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Sickle tails #6790744 06/12/17 12:59 PM
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bill oxner Offline OP
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Would you breed a pointer or setter that had a really pronounced sickle tail.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6790834 06/12/17 02:18 PM
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No. One of the best quail dogs I ever owned had a terrible tail and couldn't take the chance of passing this trait forward. Dixie was out of some of the best shooting dog blood, had a choke bore nose, natural retriever and backed as far as she could see. You be the judge what if she passed this tail?

Last edited by Chet; 06/12/17 02:19 PM.
Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6790844 06/12/17 02:27 PM
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Interesting read here on this with Rock Acre Black Hawk and sickle tails/ tails to forward. Should he have not been able to breed?
http://gundogforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=13016


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Re: Sickle tails [Re: cattle69] #6790855 06/12/17 02:39 PM
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Different case all together. Many great sires have passed unwanted traits on occasion. Tail, bite etc.(with Blackhawk some say pups with longish hair were possible). But visually and based on performance Blackhawk is one you would breed and take your chances.

Tail looks good to me. So did Snakefoot's.


Last edited by Chet; 06/12/17 02:43 PM.
Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6790870 06/12/17 02:53 PM
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bill oxner Offline OP
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Levi had a sickle tail.

This is Levi;

Registered Nbr: 1473006
Owner: THOMAS MITCHELL
Registered Name: TEXAKAN ELHEW LEVI
Callname: LEVI
Breed: English Pointer
Region: GCT
Sex: F
Date Whelped: N\A
Sire: CH ELHEW SNAKEFOOT
Dam: HANNA'S ELHEW LOU

Number of Times Open Champion: 1
Date of Championship: Saturday, April 22, 2000
Total Open Points: 35

Bryce wanted to repeat the breeding but Snakefoot could no longer breed. Bryce bred Hanna to Elhew Jefferson. I got a pup out of that litter. It had a sickle tail.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6790898 06/12/17 03:10 PM
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One other comment, if several hunting buddies wanted pups out of Dixie and the male was another fine quail dog I would take the chance knowing that only result wanted is a fine quail dog. But if I was looking to pay $1000 stud fee and hope to sell pups to trialers for $800 to $1000 I couldn't see my way clear to breed her. I was interested in the latter and just to much time and money involved to use her.

I have a totally different circumstance now with a dog that came up lame but has all the traits I'd want in a dog. Can't morally sell his pups but have several bird hunters that want pups so may raise a litter and see if the problem shows up or not (looking at his pedigree you can go back generations with no problem). But no one would want to take a chance for hopes of buying a winner or to breed to their good female.

Re: Sickle tails [Re: Chet] #6791025 06/12/17 05:13 PM
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I would not breed a sickle tail dog personally. Now that is my opinion but to each their own.


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Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6791141 06/12/17 07:35 PM
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This is all interesting to me. Anything not affecting performance in the field would not bother me a bit. I am obviously not a "dog man" at all though. As far as I know, my Jenny may be lacking in several areas relating to build and appearance for a GSP. I couldn't care less.

I would hunt behind a Heinz 57 if it was a good bird dog. smile


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6791776 06/13/17 10:24 AM
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How about an older dog who had a poker straight tail twelve o'clock as a young dog, and now has what appears to be a reverse sickle. Is any consideration given to that in regard to breeding?

I had another one who carried his tail as a sickle, but straightened it out on point. I could cite witnesses to prove it.
They were nonbelievers as well...until they saw it take place, and were amazed and said as much.

Now I am not claiming it as a 12:00 tail, more like a 10:30, but it DID straighten and quiver like the buzzers on a rattlesnake on point.

Last edited by Pointer; 06/13/17 12:38 PM.
Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6791984 06/13/17 02:45 PM
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Marry an ugly woman and be happy the rest of your life have and ugly bird dog and all your friends will feel sorry for you.


Tigger
If it isn't white it is not a birddog.

KC
Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy.
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Re: Sickle tails [Re: Pointer] #6792410 06/13/17 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pointer
How about an older dog who had a poker straight tail twelve o'clock as a young dog, and now has what appears to be a reverse sickle. Is any consideration given to that in regard to breeding?

I had another one who carried his tail as a sickle, but straightened it out on point. I could cite witnesses to prove it.
They were nonbelievers as well...until they saw it take place, and were amazed and said as much.

Now I am not claiming it as a 12:00 tail, more like a 10:30, but it DID straighten and quiver like the buzzers on a rattlesnake on point.
I had a trial dog named RockNRoller. He was out of Damascus and Bayou Country Daisy. Flashiest dog I ever owned. As a young dog he had a poker straight 12 o'clock tail with a birdy knot. As a derby he started pulling that poker tail to 1 o'clock. As a Shooting dog he started pulling it bad. Ran with a high crackin tail. One of Gordon Hazlewood's guys bought him and Gordon ran that hard luck sucker for a few years. Armadillos was his weakness. Anyway he was bred to several dogs and most of them had sickle tails like Mt Nebos Dolly and Mt Nebos Bell. His get won many Championships and he never did. Serious Threat, Mt Nebos Lefty and Lock N Load were a few of his pups. Here he is as a pup I think he was 7-8 months old. He could really fly. When we were taking the picture. One of my "friends" threw a pen raised quail and he wanted it. LOL






Bobby Barnett

Re: Sickle tails [Re: bobcat1] #6792475 06/13/17 11:35 PM
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Great looking pup Bobby, sounds like pretty fair stud to boot.

Re: Sickle tails [Re: Chet] #6792528 06/14/17 12:50 AM
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Only thing Mikey was a little short on was bottom. He ran such a strong race at the end of the hour he was done. He had the Texas Shooting dog Championship all but won one year and took out his 5th find, which he did not need at 59 minutes. He had another championship won but a pesky armadillo got in his sights at 55 minutes. Back when I was handling him he had the Texas Classic Derby won and took out a bird at the end. Pee Wee Cole was judging him and said you need to trade that dog to me. Of course I wouldn't but then Gordon came to the Classic he ran in and one of his clients offered more money than I could turn down and the dog really needed to go to the major circuit to show his stuff. Gordon gave one of his 6 month old pups named Ace to me to train and polish his pattern and said he'd be back to get him in 6 months. He came and got him and bought him back for a tidy sum. Ace ran like a wild thing way too big for Shooting dog and I told Gordon that and Andy Daugherty wound up with him for his owner. He was bad to chase deer and I got him off of them but Andy said he reverted back to chasing them and never could get him stopped from doing it. He was a heck of a dog and I always wonder what happened to him. Another dog was FatZDomNo. I called him Fatz. He was another gift from a friend named Charlie Collier. That is a long story for another day. I put him down 13 times and was 1st 12 times and 3rd once. He won a RU CH and a CH under Gordon until the owner that bought him from me thru Gordon took him back after he agreed to sell him to another client of Gordon's. It was a bad deal and pretty sorry by that owner. Dog never won anything else and he was just 3.

I've been pretty lucky with dogs.


Bobby Barnett

Re: Sickle tails [Re: bobcat1] #6792540 06/14/17 01:09 AM
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I don't know Bobby either pretty lucky or pretty dang good with them. You got to stop hiding all this good stuff an offer up some more great stories. If Gordon Hazelwood and Andy Daugherty wanted to handle him he must have been a gooden'.

Re: Sickle tails [Re: Chet] #6792551 06/14/17 01:21 AM
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Haha! I was lucky. All my field trial friends couldn't believe every year I had a dandy pup to run. I was fortunate with my work schedule and my place was 25 acres. It was good puppy starting grounds and I used a ton of pigeons that I raised. I also lived close to the trial grounds at the Grasslands so I could run them horseback 2 times a week in the middle of the week early mornings and get to work by 10. Never kept more than 4 dogs so they got a lot of attention. It was all about the repetitions, letting them show what they could do and getting them to do it for me. I never had a dog that would cow down to me. They always looked really happy at whatever they were doing.


Bobby Barnett

Re: Sickle tails [Re: bill oxner] #6792554 06/14/17 01:23 AM
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Sorry for the Hijack. Now back to Bill's topic about Sickle Tail breeding.


Bobby Barnett

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