The whole custom vs semi is dumb,

So all the custom rifles are custom because they have semi- custom actions? Aka remington cloned and twicked actions?

I have never understood the whole semi-custom thing. To me, if you are tearing down a rifle and having it rebuilt exactly to your specs, then it is a custom. Doesn't matter what action is being used. Guess I am just old school.

Personally I don't call it a full custom unless I built the action. Everything else I do is semi-custom. But, I'm hardcore like that. The words "custom" and "gunmaker" are thrown around too much.

Tacops is a $5k+ rifle build on a Remington action with 1/4 MOA accuracy.

The whole custom/semi-custom discussion comes up from time to time on here. If like TDK said he builds the whole gun for a customer including action that no doubt a full custom.

Screw a barrel and bed the factory stock or an aftermarket stock on a rifle has no where near the work involved and "customization" as a custom like TDK does.

Good Semi custom jobs IMO have a smoother action that is square to the barrel, the action worked over so it is smooth and locking lugs mate in their recesses with full lug contact. The barrel is concentric and mated to the receiver as perfectly as possible for a full concentric mating.

I have one that is as custom as I will ever own, it is a mishmash of parts to an extent that I wish I could find and talk to the builder. The action is a combination of a Mauser and 1903 that has a section in the middle removed so it is the right length for a 44Mag. It has a 16.25 inch McGowen barrel with Williams sights and full length walnut stock and uses Remington 788 44Mag magazines. Serial number on that rifle is R-001. it wasn't built for me but I figure the action was piece parted together from action parts the Smith had from other guns in the past, at one time actions fro long Weatherby and H&H cartridges were not plentiful and they would take two Springfield or Mauser actions to make one action with the length to handle the longer cartridges figure mine was made from a couple of those left over action pieces. Accuracy wise it shoots about 1.5MOA which is fine for a 44mag and the ranges I use it at.

I'm not saying no. But do you know how many rifles I have shot that I would say are truly 1/4 moa accurate? I could count them on one hand. 1/4 moa is a rarity, period. Yes, 1/2 and 1/3 moa is pretty achievable. But 1/4 moa is an inaccurate guarantee for ALL rifles from a smith. There's WAY too many variables of parts and pieces that a smith will rely on. Some barrels do offer crazy accuracy, but to put a 1/4 moa, sorry, I'm not buying it.

I just looked at their site, and they build their rifles on a trued factory Rem 700 action. It's not even a full custom, it's a semi-custom. No way 1/4 moa! The tolerances in the Rem 700 action are not tight enough to allow it!

Truly, how important is the action? Once the bullet is in the chamber my money is on the ammo the barrel and human error.

Truly, how important is the action? Once the bullet is in the chamber my money is on the ammo the barrel and human error.

Here's my thought on factory vs semi-custom vs full custom. Now, this is all with tuned ammo, or ammo dialed into the rifle. And how I measure accuracy is not one 3 shot group. It is multiple groups at various ranges and seeing the consistency over all these groups.

Factory rifles can be made to shoot well. Running tuned ammo, the rifle will gain consistency from tight tolerances of the ammo. This will certainly improve the accuracy of a factory rifle. But the weak link is often the lack of a bedded action, the barrel not free floated, mass produced barrels, and heavy triggers. Most of the rifles I complete a load work up on are factory rifles, that may have had a few things modified. I have done many of them. Most will shoot about 3/4 to 1 moa fairly easily. Some will shoot 1/2 moa, but not generally. The main problem I see with factory rifles are fliers. Often times there will be some rounds that just don't go where you told it to.

Semi-custom rifles will be a step above the factory rifles. Replacing the barrel on a factory rifle should increase the consistency and improve the accuracy. Generally you can free float the barrel and work on the trigger some. These will always improve your results. But, the action is still a factory action will loose tolerances in the action. I built my PBR (parts build rifle) in Rem 700 and screwed a big fat 308 Win barrel on a $360 factory Rem 700 ADL. I put it in my old Manners T3 stock (previously bedded) with a pic rail and Nightforce scope on it. It shoots about 1/2 moa consistently. The weal link in that rifle is the factory action and the previous bedding (for a different Surgeon action). It shoots good, but does not shoot near as good as my full custom Surgeon.

A full custom build to me is a custom action (Surgeon, Defiance, Big Horn, Stiller, etc) with a custom barrel and the stock bedded and fit to the action. The stock needs to be very firm (not flimsy like some of the Hogue rubber stocks are) with proper bedding and barrel free floating. I have a Surgeon 591 action in a Rock Solid Stock with a big Bartlein barrel at 23" in 6.5x47L. That set up is the most accurate rifle I own. It's one hole at 100 yards, and shoots very tight at distance. It is a heavy rifle, about 14-16 lbs. It's a very shootable rifle and easy to control.

But, IMO, the many factory rifles I have played with shoot decent. But they will not shoot near as good as a custom can.

And a big factor in accuracy is how thick the barrel is. You can not take a featherweight or sporter weight barrel chambered in a magnum round with 80+ grains of powder and expect it to be a target rifle and maintain consistency for 20 shots. It just won't do it. The barrel will heat up and start to walk around.

Tacops is a $5k+ rifle build on a Remington action with 1/4 MOA accuracy.

To rc and kmon1 - if you're looking for true anal type accuracy your looking at lock up times, pin fall, action timing, [censored] on close, spring weights on firing pins, trigger engagement...there is a whole lot more to the accuracy game than making sure lugs and bolt/barrel/action mating. I learn something new it seems every week on that. I wish I knew more about all that stuff I listed above.

Truly, how important is the action? Once the bullet is in the chamber my money is on the ammo the barrel and human error.

Trying to trim that last thirty or forty thousandths of an inch off your groups gets expensive and tricky, doesn't it?

I have a 788 in .222 that will average an honest 0.4" for five shots, and maybe even better. I think one like it can be had for $400 to $500. All I want is a 0.3" improvement, but I sure can't afford it. I'll just shoot it like it is.

Trying to trim that last thirty or forty thousandths of an inch off your groups gets expensive and tricky, doesn't it?

I have a 788 in .222 that will average an honest 0.4" for five shots, and maybe even better. I think one like it can be had for $400 to $500. All I want is a 0.3" improvement, but I sure can't afford it. I'll just shoot it like it is.

I might could be talked out of a Canjar trigger. Wonder if that would help

Sounds intriguing. I might wanna explore the idea.