighborhood.
The bird that I think is pretty cool and colorful, is the "Green Jay" which is pretty common in south Texas, but has steadily moved northward. It's a tropical type bird from south America, and it looks the part with the light and dark greens, blues, and white and yellow feathers and an unmistakable raspy call.

I see a couple of caracara's at our lease in Bosque county near Hico. That's the farthest north I've seen them.

I moved from Bastrop to Eustace, TX (Cedar Creek Lake)late last year. One of the first things that I noticed were lots Caracara's in the area.

They were plentiful in Bastrop and Gonzales Counties, but I did not realize that they were this far North. (About an hour SE of Dallas) I have always liked watching them because they were totally unfamiliar to me when I moved to Texas in 2008.

Marc

Had quite a few caracara around the house in northern Van Zandt County from late summer last year to early winter this year. Only seeing a couple now. I was very surprised to see them there.

Don't like caracaras, they intimidate our native vultures, and are no friend of sheep and goat ranchers.

Actually it’s a regional term. People where you and I are at call caracara’s Mexican Eagles. People out west call golden eagles Mexican eagles. I have several friends in West Texas and New Mexico who call Golden’s Mexicans. Took me a while to figure out what they were talking about.

The bird on the Mexican flag is a Golden Eagle.

we have Caracaras in Kaufman County

I've seen caracara's in Mills county, particularly in winter. I don't know that it was injured, but one was on the ground, and rather than fly he took off running from me. He made it 300 yards to some brush at a pace that would give a roadrunner fits. He was legging it!

It is a regional term for sure. I grew up in S Texas with my family calling them Mexican Eagles, and I have been corrected numerous times by Mexican American folks later in life in S Texas that explained to me it was an insult to call them Mexican Eagles. Why I asked? Because they are smaller birds and they are mostly scavengers unlike the big proud Golden Eagle, so I was told. Well, alrighty then. The owners of the place I've hunted for over 20 yrs still get their feathers ruffled when someone calls Caracaras Mexican Eagles lol. We have tons of them. Sometimes hundreds when we're dumping a lot of guts, year round.

Where I grew up in Bee County and Live Oak the Caracara was called Mexican Eagle. I found out later on in life they were not the same. I saw my first Golden Eagle in Kendall County and up there they called them Mexican Eagle or Golden Eagle. Growing up we did not see a lot of Caracara's like there are today. They are far more numerous today than back then. They will catch more live things to eat than people realize. I have seen a group of 3-4 Caracara's take a Turkey Vulture down one evening in La Salle County. After they took it to the ground they proceeded to eat it. I have seen Caracara that was flying carrying a Horned Lizard, Coachwhip and a pair of them trying to eat a Texas Tortoise alive. I was able to scare them off the Texas Tortoise while it moved into thicker brush/grass.

That's cool. I've watched them a lot but only ever seen them eating carcasses & guts. I always figured they did some predation, I've just never seen it.

I thought the same thing till I was managing that ranch in La Salle.

Caracara are not the only brown and white rapter that will hunt or scavenge for food. I have seen more than one Bald Eagle and Golden eagle hitting road kill and or road kill. Shot a few prairie dogs one morning in Montana and they were soon eaten by a Golden Eagle. Another trip up there saw bald eagles on gut piles and the last 3 on a road killed mulie doe on the side of I90.

Never will forget looking down into a deep canyon with 2 bald eagles circling well below me, forgot hunting for a bit and enjoyed the view. the ranch I hunted in Montana very close to their headquaters what a large dead tree next to the road. I have seen 15 Bale Eagles roosting in that tree while in Montana in early November elk hunting. Fun times and exciting to know they are around Texas and getting more plentiful.

Might want to reconsider whether goats are worth committing a federal offense which is a felony. fwiw - there is no good time in the federal prison system either.


Statute: 16 U.S.C. 707(b) Felony Offense
Any person who
Knowingly
Takes any migratory bird
With intent to sell, offer to sell, barter, or offer to barter
Any migratory bird
Shall be guilty of a felony

Penalty:


Felony offenses shall be fined maximum of $250,000 and/or imprisoned for not more than two years for an individual or $100,000 for an organization.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/criminal-provisions-us-criminal-code-title-18-and-other-statutes

He has a right to protect his property, that's that. He's not selling or bartering anything, he's protecting his expensive azz goats and within his legal right to do so - if they're after his livestock.

Could you please provide a reference to the federal law that makes that a defense?

Nope. I could reference our State law though. Can you reference the federal law that prohibits him from protecting his livestock?

It is above.

Federal law pre-empts state law. The MBTA actually is an international treaty that was ratified, so it has even more precedence in the event of a conflict of laws.

Just in the off chance you and don are incorrect on your legal analysis you might want to use something other than a firearm as that might result in a sentencing enhancement of 1 - 25 years of additional sentence. There probably are some arguments to avoid enhancement as a gun crime. fwiw - The Fifth Circuit, our federal court of appeals, stacks the enhancement. So finish the first sentence, then start the enhancement time, again there is no good time in the federal system - tough on crime and all that.

Jeffbird. I have the right to protect my property. I don't care if it is from birds, animals or humans. Period.

That is what a man over between Welfare and Waring thought in the 90's when he was caught killing a hawk. $50,000 later and threat of some jail time made him change his attitude a bit.

Again he is not selling or bartering anything, that’s what you quoted above. No one is going to prison for shooting a caracara or any other animal (including raptors) that is trying to kill your newborn livestock (his lively hood). He can protect his livestock the same as he can his children. I love raptors BTW, have always been amazed by them..but if one of them tried to kill my 2-4 thousand dollar goat I’d shoot it in a heart beat. If the feds got involved then we can go to court, if it made it that far, but that will never happen here - California maybe. I do know for a fact that none of my Texas Game Warden friends would bat an eye at it. Those birds are protected, yes, until the moment that they attack you, your family, or your livestock. The same as people.

Jeff, I know you know your birds... sounds like something like this could easily be a court battle though if made public. If I was Don I’d do what I had to do and no one would know about it.

Skinner,
most of the MBTA prosecutions are unintentional “incidential” takes in the oilfield and there are more than a few of those. Just making a cursory pass through Westlaw revealed a Vietnamese shrimper shooting pelicans resulting in multiple felony indictments. He was appealing his bond which was set at $360,000, the estimated cost of restitution to be paid if convicted, on top of the penalty amount. That was in 2011 in Victoria, Texas. The court lowered it to $50,000 as a bond as that was the most the defendant could afford. That was just the most recent reported appeal, excluding the oilfield incidental take cases.
You and don really ought to reconsider, I am trying to help educate you and others on the law. It’s way easier to stay out of trouble than get mixed up in the nightmare of the court system, especially the criminal process.

And maybe I am a simpleton, but I try to follow the law whether someone is watching or not. Deciding whether to knowingly commit a felony based on the likelihood of getting caught means a person is a criminal, just one that has not been caught yet. I’d rather go to sleep at night broke with a clear conscience than knowingly commit a crime to have more money in the bank. Just my simplistic outlook on life.

Lol, yeh you can’t shoot pelicans or gulls for eating your shrimp. Shrimp are not his livestock. I’ve seen several people get in pretty big trouble here on the coast for killing gulls. Way different than protecting your livestock, atleast that is the way it was explained to me by a Texas Game Warden. I know I’m not gonna be the quinea pig in this court case.

You need a permit to kill depredating bald and golden eagles. I don't know about caracara. It's not illegal to kill them, just illegal without a permit. Here's a link: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI...23&rgn=div8

Oh man. If you think the average game warden knows all the state wildlife laws, much less all the federal wildlife laws, you simply haven’t met enough game wardens. And if you EVER think they’re “your bud” and will give you a pass when you break one of the laws they do know about, I know several people who could educate you if you’d listen.

I don’t agree at all with the federal laws concerning avian predators, but I’m not about to give a fishcop a reason to slap a fed felony on me.

What happens on my property stays here. It is not advertised. It is not discussed at the OST. I will protect my property like I said. After I do protect it there is no sign of whatever might have been done happened. I am a firm believer in following the S S and S rule. If somebody shoots something that is not supposed to to be shot just for the hell of it they should be cited. Same as if you go out in the street and shoot somebody just because you don't like the way they look. You should go to jail. But if that same person broke into your house and was hurting one of your children and you shot and killed him that would be a whole different story. And opinions of doing what is right or wrong differ a lot if you live out in the country and are trying to raise animals from those opinions from some who live on pavement.

Hey you gentlemen are forgetting what the final S in SSS stands for. You are boasting on a public forum about committing felonies. Consider what you write.

The hills have eyes and you have neighbors that do not like you...that is what got the man in trouble in the 90's.

Do you really believe you can shoot raptors for depredation, and do you always believe LEO just because they are LEO?

Sneaky,
did you quote the wrong post?
No to both questions.

[u][/u]
Sooooo......bears are protected in Texas.....if a rancher finds a bear attacking his cattle does he just have to stand there and watch? When the feds reintroduced wolves into Yellowstone we’re not the ranchers outside the park allowed to kill wolves attacking their livestock....how is this any different....

No kidding

If folks read the earlier post, Jeffbird does this stuff for a living. I am betting on his version being correct

I’ve met more than one fish cop who didn’t know the laws. It amazes me how anyone could believe anyone could know all the laws considering the volume of our state laws and the CFR.

Closest I ever got to being banned from this site was when I was arguing for personal property rights. But the fed laws carry outrageous penalties and they don’t play. No way I’m telegraphing anything on a public forum.

I will say that jeffbirds dig about “being a criminal whether or not you’re caught” falls on deaf ears to most who invest their lives into stock of any kind. But I know fishcops, and they don’t think like normal people. And the laws they enforce don’t givachit about what we’ve spent our lives trying to do.

Actually it’s a regional term. People where you and I are at call caracara’s Mexican Eagles also. People out west call golden eagles Mexican eagles. I have several friends in West Texas and New Mexico who call Golden’s Mexicans. Took me a while to figure out what they were talking about. [/quote]

It is a regional term for sure. I grew up in S Texas with my family calling them Mexican Eagles, and I have been corrected numerous times by Mexican American folks later in life in S Texas that explained to me it was an insult to call them Mexican Eagles. Why I asked? Because they are smaller birds and they are mostly scavengers unlike the big proud Golden Eagle, so I was told. Well, alrighty then. The owners of the place I've hunted for over 20 yrs still get their feathers ruffled when someone calls Caracaras Mexican Eagles lol. We have tons of them. Sometimes hundreds when we're dumping a lot of guts, year round. [/quote]
Where I grew up in Bee County and Live Oak the Caracara was called Mexican Eagle. I found out later on in life they were not the same. I saw my first Golden Eagle in Kendall County and up there they called them Mexican Eagle or Golden Eagle. Growing up we did not see a lot of Caracara's like there are today. They are far more numerous today than back then. They will catch more live things to eat than people realize. I have seen a group of 3-4 Caracara's take a Turkey Vulture down one evening in La Salle County. After they took it to the ground they proceeded to eat it. I have seen Caracara that was flying carrying a Horned Lizard, Coachwhip and a pair of them trying to eat a Texas Tortoise alive. I was able to scare them off the Texas Tortoise while it moved into thicker brush/grass. [/quote]

Funny you mention they took down and ate a turkey vulture. Just 2 days ago I saw a couple attacking a buzzard. I thought they were just harassing it.

I’ve taken pictures a few years ago of a juvenile bald eagle as well as one of the parents in Winnsboro behind my sisters house . There is a railroad pool at the edge if the city limits that’s like a small lake and they use to hang out around that lake . Juvenilez are large like the adults but they are all brown in color until they mature out which takes a couple years , then they get their white hood and bigger yellow beak . They definitely are bigger than any hawk or buzzurd in Texas . The only thing bigger is an Osprey Eagle and the California Condors .

I live within 3 miles from a bluff that was listed on birding sites as one of the best eagle viewing spots in Texas. In the winter about 75 bald and golden eagles were nesting there. Many still do and we see eagles every year on the ranch here.

I have at least one bald eagle that shows up at my gut pile each year after big hunts. Once I was driving through the ranch with a hunter and his wife and was talking about the eagles and 30 minutes or so later a big golden flew up (20 yards away) and barely made it over my interior high fence into a deep draw. He had been eating a turkey and was almost too heavy to fly.

Yes, I did. I believe you know what you’re talking about. I recall your vocation and avocation. I also have a fair idea of how migratory bird laws work. There isn’t much flexibility.