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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896740
09/24/17 12:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I don't know the answer here. But the question was not adequately answered in the imbedded thread as to why benchrest shooters clean every 3-5 rounds. They shoot for precise accuracy. If cleaning the bore resulted in "pie plate" accuracy, they wouldn't do it.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896782
09/24/17 01:25 AM
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ChadTRG42
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Are we bench rest shooting here, or are we hunting? Are we shooting a bench rest rifle in this case? There's two types of shooting disciplines here. I'm using the one that works for hunting and match shooting where you don't clean your rifle every other shot. Which method do you use? Which method have you shot that works for you? I've shot enough to know what works and what doesn't on hunting, tactical and long range rifles.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6896802
09/24/17 01:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Are we bench rest shooting here, or are we hunting? Are we shooting a bench rest rifle in this case? There's two types of shooting disciplines here. I'm using the one that works for hunting and match shooting where you don't clean your rifle every other shot. Which method do you use? Which method have you shot that works for you? I've shot enough to know what works and what doesn't on hunting, tactical and long range rifles. Accuracy is accuracy. If cleaning every few rounds affects accuracy so much, please explain why benchrest shooters do it. If you can. That's your entire premise, after all. I said I don't know enough to stake out a hard and fast position. My belief is a fouling shot or two or three is needed/helpful after cleaning. But I don't clean my barrels all that often. And I don't shoot lots of rounds. So that's just my belief/method. I am prepared to accept that not cleaning until accuracy suffers is good practice. But you have still not explained why the guys obsessed with pinpoint accuracy clean their barrels every few rounds and how that squares with your (very condescending) statement to another poster who cleans his barrel that such a practice results in "pie plate" accuracy.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896807
09/24/17 01:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,615
SapperTitan
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I would think that starting with a barrel in the sweet spot and then cleaning it slightly after every few rounds would be the most accurate way to do things but in a hunting situation especially while hog hunting with say thermal at night are you gonna have time to clean the barrel after every 3 shots in the field? This is just one situation but there are many others where I wouldn't want to have to clean my barrel after every couple shots. Id rather get it fouled up and have it shoot MOA or maybe even better than MOA and not have to worry about it for a whole season or longer. I don't want to waste time shooting cleaning fouling and on and on when I could be hunting or getting stuff done around camp. When shooting benchers you would want the barrel to be as close to the same consistency as possible for every shot we are talking 1/4 inch difference in poi being an issue, there is no issue hunting with a rifle that is right at 1 MOA but thats not something you want in a competition right? This is just my opinion but seems like common sense.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6896809
09/24/17 01:48 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,615
SapperTitan
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If cleaning every few rounds affects accuracy so much, please explain why benchrest shooters do it. If you can. The issue is when you zero your rifle with a fouled barrel and then clean it to where its no longer fouled. This will change the POI on your first few shots after cleaning until the barrel is fouled again. Its not rocket science.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6896811
09/24/17 01:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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If cleaning every few rounds affects accuracy so much, please explain why benchrest shooters do it. If you can. The issue is when you zero your rifle with a fouled barrel and then clean it to where its no longer fouled. This will change the POI on your first few shots after cleaning until the barrel is fouled again. Its not rocket science. I get it sapper. I just asked a question.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6896815
09/24/17 01:51 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,615
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
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If cleaning every few rounds affects accuracy so much, please explain why benchrest shooters do it. If you can. The issue is when you zero your rifle with a fouled barrel and then clean it to where its no longer fouled. This will change the POI on your first few shots after cleaning until the barrel is fouled again. Its not rocket science. I get it sapper. I just asked a question. jeez it was just an answer not an assault.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896822
09/24/17 01:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Didn't take it as one. How often to clean is a subject just like how (or even whether) to "break in" a barrel. Ten different experts will give you ten different answers.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896834
09/24/17 02:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,145
ChadTRG42
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I don't bench rest shoot. Why they do it, not sure, and I don't care. Many shooters and reloaders have gotten themselves into trouble piggy backing their methods over to a hunting or tactical rig.
But here's what I can tell you about a clean, cold bore (CCB) shot. From a consistency stand point, if you fired 1 round, chronographed it (got the bullet velocity), and cleaned and fired the rifle again, and did this 10 times, you would have a VERY high extreme spread on your velocity readings. Very high, meaning easily over 50 fps ES. (and most likely a larger group than if the barrel were fouled in) Now, if I have a rifle that I'm making a cold bore shot (not CCB, but just a cold bore shot) at longer range or the shot is needed to be very precise, I don't want to have a high ES that can throw my shot off simply due to a fps variance from a clean bore. A barrel that has been fouled in (shot about 5-10 times) can now shoot in a consistent manner, from shot to shot to shot.
When shooting bench rest, they only shoot 100 or 200 yards, and having a low ES does not matter to them. Their bullets are generally barely stable also. I've debated this bench rest technique vs. hunting/target shooting for years. They have their methods, we have ours.
But if you don't know enough about the matter, how can you even state an opinion on the matter. You even said "My belief is a fouling shot or two or three is needed/helpful after cleaning." So, if you do this yourself, but say cleaning after every shot is fine for solid accuracy and consistency, that's contradictory.
Tell you what, bring out a rifle or two of yours, and lets put it to the test. I'd love to figure this out. I'll even bring a 308 or another rifle to "test" this and put some solid numbers to it.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896843
09/24/17 02:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I don't have a hard opinion. Just pointed out what I did. I said I didn't know and didn't claim to be an expert. I didn't say cleaning after every shot or few shots is good or bad. I just asked why benchrest guys do it.
You do claim to be an expert. You're the one a few posts ago claiming it results in "pie plate" accuracy. Which is why I directed the question to you. You answered it. You don't know and don't care. Thank you.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6896845
09/24/17 02:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,145
ChadTRG42
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Judd, what say you on the bench rest topic!!!??
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6897172
09/24/17 03:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,784
pigplinker
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I do shoot with a dry bore, and some times light fouling in it. I don't leave oil in the barrel and I do run several dry patches to clean any bore solvents used. I shoot a cold barrel when sighting in. I want to make one shot count. I am not offended by anything said here and can appreciate the expert advise. I look at it as more education that I can use. Thanks Jerry T.
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6897387
09/24/17 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,773
Judd
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Benchrest guys would rarely (I'd say never but I'm sure someone has done it) shoot a clean bore shot as a record shot. They may clean a lot but the fact they would almost never make the first clean bore shot for score says something.
The short range guys are the ones who clean all the time and they rarely shoot over 200y too.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: Checking your rifles Zero before season
[Re: StephensCnty308]
#6897438
09/24/17 07:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,919
J.G.
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Clean barrels are nothing but trouble.
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