Over scoped?? Are you suggesting iron sights?? A 1X maybe?? A scope provides the ability to shoot at a target at various distances with a clear image of the exact point of impact. Who is to say that a 4X is better than a 4X12? There are hunters out there who NEED more magnification because of aging eyes. I completely disagree that the MAJORITY of hunters are over scoped. If anything, a great number of them could use more (not less) magnification. Jack O'Conner thought that the 4X was plenty good enough for ANY shooter. This was in the '60's. If that is correct, why do todays shooters opt for more magnification?? To look cool or impress their buddies?? I think not, they use the big variable scopes because they work!

I will say this...Shot placement is highly relative to shooter and animal orientation and shot placement is only 1/3 of the program, trajectory through the body and amount of penetration being the other two significant aspects of the program. Contrary to the 2D targets favored for practice, animals are not 2D and often what are perceived as well placed shots are not.

From what I am reading, we are all going with a caliber that is larger. We have simply reached a point for which we don't think people need to go any higher. So we are all making up for something by going with larger calibers and that is going to be so that they do more of what we need them to do. Be that .300 Blk, 6.8 spc, 6.5 Grendel, 30-30, or whatever.

All I've ever hunted deer with is my 270 win with 130 grain. I've never had a problem, but I don't shoot long distances. So far it's done well where I hunt in East Texas, I don't have enough open space to hunt long distance. But even then, this bullet shoots very flat and has plenty of punch at the distances I shoot. I've always built blinds that had solid gun rests, so I've never really had a problem hitting spots. I made two trips to Wyoming to hunt mule deer, and my 270 laid them down easily. My cheapo $60 scope seems to do just fine.

the kids all started with 30.06 150gr and now I like my 270 with 130gr and my daughter shoots a 100gr .243 round. She's way more steady than I am now.

I read all of the various posts online espousing the latest 'super' magnum. Then I remember that my Uncles in Idaho killed several truck-loads of deer and elk with 30-06, 256 Newton (in a Newton rifle, no less) as well as 270 and several others. The last elk one of my Uncles took was with a 222 while he was deer hunting. Put the bullet in the correct spot and get your knife out, you've got work to do.
My Dad's last elk was taken with a 30-06 at about 200 yards. My last bull was taken with a 264 WM at under 150 yards. Meat in the freezer trumps pain in the shoulder any day of the week.

Just do your part and practice, practice then practice some more. Concentrate on putting the bullet where it will do what is needed.

So true...but I took a 257 WBY mag one time on a plains game hunt...I wanted more rifle everyday. A waterbuck at 250 yards--it killed him--but I wanted more. I have packed no less than a 338 win after that day. One of my favorite rifles for Texas is a 6 BR, 257 WBY, or my TC in a grendel...you don't need that much. I will add though when I spend big bucks on a hunt--far from home-I shoot more gun than is needed! I just practice a bit more.

I agree all about shot placement and practice. I have been using 30.06 excusively since I started hunting about 14 years ago. Lost my first two deer. Very sad but since have taken around 25 deer and 30+ hogs and not lost any. I thought I jerked the shot out of excitement but actually those first deer were probably dead within 50 yards where they were shot. Just didn't search properly. I have now tracked quite a few deer and hogs for others who thought they missed. You don't get blood a lot of the time with these super fast rounds going straight through with no expansion.

We'll agree to disagree on this one. I could take a 7-08 with a fixed 6x and never need anything else.

This is very true. I’m just as happy and have had just as much success shooting hogs with a .22 mag out past 100 yards than I have with a .308

"I have been hunting with a 300 Black Out for the last 4 seasons (about to be 5), and will keep using it this coming season. I'm pushing a 125 grain bullet at 2350 fps (16" suppressed bolt gun). I have taken countless game and critters with it."

Where does your round hit @200 yds if Zero is 2" high @100?

If we are talking general deer hunting from blinds over feeders I would agree with you.

For western hunting I would advise you get something more. I've had to make some 300-400 yard shots on mule deer and I don't think you would be well served by a fixed 6 like you would a good 4x12 or 4x16

My .257 wby has a 4x16 and I'm glad to have it for open country

4-16X

Shot placement is the #1 key all the time!!!!!

I own everything from a 300 Blck out to a 308 to 6.5 creed/Grendel and 7mm however when it comes to hunting Whitetail still shoot the same 25-06 I started on.

Flat shooting , low recoil and about 3200fps with a 117grain bullet.

I’m sure there’s better out there however I just like to stick with what I started with.

That's pretty good from a .25-06 are those handloads?


The .25-06 is a great cartridge that does not get enough accolades.

One of my hunting partners has a .25-06 and he bought a .270 to replace it because "the .25-06 didn't put them down like the .270"

I didn't want to start the argument that it want the rounds fault

Back in the days when I was outfitting and taking at least 50 whitetail hunters a year, I can remember the inexperienced hunters showing up with all the magnum calibers in the newest rifles. Many times the hunter had never fired the rifle as it was purchased the week before and only boresighted. We would take them to the range and by the time the hunter could get it on paper, he was flinching so badly that he could not fine tune it. There was no way that he was going to be able to cleanly kill a deer with the rifle that he was scared of. It was these guys who we would loan a .270 or other lighter recoiling rifle that we knew was sighted in, (one of our personal rifles) for the hunt.
We always liked to see the hunter open his case revealing a rifle that was showing some wear in .270, 30-06 or .308 as most all of the shots were within 200 yards on whitetails that would field dress from 110 to 140 pounds.
I have also seen my share of half moon wounds over the eye....
Adios,
Gary

What's funny is my go to gun is a Marlin 336 in 30-30 I got for Christmas at age 13 in about 1978. Now has a Burris scope on it to replace the old Tasco about ten years ago. It has dropped everything, deer, hogs, coyotes, exotics in one shot.

People have kidded me when I brought a 30-30 but I know exactly where it will hit and can repeatedly put it on target.

My longer range rifle tends to stay at home but I'll use it if I truly need a long range shot or maybe go after elk some day.

I like hearing all the stories and such. Over the years shooting and hunting, I have gone to less magnification scopes and calibers that are more shootable. I'd say 90% of my personal range time is done with a 308 Win and 300 blk out. Even for myself, ammo cost is a factor. And these 2 calibers are easy on the wallet and shoulder. Both calibers are set up on rifles that I enjoy shooting. I even take friends and customers out to the range to let them shoot these rifles. What's funny is when I tell them we are going to shoot 600 yards with the little 300 blk out and I walk them out from 100 to 600 with it! (Yes, it will do it, but no, it's not the best caliber by any means to reach out that far!)

A 30-30 across the lungs brings anything down within usually 25 yards with no meat damage. It works on elk to 300 yards that I know of.

Yes that was actually a handload And I was not the person who actually shot the rifle that particular day to put him on the ground. I would have to ask him and get back with you.

I personally just like the round as it’s a flat shooting round!

I love 300 Blck out!!!!!!
Doesn’t get enough credit for sure

You can certainly get a 25-06 with a 117 grain bullet to 3200 fps. It is a warm load, for sure. It did not shoot as good for up that high. I have a few 25-06 rifles that I have dialed in with the 115 Berger that shoot 3150 ish very well.

Even that is fast.....that's what the hornady superformance is rated at.

It seems like the round, along with the .257 Roberts, are watered down from the factory pretty good

The first hunting rifle I bought was a Marlin 336 30-30 I then bought a 7mm Mag that has a muzzle brake on it because a buddy lived in CO and said if I came up to elk hunt I needed something bigger. I enjoy shooting the 7mm Mag due to the muzzle brake and that 30-30 with the stock butt pad hurts.

When I'm out at the lease and hunting from the blind lbs over feeders I use my 270 which I enjoy shooting and have even started taking my 22-250 as well haven't lost a deer or shot them more than once yet. The same buddy is on the lease and he likes to bring his big guns 300 win and 300 win Mag and every time he takes a deer with one he shoots them at lease twice. I have told him he is shooting to hot of a round for the range from his stand to feeder but he won't listen. Then when he uses his 22-250 it's one shot and lights out because he really likes shooting it.

I was thinking of getting a 308 but didn't know if it would be enough, thought it would be and don't know what platform I want Ar or bolt. After I think I'll get one now its which platform. There was a guy that had one for sale on here about a week ago and before I could contact him he put it back in the safe, just my luck.

Paraphrase of comments made by a guide who works the Midwest Region...

"When a client shows up with a fancy rifle and expensive scope, I've learned to expect missed opportunities followed by foul language. But when a guy shows up with well-worn rifle and fixed-power optics, there will be meat to pack."

To each his own, and that's fine by me. I've spent the last 45 years hunting the wide open spaces of W NM, W TX, and the OK Panhandle, and have been fortunate to take a couple hundred deer, and culled at least 100 aoudad. I've never been in a situation where a 3-10x, or a fixed 6x cost me, or kept me from killing game out to 450 yards. Shooting steel/targets I do like mags up to 16x though.