Forums46
Topics538,717
Posts9,740,413
Members87,103
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7098760
03/02/18 04:37 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
|
Taking Requests
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609 |
Should one clean the barrel between groups
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: SapperTitan]
#7098792
03/02/18 05:06 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,236
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,236 |
Should one clean the barrel between groups Not a smart one.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7098904
03/02/18 06:26 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,729
BigPig
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,729 |
These are the responses that I expected, and I agree 100% that it may be possible when the stars align, the earth stops spinning, and gravity ceases to exist. Here is why I ask...
Wade Dews, REALTOR ® Rendon Realty, LLC Frontline Real Estate Team www.RendonRealty.comWadeDews@gmail.com 214-356-2410 Up to 1% for closing costs for First Responders & Veterans Proudly partnered with Assist The Officer Foundation https://atodallas.org/
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7098910
03/02/18 06:29 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,729
BigPig
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,729 |
Now it doesn’t outright say he held 1/4 MOA, but it does imply that he did. Aim small miss small is what I think they were trying to say, but who knows, it’s FB and everything is true in FB
Wade Dews, REALTOR ® Rendon Realty, LLC Frontline Real Estate Team www.RendonRealty.comWadeDews@gmail.com 214-356-2410 Up to 1% for closing costs for First Responders & Veterans Proudly partnered with Assist The Officer Foundation https://atodallas.org/
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099253
03/02/18 11:05 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges. A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned. https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7099269
03/02/18 11:32 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,729
BigPig
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,729 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges. A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned. https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/ That’s what my question was. Could YOU And technically 1/4 MOA at 1000 would be 2.6175 inches, but we will call it 2.5inches for simplicity.
Wade Dews, REALTOR ® Rendon Realty, LLC Frontline Real Estate Team www.RendonRealty.comWadeDews@gmail.com 214-356-2410 Up to 1% for closing costs for First Responders & Veterans Proudly partnered with Assist The Officer Foundation https://atodallas.org/
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7099287
03/02/18 11:55 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,426
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,426 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges. A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned. https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/ To put a finer point on it, the rifle should be the same regardless of distance, but ammo definitely is not, and of course the wind really is the huge variable.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099294
03/03/18 12:03 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,224
Grizz
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,224 |
I could maintain 1/4 minute of barn to 1,000 yards with no problem, possibly 1/8.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7099490
03/03/18 03:29 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,236
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,236 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.
Well, that is completely untrue. Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099497
03/03/18 03:33 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,236
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,236 |
That’s what my question was. Could YOU
Yes, I can shoot the rifle that tight. I cannot judge the wind that tight, and I relly don't want to put the time in to build ammo that will do it beyond 500. Judd and I, and Chad and I discussed it today. Lots of extra work will come into play, and I just don't want to go through the trouble.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: J.G.]
#7099540
03/03/18 04:25 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.
Well, that is completely untrue. Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up. You’re not understanding the point. You teach shooting, this is a basic concept.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099546
03/03/18 04:29 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges. A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned. https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/ That’s what my question was. Could YOU And technically 1/4 MOA at 1000 would be 2.6175 inches, but we will call it 2.5inches for simplicity. No one ever could keep the same group unless you intentionally sandbagged your 100 yard group, and tailored loads to each distance.. It’s a statistical and logical improbability. Even with a perfect .00000000 moa weapon; it’s always going to open up at farther ranges.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7099549
03/03/18 04:31 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,199
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,199 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.
Well, that is completely untrue. Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up. You’re not understanding the point. O really... Please expand on this point please.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099552
03/03/18 04:33 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
Read the link.
Why is something so easy escaping your grasp? A 1/4 moa gun is still 1/4 moa at 3000 yards even if the group opens up.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7099553
03/03/18 04:36 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528 |
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.
Well, that is completely untrue. Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up. You’re not understanding the point. You teach shooting, this is a basic concept. Basic concepts are one thing. Real world performance is another. You're way out in the weeds.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099559
03/03/18 04:39 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
This isn’t about “real world” performance. This is a fact (a rather basic one). I’m not even debating other factors. They don’t matter.
A shooter would still have a 1/4 moa rifle at 4 miles no matter what he did wrong. He may have a 20 foot group, but it’s still 1/4 moa.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099561
03/03/18 04:41 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,199
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,199 |
I am not arguing with an idiot tonight. I got chit to do tomorrow.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099563
03/03/18 04:43 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
I give up. It’s a rather simple concept. Apparently the NSSF are idiots too.....
If I have 1/4 moa rifle; it’s still 1/4 moa at 1000 yards shooting about 2.6 inches. What defines 1/4 moa changes as distance changes.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099565
03/03/18 04:49 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528 |
You are reading things into what I assume is NSSF's definition of MOA. What JG has tried to explain to you is fact---just because a rifle is shooting MOA at 100 does not mean it will be shooting MOA at 1000. There are reasons for this, and they have EVERYTHING to do with real world performance. You are already in a hole. Stop digging, put the shovel down, and listen.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099567
03/03/18 04:51 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,199
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,199 |
Show me this 1/4 MOA rifle. We get the concept sherlock holmes.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: BigPig]
#7099568
03/03/18 04:54 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,692
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,692 |
Tenyearsgone hasn’t said anything that’s incorrect. Y’all just ain’t pickin’ up what he’s puttin’ down.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: Sneaky]
#7099570
03/03/18 04:55 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
|
Taking Requests
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609 |
Tenyearsgone hasn’t said anything that’s incorrect. Y’all just ain’t pickin’ up what he’s puttin’ down. we aren’t on his level
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: RiverRider]
#7099580
03/03/18 05:17 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
You are reading things into what I assume is NSSF's definition of MOA. What JG has tried to explain to you is fact---just because a rifle is shooting MOA at 100 does not mean it will be shooting MOA at 1000. There are reasons for this, and they have EVERYTHING to do with real world performance. You are already in a hole. Stop digging, put the shovel down, and listen. It’s not just their opinion. It’s a scientific fact acknowledged by everyone who understands. His opinion doesn’t matter and is illogical. Frankly, I’m shocked such a basic concept eludes him. This is about a rifle’s easily achievable capability, not someone’s ability miraculously changing at long range. I was pointing out OP’s misnomer of a question in an attempt to educate him.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: Bee'z]
#7099581
03/03/18 05:20 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
Show me this 1/4 MOA rifle. We get the concept sherlock holmes. I didn’t measure that particular group, but I just posted one in the ammo section that probably shot 1/4 moa today. That’s the innaccurate load too. My 1/4 moa rifles have been posted and discussed before.
|
|
|
Re: 1/4 MOA
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7099582
03/03/18 05:23 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
|
Taking Requests
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609 |
You are reading things into what I assume is NSSF's definition of MOA. What JG has tried to explain to you is fact---just because a rifle is shooting MOA at 100 does not mean it will be shooting MOA at 1000. There are reasons for this, and they have EVERYTHING to do with real world performance. You are already in a hole. Stop digging, put the shovel down, and listen. It’s not just their opinion. It’s a scientific fact acknowledged by everyone who understands. This is about a rifle’s easily achievable capability, not someone’s ability miraculously changing at long range. I was pointing out OP’s misnomer of a question in an attempt to educate him. what a rifle chambered in a slow bullet. It may shoot 1/4 MOA at 100 but the bullet becomes too slow and unstable at further distances and will be nowhere close to 1/4 MOA. A gun is only as good as its ammo and ammo is only as good as the gun and it takes both being good to be consistent from 100-1000 yards.
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|