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 Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: J.G.]
#6786064
06/07/17 12:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Sapper has given some good responses, but (as I'm still learning) once you engage in an ignorant thread it is only going to end up more ignorant most of the time. Sapper is not ignorant, nor am I or many others on here. Some of us have been hunting safely for a long time and find it strange that there is this new phenomenon of safety that we didn't already know bout. Soooooo, you see your target through your top dollar binos..positively identify, put them down, pick up your rifle and probably then chamber a round because you have little to no real hunting experience outside of internet forums & TV and are most likely scared of the rifle anyway and don't understand the concept of being quiet and quick....so you then carefully slide your rifle out of the window of your blind and pray that there are no innocents in or behind your field of view. You want to make the shot but you are so nervous about what your wife thinks there is no WAY you are going to make a quick and humane kill...so you get the shakes and shoot for lungs. When you don't find your animal, you blame the rifle/bullet/scope/weather/whatever. I've seen it many times and is typical. On private land where you know your surroundings of course you scan with your scope when you need to. How many of you have been stalking/rattling deer during the rut covering good sized areas? You do a lot of looking with your rifle on the ready at your shoulders, while your partner is calling. Guess we're stupid and are gonna shoot somebody. Good lord man.  Exactly. So the guys that use binoculars to scan for game are the TV hunters/newbies now?  P.S. When you're stalking and rattling, use binoculars. You will see more bucks, a lot quicker. That "rifle at the ready" (meaning raised and looking through the scope) business is silly. (In close quarters, you don't need binoculars or riflescope to scan. Just use your eyes, raise the rifle when a buck comes in, and make your decision.) A rifle is a tool to kill game. A riflescope is an aiming device for the rifle. Neither are tools to locate game. Binoculars are a tool to locate game. Rangefinders are a tool to well..........the name speaks for itself. Use the proper tool for the proper job for the best results. This stuff ain't hard. I do agree with your first sentence.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6786082
06/07/17 12:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,307
J.G.
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You're such a damn hypocrite. More times than I can count, you are in that troop of monkeys talking smack about guys using turreted scopes, with "busy" reticles to hunt with.
"I just zero at 200 yards, if I think it's farther than 400, I just put muh reticle on its back, it's been working that way for blah, blah, blah."
And I accept however anyone wants to use their gear, as long as they practice with it. Mil, MOA, MPBR, as long as its confirmed. But oh, no, a guy that doesn't tote around a two pound pair of binoculars, he's not invested in the right gear, he's doing it wrong, he needs to spend money, and learn what he doesn't know. No way can a monocular work. Those never work. U.S. Snipers don't use those every day, hunting men, that can see color, that are hunting them.
Damn hypocrite.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786099
06/07/17 01:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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First, you misstate things I say ("straw man") to try and make a point. For example, I have said all your advocacy of turreted scopes, etc. is great and a necessity for LR. My pushback is when you insist turreted scopes/dialing is a necessity for normal range hunting, because your input is always assuming everyone needs a LR rig because that's what you do. You turn every thread into a LR thread.
Second, advising hunters to buy and use binoculars is pretty basic stuff JG. They are pretty much a necessity in a hunter's arsenal. A monocular, rangefinder, and riflescope don't do the job nearly as well. Again, the fact that you pushback on that says all that needs to be said about your hunting know-how.
And you calling someone a hypocrite for having an opinion is laughable for a guy who spends half his posts telling everyone how it's done and the other half telling them how great they are.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786106
06/07/17 01:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 13,218
PMK
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glad that's settled, everyone should take binoculars and a camera to their hunting blinds ... nothing will be harmed or threatened. 
"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."
~PMK~
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: PMK]
#6786109
06/07/17 01:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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glad that's settled, everyone should take binoculars and a camera to their hunting blinds ... nothing will be harmed or threatened. Another complete misreading of the thread.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786125
06/07/17 01:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 13,218
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that wasn't directed at you ... merely some that seem concerned with the "what if's" that are extremely less likely than reality.
"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."
~PMK~
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: PMK]
#6786133
06/07/17 01:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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that wasn't directed at you ... merely some that seem concerned with the "what if's" that are extremely less likely than reality. I'll admit my advocacy of binoculars to scan/locate has more to do with the benefits for hunting than the safety aspect. But the safety aspect is a very positive byproduct. 40 years ago me and just about everyone I knew didn't own/use binoculars. We just used our scopes for everything. We also all either found someone in our scopes or were looked at through others' scopes at one time or another. We all use binoculars now - even the old men (many of whom are gone now). I honestly don't remember who brought the first pair, but it didn't take long until everyone had a pair. Looking back, I know we didn't see a lot of deer we otherwise would have. Scanning with your rifle gets old quickly, so you tend not to do it much.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786152
06/07/17 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,408
Jgraider
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The very basic premise, and source of my question, remains very simple.....
It is either OK, or not, to scan unknown "targets", or search for "targets" using a scope mounted on a loaded weapon. Yes or no?
1ST COMMANDMENT OF FIREARM SAFETY
Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
This is the most important gun safety rule. A safe direction is one in which an accidental discharge will not cause injury to yourself or others. Never allow your gun to point at anything you don't intend to shoot.
I would imagine this pertains to Craig Boddington, Jim Shockey, and everyone else on the planet, but I may be wrong.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786185
06/07/17 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,269
swmays
THF Trophy Hunter
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I think we all agree that scanning with your scope is dangerous. But I feel it is somewhat lower on the dangerous scale than when a group of folks are standing around the truck loading/unloading firearms from the truck. And/or loading or unloading ammunition from the firearms. I know the truck scenario is off topic, but that is when my danger radar is up and running.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: swmays]
#6786205
06/07/17 02:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I think we all agree that scanning with your scope is dangerous. But I feel it is somewhat lower on the dangerous scale than when a group of folks are standing around the truck loading/unloading firearms from the truck. And/or loading or unloading ammunition from the firearms. I know the truck scenario is off topic, but that is when my danger radar is up and running. I agree.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: swmays]
#6786216
06/07/17 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,408
Jgraider
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I think we all agree that scanning with your scope is dangerous. But I feel it is somewhat lower on the dangerous scale than when a group of folks are standing around the truck loading/unloading firearms from the truck. And/or loading or unloading ammunition from the firearms. I know the truck scenario is off topic, but that is when my danger radar is up and running. Most of us anyway. Good post, and I agree.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786324
06/07/17 04:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,632
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Let me ask y'all this
How many of you walk to you deer stand with your rifle slung on your shoulder with the muzzle pointing up? IMO this is as dangerous or more dangerous than scanning with your rifle on safe and finger off the trigger. If you slip or fall you have no control at all over your muzzle it's gonna go where ever momentum takes it. If your not walking with your weapon in your hands or slung across your chest where you can maintain control of the muzzle at all times you are much more dangerous to the people around you than someone who is scanning with their rifle scope.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6786327
06/07/17 04:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Let me ask y'all this
How many of you walk to you deer stand with your rifle slung on your shoulder with the muzzle pointing up? IMO this is as dangerous or more dangerous than scanning with your rifle on safe and finger off the trigger. If you slip or fall you have no control at all over your muzzle it's gonna go where ever momentum takes it. If your not walking with your weapon in your hands or slung across your chest where you can maintain control of the muzzle at all times you are much more dangerous to the people around you than someone who is scanning with their rifle scope. No problem at all if you don't walk around with a round in the chamber. Which is another pretty basic rule.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6786331
06/07/17 04:27 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,211
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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Sapper has given some good responses, but (as I'm still learning) once you engage in an ignorant thread it is only going to end up more ignorant most of the time. Sapper is not ignorant, nor am I or many others on here. Some of us have been hunting safely for a long time and find it strange that there is this new phenomenon of safety that we didn't already know bout. Soooooo, you see your target through your top dollar binos..positively identify, put them down, pick up your rifle and probably then chamber a round because you have little to no real hunting experience outside of internet forums & TV and are most likely scared of the rifle anyway and don't understand the concept of being quiet and quick....so you then carefully slide your rifle out of the window of your blind and pray that there are no innocents in or behind your field of view. You want to make the shot but you are so nervous about what your wife thinks there is no WAY you are going to make a quick and humane kill...so you get the shakes and shoot for lungs. When you don't find your animal, you blame the rifle/bullet/scope/weather/whatever. I've seen it many times and is typical. On private land where you know your surroundings of course you scan with your scope when you need to. How many of you have been stalking/rattling deer during the rut covering good sized areas? You do a lot of looking with your rifle on the ready at your shoulders, while your partner is calling. Guess we're stupid and are gonna shoot somebody. Good lord man. Exactly. So the guys that use binoculars to scan for game are the TV hunters/newbies now? P.S. When you're stalking and rattling, use binoculars. You will see more bucks, a lot quicker. That "rifle at the ready" (meaning raised and looking through the scope) business is silly. (In close quarters, you don't need binoculars or riflescope to scan. Just use your eyes, raise the rifle when a buck comes in, and make your decision.) A rifle is a tool to kill game. A riflescope is an aiming device for the rifle. Neither are tools to locate game. Binoculars are a tool to locate game. Rangefinders are a tool to well..........the name speaks for itself. Use the proper tool for the proper job for the best results. This stuff ain't hard. I do agree with your first sentence. No, that's not what I said. I use binos too, when needed. Why make this so complicated? I guess you don't get it, again. 9 times out of 10 in the brush country where I hunt, if you're out rattling and try the whole "let me put my binos down and then raise my rifle and make a decision" that buck is GONE. They come and go FAST. You have to be ready. That doesn't mean safety off and finger on the trigger. Jeezus. Same thing as turkey hunting. Sometimes change locations many times. Your gun is up AND YOU AIN'T MOVING. If you do, bird is gone. Of course your rifle is pointed in a safe direction at all times because you know your target area and are constantly verifying that anyway, but thanks for explaining to me whatever it is that you said there. I had no idea.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786335
06/07/17 04:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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When I deer 'hunt' it is from an elevated stand in the middle of our private property. We hunt a sendero cut into the woods and as soon as I get to the stand I set my rifle up to shoot at a 30x30 yard area around our feeder. During prime times first/last light if anything interesting shows up you better believe the first look I get at it will be through a rifle scope.
I use the binos to check all other areas around me and behind me. I wouldn't do that on public land nor when in the mountains on foot. But I have no problem with it in the situation I described.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6786340
06/07/17 04:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,632
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,632 |
Let me ask y'all this
How many of you walk to you deer stand with your rifle slung on your shoulder with the muzzle pointing up? IMO this is as dangerous or more dangerous than scanning with your rifle on safe and finger off the trigger. If you slip or fall you have no control at all over your muzzle it's gonna go where ever momentum takes it. If your not walking with your weapon in your hands or slung across your chest where you can maintain control of the muzzle at all times you are much more dangerous to the people around you than someone who is scanning with their rifle scope. No problem at all if you don't walk around with a cartridge in the barrel. Which is another pretty basic rule. so when spotting and stalking hogs and deer you shouldn't have a round in the chamber? I chamber a round as soon as I get out of my truck and then weapon goes on safe and I maintain positive control of my muzzle and practice strict trigger discipline. Have you tried quietly loading a round into an AR chamber? It's not very quiet and if you do it slowly the round doesn't usually get seated all the way then you have to use the forward assist and hope it's in there all the way.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786344
06/07/17 04:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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skinnerback the topic is about scanning for game using your riflescope.
You are talking about something else. My response was was because, while you were talking about something else - you called those who were talking about the actual topic at hand ignorant. Using your "something else" topic as the example of their supposed "ignorance".
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6786347
06/07/17 04:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,632
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
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skinnerback the topic is about scanning for game using your riflescope.
You are talking about something else. My response was was because, while you were talking about something else - you called those who were talking about the actual topic at hand ignorant. Using your "something else" topic as the example of their supposed "ignorance". 
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6786351
06/07/17 04:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Let me ask y'all this
How many of you walk to you deer stand with your rifle slung on your shoulder with the muzzle pointing up? IMO this is as dangerous or more dangerous than scanning with your rifle on safe and finger off the trigger. If you slip or fall you have no control at all over your muzzle it's gonna go where ever momentum takes it. If your not walking with your weapon in your hands or slung across your chest where you can maintain control of the muzzle at all times you are much more dangerous to the people around you than someone who is scanning with their rifle scope. No problem at all if you don't walk around with a cartridge in the barrel. Which is another pretty basic rule. so when spotting and stalking hogs and deer you shouldn't have a round in the chamber? I chamber a round as soon as I get out of my truck and then weapon goes on safe and I maintain positive control of my muzzle and practice strict trigger discipline. Have you tried quietly loading a round into an AR chamber? It's not very quiet and if you do it slowly the round doesn't usually get seated all the way then you have to use the forward assist and hope it's in there all the way. All well and good. If you have positive control, that works. But is still not advisable. You can fall. By far the best practice is to carry without a round in the chamber until game is spotted. Period. I am pretty sure you were the one saying "walking to the deer stand" though. I walk over a mile to my main deer stand. I hike for miles in the mountains with a rifle on my pack and/or shoulder. Carrying a rifle "at the ready" is not an option. Those that think it is under those conditions are gonna figure out they are wrong pretty quickly.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: mattyg06]
#6786369
06/07/17 04:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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When I deer 'hunt' it is from an elevated stand in the middle of our private property. We hunt a sendero cut into the woods and as soon as I get to the stand I set my rifle up to shoot at a 30x30 yard area around our feeder. During prime times first/last light if anything interesting shows up you better believe the first look I get at it will be through a rifle scope.
I use the binos to check all other areas around me and behind me. I wouldn't do that on public land nor when in the mountains on foot. But I have no problem with it in the situation I described. Again talking about evaluating game already spotted. Again not the topic.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Jgraider]
#6786372
06/07/17 04:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,632
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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I've walked 20 Kilometers at a time in Afghanistan with full battle rattle many times in mountainous terrain carrying excess gear on my back in a pack with my weapon at the low ready the entire time. I walked 1600 kilometers in 8 months with my weapon at the low ready the entire time with a round in the chamber. It's not that hard.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6786377
06/07/17 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,408
Jgraider
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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Let me ask y'all this
How many of you walk to you deer stand with your rifle slung on your shoulder with the muzzle pointing up? IMO this is as dangerous or more dangerous than scanning with your rifle on safe and finger off the trigger. If you slip or fall you have no control at all over your muzzle it's gonna go where ever momentum takes it. If your not walking with your weapon in your hands or slung across your chest where you can maintain control of the muzzle at all times you are much more dangerous to the people around you than someone who is scanning with their rifle scope. We can "what if" the thing to death, so please keep this thread pertaining to the original question please, or come up with your own poll/question.....  BTW Sapper.....thank you for your service to our great country.
Last edited by Jgraider; 06/07/17 05:06 PM.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6786381
06/07/17 05:00 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,211
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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skinnerback the topic is about scanning for game using your riflescope.
You are talking about something else. My response was was because, while you were talking about something else - you called those who were talking about the actual topic at hand ignorant. Using your "something else" topic as the example of their supposed "ignorance". OMG
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6786383
06/07/17 05:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I've walked 20 Kilometers at a time in Afghanistan with full battle rattle many times in mountainous terrain carrying excess gear on my back in a pack with my weapon at the low ready the entire time. I walked 1600 kilometers in 8 months with my weapon at the low ready the entire time with a round in the chamber. It's not that hard. I knew you were going to say that. Battle is a little different than hunting, where stuff isn't going to shoot back. That fact kinda changes the rules a little. I know you are tough too. None of which is relevant to what we are talking about.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rifle/Hunting Safety Qeustion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6786388
06/07/17 05:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,632
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
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Posts: 29,632 |
I've walked 20 Kilometers at a time in Afghanistan with full battle rattle many times in mountainous terrain carrying excess gear on my back in a pack with my weapon at the low ready the entire time. I walked 1600 kilometers in 8 months with my weapon at the low ready the entire time with a round in the chamber. It's not that hard. I knew you were going to say that. Battle is a little different than hunting, where stuff isn't going to shoot back. That fact kinda changes the rules a little. I know you are tough too. None of which is relevant to what we are talking about. doesn't change the fact that it still has to be done safely. The point is there are lots of things that can be dangerous when hunting but there are ways to mitigate the risk. If you scan back and forth with your rifle scope and weapon on fire with a round in the chamber and finger on the trigger then your an idiot. If you scan an area you are familiar with, with weapon on safe and finger off the trigger you are taking steps to mitigate risk. It may not be the best option but for some it is their only option and as long as they are safe about it that works for me.
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