It just might depend a little on local conditions.

Is a high shoulder shot "unethical" if the deer is next to a boundary fence or deep canyon?

How about if it's a step away from thick south Texas brush?

You may have never seen a deer run more that 50-75 yards, but that doesn't mean they can't.

Just last week I shot a doe (139gr Hornady, 280Rem, 105yrds).. She was in one of the few clearings on our place so, l thought I'd do the double lung shot to minimize meat damage. Watched her run 125 yards before she entered the brush. Found a couple of spots of blood where she stood at the shot. Zero blood after that. After about 1.5 hours of stumbling through thorns, I was lucky to find her. She apparently made a 90 degree turn after entering the brush. After dragging her out and gutting her (heart and lungs were mush}, I spent some quality time pulling thorns out of my carcass, and attending to my wounds. I think I left a better blood trail than she did!

Think I'll stick with my "unethical" high shoulder shots. I'd rather lose a little shoulder meat than lose the whole deer. YMMV around Snyder where conditions are probably different.

I still eat the shoulders also...just takes a little cleaning and trimming to get around the wound channel. I have a processor now that will cut them into steaks on the saw for me. I have eaten shoulder steaks since the 80's and agree that the shoulder is the one of the best tasting parts of a deer. I had shoulder steaks night before last. I do not like a deer to run as IMO it starts to stress and that effects the taste and quality of the venison.

+1. Tremendous difference in taste.

I'm sold on placing the bullet straight up the leg, center chest. The animal just drops. And the exit channel doesn't seem to claim much meat, particularly when the animal is slightly quartering.

I will say, I run into a lot of hunters that don't appreciate the fact a hog's heart sits lower and forward than a deer. Of the three deer dropped via center chest shots this season, not one heart was recovered intact.

Let me clarify my "unethical" comment.

Im not judging others, i just dont personally feel right intentionally destroying meat.

I feel as though when im taking the life of an animal it is my responsibility to salvage as much edible meat as possible and make as clean of a kill as possible.

Aiming right behind the shoulder gives biggest margin of error. Yeah we occaisionally hit a shoulder. Its gonna happen. But i just cant make myself do it intentionally.

I think its is interesting that many comment they will shoot a doe behind the shoulder, but a buck in the high shoulder. Do they not both deserve the same level of respect? Are we trying to salvage more meat on the doe and then making sure we get our horns on the buck?

I have seen shoulder shot deer with gaping holes that lived for 30+ mins and had to be put down with a finishing shot.

Iust because they drop right there, doesnt mean they are dead instantly.

Lung shot deer are dead within seconds. They can cover a lot of ground in seconds, but are still dead within seconds.

One of the best shots you can take with 243 or bigger

My is know what you and your rifle, bow, or pistol can do and take out the guess work. Things can happen that go wrong but knowing limitations and abilities is key to humane kills. I won't take head shots that often anymore but neck shots have always been my go to when hunting with my rifles. If I can't hit 3 in a beer can between 25 and 225 yards I don't use that rifle.

This is one of many threads that few will ever agree on. I wont try to say one way is better than another but I will state what i do and why. Also understand that I eat what I kill but I am a Trophy hunter that puts tremendous time, effort and money into hunting and when I pull the trigger my goal is to kill EVERY TIME and quickly. IF IF IF IF IF you can put a decently constructed bullet specifically where you want to then high shoulder is devastating no doubt. I cannot shoot that precisely every time so I want the most margin for error and still be deadly. The high shoulder does not allow much margin for error if you accidentally shoot high or high left or high right or even to some degree left or right. I shoot in the shoulder but halfway up and down where I consider the vitals are. I want equidistant margin for error in every direction and especially the up and down part. If I am extra worried about hitting where I am aiming I will ease back just a little towards the crease behind the leg just to allow a little more margin for error. I havent killed near as many deer as some of yall but when I put a 3006 165 partition anywhere in the MIDDLE(not high) of the shoulder they drop in tracks everytime. I dont know how to do those pictures with the X but my spot is almost just like STX and tlk except maybe two inches lower.
edit. Actually I went back and looked at STx pictures and I may just be an inch lower than his marks. I wouldnt call his marks high shoulder but they seem very close to middle shoulder so maybe some of this debate is just terminology. Some of the other examples where the "high shoulder" shot should be is many inches higher than I think would allow for good margin of error.

This is still, by far, my favorite deer ever posted on this forum. Absolutely beautiful.

I'm more of a base of the neck shooter or high shoulder shooter depending on angle. Hard angles like this pic STX posted, if I was squeezing the trigger on this angle, I'd move the crosshairs about 3" to the left. Getting neck bone and the opposing shoulder.

This is where I shoot, usually DRT, some times a few steps, never more than 20 feet.

I like driving up to um...straight up the leg, center mass!

I dont know about the video but the cover pic crosshairs is close for me but just a little lower. Basically what Longhunt said, straight up leg, center mass. Basically it would be in between what I would call a high shoulder and a lower heart shot.

I enjoy the exercise, suspense, and experience that comes with searching for a deer after a lethal hit. Nothing pleases me more than helping a fellow hunter find his/her deer so I can share in their initial excitement.

Roughly, maybe a little far forward for your preference?

Why wouldn't you just go for a neck shot? I've never seen a neck shot deer run.

I used to like the neck shot, but as I get older I just go for the heart shot on a broadside facing deer. If you miss the heart, you'll hit the lungs

Ethics are always a personal choice. There's no perfect answer; good knowledgeable hunters must make that call, for themselves, for the animal, in the time, location, weather, etc, that fits. It's the totality of the circumstances.... again, no one right answer

ever step that animal takes after a bullet impact increases it’s loss ratio,

Recovery is the ultimate goal

Tlew, if you can put it there than its golden(and you know it.) But, yes, my issue is that a little further back just gives a little more margin for error. And ANYTIME you shoot for heavy bone you need to have at least a decently constructed bullet if not well constructed.
Do alot of your deer have that coloration on forehead?

I have, and never stopped.

I use 115 gr VLD Berger and have no issues on any thing including hogs, WT, Pronghorn, mule deer, Aoudad, and elk.

I take high shoulder or neck shoulder crease 99% of the time.

You quoted me so I guess your reply had something to do with bullet construction. Im old school and dont keep up with new bullet stuff and I consider you the "gear guru" on here so im trying to learn. I dont know vld so I did quick google. It seems it "blows up" like I assume a poorly constructed bullet would do BUT it does so after its penetrated enough to do so inside which would be a great concept if it works(I assume it does.) Am I basically correct on what its designed for? Trying to learn here. I exclusively shoot 3006 165 partitions that a friend handloads and it shoots 1 MOA and I dont shoot over 250ish so talk me out of my setup.

Yep, I actually wanted about 1.5" lower and back but I wasn't going to complain. I had the nerves from this deer standing about 15 yards from me staring at me for at least 10 minutes. This shot was a 30-06 180gr Nosler partition. Hit the shoulder and radiated bone or bullet out the neck. Nothing that resembled lungs was left during cleaning.

The coloration appears a little on some genes out there, but not with this much surface area. Will be a unique mount for sure

VLD is just a cup and core bullet, really nothing to crazy.

I've gone full circle on bullets from being a cup and core bullet guy, to an a-frame/partition, to all copper, to bonded to now accuracy 1st, construction second. I feel bullets are designed for certain impact speeds. A good Example is push a cup and core bullet too fast at impact and jacket will separate from core before significant penetration and push Partition or all cooper to slow and get unreliable expansion. Every gun I own I think I use a different bullet construction in. Infact I use partitions in my 30-06 also, but accubonds in my 270, in 22-250 all cooper TTSX, Creedmoor a crimped jacketed cup and core, 257 wby 115gr cup and core (but 100gr partition is my second favorite,)

With all this said I think for the most part it takes extremes at both ends for failures to consistently happen with most modern bullets. Basically the partition guy is right and so is the cup and core guy. In the end it's about getting to spot of impact and then preceding to the objective of spine, lungs, opposite shoulder blade etc. They all work as long as you stay in the impact velocities they where designed for.

I think for your caliber, your shot distance and placement you would be hard placed to top the partition. it's designed for those exact parameters, but a bonded bullet like accubond or even heavy cup and core is doing to perform to similar results. If that makes sense. Essentially I wouldn't attempt to talk you out of partition for your parameters. You objective is to get to spine. It checks that box.

In over 50 years of deer hunting, I’ve lost my share. For the last 40 years I’ve generally hunted my own land South of Bowie. Thickly wooded would be an understatement.

30-06 , generally a 150 grain bullet at less than 100 yards. Do my own loads for the last 40 or so years.

A couple of years ago, I failed to recover 3 bucks. That sucks.

I have found deer that went quite a ways with no heart or lung left.

Hit a cow elk in New Mexico that went a long way with very few vital organs left.

I’m starting to believe in the high shoulder shot but it’s also not a sure thing.

Any experience with the ELD-X? How does it compare to the VLD Berger?

Nothing wastes more meat than a shot that kills a deer that you can't find.