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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7061518
02/01/18 02:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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I find it interesting, I've always not liked the 22-250 (as much, that is) because of the slow barrel twist rates since you couldn't shoot the heavier 22 cal bullets, like even the 68/69 grain or 75/77 grain. I always thought the round was handicapped because of this reason. I have always thought a 22-250 would be ideal with an 8" or 7" twist barrel. Others think going to a faster twist is a crazy idea. I find that interesting. It's a near perfect round for loading the heavy bullets. The cartridge is short enough to fit and feed out of any standard 308 magazine, even when seating the 80-90 grain bullets out long. There's no feeding issues with magazine room to deal with. The only lacking was the barrel twist. Sure a 55 grain is fast and flat, and I'm sure will kill a yote dead. But beyond 200-300 yards, it will lose too much speed and have an insane amount of wind drift. Stepping up to the heavier bullets will greatly improve the performance of the round for longer shots, and still work perfectly on varmints, and even deer. Just my I get a kick out of the similar train of thought that the predator hunters have. Its all about how flat something is to 400yds. Yet ironically their super duper fast 55-87gr 6mm (243 &6 creed) loads only typically have 4" less drop max than my 105 loads and in a 10mph wind they get over a foot more drift. I guess if you don't hunt in the big open like I do where the wind always blows then they are great but not for me.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061538
02/01/18 02:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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RiverRider
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These older rounds are the way they are because of the era in which they originated. Smokeless powder technology helped start the quest for higher velocities and that was the focus in those days.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061543
02/01/18 02:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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And, to this day guys want to shoot prairie dogs with something that blows them to smithereens, not poke a hole in em.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: RiverRider]
#7061583
02/01/18 03:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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And, to this day guys want to shoot prairie dogs with something that blows them to smithereens, not poke a hole in em.
If only I could show you the footage I made of prairie dogs getting hit with a 75 gr A-Max. It does not disappoint! When I ran the 55's there were plenty of times I tried far shots, splash one, make a correction, and the next round goes somewhere else. The wind was eating it up. I figured out the distance limitations of the 55's, and just quit trying the far shots. To date, the farthest hit I've made on a prarie dog is 710 yards, and that was with the 75's.
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: RiverRider]
#7061617
02/01/18 03:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 868
Txhillbilly
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And, to this day guys want to shoot prairie dogs with something that blows them to smithereens, not poke a hole in em. Just for giggle's,I took my heavy barreled 25-06 with me on our last prairie dog hunt. There wasn't much fur left when they got hit with a 100 gr Sierra Match King. Nothing but red mist in the air!
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061693
02/01/18 04:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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I would imagine there are some match bullets that would work well for obliteration. I've never experimented with them. What I do know is what I saw a 140-grain 7mm Sierra do to a jackrabbit...no mist or explosion, but about 20 yards of low-level flight and the most curious anatomical revision I've ever witnessed.
I don't think there will ever be a time when 1:8 .22-250s become common, but we all know the manufacturers want to tap markets any way they can. Fast twist. 22 centerfires will become more common over time, but "standard" twist. 22-250s won't go away anytime soon.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061706
02/01/18 04:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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RiverRider
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Should have qualified that. I meant when new .22 centerfire cartridges come along. What is the offered twist rate for new rifles in .22 Nosler?
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061737
02/01/18 05:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,449
aggiehunter03
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Not to derail the OP thread but what reason would there ever be to put a slow twist barrel on a gun if you have the choice not to? My 8 twist 22-250 shoots 77s great and shoots 52 Bergers as good as my 14" twist Savage did. Assuming some day I decided to shoot small bullets out of it what am I giving up with an 8 vs a 12 or 14?
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061742
02/01/18 05:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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If you went to a light weight varmint bullet, like a 40 grain V-max or SP, the fast twist can vaporize the bullet in flight. Basically, spin the bullet so fast that the jacket comes apart and destroys the bullet in flight.
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: RiverRider]
#7061786
02/01/18 06:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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And, to this day guys want to shoot prairie dogs with something that blows them to smithereens, not poke a hole in em. 80gr Berger vld do pretty good damage on varmints going 3124fps. These two were hit at 282yds. Ones head was almost removed from the body the other had a huge exit with a lot of spray as noticed in the pic.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061796
02/01/18 06:17 PM
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duckhunter175
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Thread isn’t derailed at all. Great discussion!!
New option on the table would be a 7.5 Muller or 7.7 bartlein- the 7 twist sold out.
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061799
02/01/18 06:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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If you have any wish to try 90's go 7.5 but I'd run it over the stability calculator to make sure the sg is decent. That being said 80's are really tough to beat.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061804
02/01/18 06:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Thread isn’t derailed at all. Great discussion!!
New option on the table would be a 7.5 Muller or 7.7 bartlein- the 7 twist sold out. 1:7.7 Bartlein is my vote. What I just bought for a .223 A.I. but I have no intention of ever running anything but 80 gr ELD-M
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7061988
02/01/18 08:45 PM
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aggiehunter03
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If you went to a light weight varmint bullet, like a 40 grain V-max or SP, the fast twist can vaporize the bullet in flight. Basically, spin the bullet so fast that the jacket comes apart and destroys the bullet in flight. Ok that makes sense. Never going to shoot itty bitty ones so 8 twist for me.
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7061990
02/01/18 08:46 PM
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aggiehunter03
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What does the 22-250 AI gain over the standard 22-250?
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7062003
02/01/18 08:58 PM
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ChadTRG42
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I found a youtube video of one. Poster says its a 223 AI with a 7 twist and 52 grain Speer HP. You can see the puff of smoke looking debris about 15-20 feet in front of the muzzle, which is the bullet coming apart.
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: aggiehunter03]
#7062031
02/01/18 09:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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What does the 22-250 AI gain over the standard 22-250? 220swift speeds basically.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: dee]
#7062056
02/01/18 09:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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What does the 22-250 AI gain over the standard 22-250? 220swift speeds basically. Yup. Mo fasta!
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: aggiehunter03]
#7062300
02/02/18 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,200
Korean Redneck
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Not to derail the OP thread but what reason would there ever be to put a slow twist barrel on a gun if you have the choice not to? My 8 twist 22-250 shoots 77s great and shoots 52 Bergers as good as my 14" twist Savage did. Assuming some day I decided to shoot small bullets out of it what am I giving up with an 8 vs a 12 or 14? I had a standard savage model 12 varmint in 22-250 and really caught the long range rifle bug with it. Tried all sort of ammo over years to teach myself how to shoot. Whatever twist it was, the 26" varmint factory barrel just did poorly with any bullet about 60ish gr or more and got worse as it got heavier. Finally settled on a 52gr a max from an outfit called hsm. On a calm wind day, I could legitimately due sub moa all day at 300yds. The 600 yard 12" steel, the furthest thing I have access to, was just too difficult. Probably like 4-7 out of 10. Obviously I'm not too great a shooter but could shoot moa at 300 but not close at 600. Also, this is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a while. Read the whole thing and it's re-igniting desires to have a 22-250 again but a much fast twisted one.
Last edited by Korean Redneck; 02/02/18 12:47 AM.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: J.G.]
#7062324
02/02/18 01:01 AM
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aggiehunter03
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What does the 22-250 AI gain over the standard 22-250? 220swift speeds basically. Yup. Mo fasta! I may be showing my ignorance but I think this can be accomplished pretty reasonably by a gunsmith with the factory Tikka I have?
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: aggiehunter03]
#7062343
02/02/18 01:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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What does the 22-250 AI gain over the standard 22-250? 220swift speeds basically. Yup. Mo fasta! I may be showing my ignorance but I think this can be accomplished pretty reasonably by a gunsmith with the factory Tikka I have? You can setback a factory 22-250 to an ai but it'll require shortening the barrel just a touch. Like thread or two.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7062372
02/02/18 01:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
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aggiehunter03
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I want to cut it to 18-20” anyway so great. Any idea what this costs?
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: duckhunter175]
#7062377
02/02/18 01:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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No sir. I've never had it done. I inquired one gunsmith about it and he refused to setback to ai on a gun that was shooting really good.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: aggiehunter03]
#7062399
02/02/18 01:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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I want to cut it to 18-20” anyway so great. Any idea what this costs? Re-chamber and thread, I'm aware of a guy that's $300-ish. Machined to .0005"
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Re: VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate
[Re: J.G.]
#7062403
02/02/18 01:44 AM
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aggiehunter03
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I want to cut it to 18-20” anyway so great. Any idea what this costs? Re-chamber and thread, I'm aware of a guy that's $300-ish. Machined to .0005" Then dies and fire form my brass? I’m thinking there’s no good reason I shouldn’t do this.
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