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Thermals on 458 SOCOM #6783107 06/04/17 02:56 AM
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CharlieCTx Offline OP
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While the round is obvious, is the shock from a .458 round significantly more than a .308 to affect a scope? Given the upper goes on a .223 lower vs a .308 lower (I personally don't know the difference), curious if it's alot more? Kind of interested in maybe getting a bigger hammer for my XD-50 to sit on.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6783119 06/04/17 03:09 AM
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Yes the round is more punishing than 223 and 308.

5 years ago nothing in night vision (civilian / commercial grade) would have been a good idea on top of anything larger than 308.

Now IR Defense and Pulsar appear to be the best options for hard recoil calibers.

I've submitted my personal equipment to 458 socom and my opinion is to protect your investment in the Xd and either sale it and get a new version that is recoil rated that way your warranty is sound

Or

Put a Sightmark PhotonXT on the socom .

I like the idea of thrashing a 500 dollar unit more than a 3000 dollar unit.

Again with the latest trail and apex scopes they have higher recoil ratings so give it a go...

On my PhotonXT I had shot 50 rounds of socom with no adverse effects to function but that was with a recoil friendly muzzle break (3 chamber high side concussion) when I switched brakes to a forward blast style the scope would cut off due to recoil which tells me socom is borderline for the design.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6783265 06/04/17 01:22 PM
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The new Photon "RT" series is supposed to be heavy recoil rated. (Not out yet)

http://yukonopticsglobal.com/products/digital-nv-riflescopes-photon-rt/riflescope-photon-rt-6x50s/

Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6783291 06/04/17 02:03 PM
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I bought a Photon XT for use on an AR15 a while back and got curious as to whether it would stand up to recoil an a bigger gun. The only spec I could find on the website indicated it was rated "to 1000 Gs." Not real helpful. I made a phone call to Sightmark, and I was told it was not recommended for anything with much more recoil than an AR, but it might be okay on a .220 Swift. All that told me was that they're not very confident in the XT---at least they weren't at that time.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6783392 06/04/17 04:16 PM
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I wonder who you spoke with as I don't believe there was ever any question about it handling a .308. 1000g'ss is 3-4 times more g's than you will need to handle .308.

I would check with the manufacturer before putting an electro-optical scope on a .458 socom. There are scopes that should handle the recoil like the Zeus Pro, IR Hunter MKIII series, and the Sig Echo 1, but verify first. FYI, I did shoot quite a bit of .50 Beowulf with a Sig Echo 1 with no problems.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6783447 06/04/17 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
I wonder who you spoke with as I don't believe there was ever any question about it handling a .308. 1000g'ss is 3-4 times more g's than you will need to handle .308.
.

No question of XD50A on .308.

One thing I won't do is go back to NV for a .458. I'll just keep throwing .308 bullets. I shot (3) recovered one Friday night. Thanks to the suppressor, I heard at least two impacts on the two that got away to the brambles. I know... shot placement. aim


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6784180 06/05/17 03:35 PM
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Pulsar is rated to 375 H&H and Armasight Pro line is rated to 50 BMG. Mil spec thermals are usually rated to 50 as well.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6784380 06/05/17 07:19 PM
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I have never seen a Pulsar rated to a caliber. The rating has always been in joules. The magic number has always been 6000 on their Digisights and Thermals.

Of course the elephant in the room that nobody discusses and that even by caliber, not everything is equal. Factors such as the rifle weight, rifle mounting, bullet weight, and powder load can all influence just how much recoil is transferred to the scope. While some .375 H&H do approach the 6000 joule limit (and some are way down around 5300-5400) some surpass the 6000 joule limit by 200-300 joules. Not all .375 H&H are safe for Pulsar products.

Here it should be pointed out that the recoil pulse on a lightweight .338 Lapua rifle can be much more severe that what is experienced on an M82A1 .50 bmg Barrett that is MUCH heavier and has the benefit of multiple recoil reducing devices.

It would not be prudent to try to scope a rifle to the limit of the scope's recoil capability. That will likely not be beneficial to the scope.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6784518 06/05/17 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
I have never seen a Pulsar rated to a caliber. The rating has always been in joules. The magic number has always been 6000 on their Digisights and Thermals.

Of course the elephant in the room that nobody discusses and that even by caliber, not everything is equal. Factors such as the rifle weight, rifle mounting, bullet weight, and powder load can all influence just how much recoil is transferred to the scope. While some .375 H&H do approach the 6000 joule limit (and some are way down around 5300-5400) some surpass the 6000 joule limit by 200-300 joules. Not all .375 H&H are safe for Pulsar products.

Here it should be pointed out that the recoil pulse on a lightweight .338 Lapua rifle can be much more severe that what is experienced on an M82A1 .50 bmg Barrett that is MUCH heavier and has the benefit of multiple recoil reducing devices.

It would not be prudent to try to scope a rifle to the limit of the scope's recoil capability. That will likely not be beneficial to the scope.



Agreed. Rifle recoil pulse varies tremendously based on weight, how you hold the rifle, support, etc. However, in the 2017 catalog Pulsar does specifically publish recoil ratings. See below from page 22 in the Trail section of the 2017 Pulsar catalog:



Last edited by MDMORROW; 06/05/17 09:55 PM.

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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6784661 06/06/17 12:32 AM
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Your just going to have to get a suppressor to keep the recoil down so your high end optics are safe.


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Re: Thermals on 458 SOCOM [Re: CharlieCTx] #6787229 06/08/17 01:49 PM
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I had a love/hate relationship with my 458 Socoms....
They don't really kick like a normal rifle with a sharp kick and short displacement.
They produce a different harmonic - more of a hard push with long travel.
Kinda like being hit by a bulldozer - you aren't going anywhere fast but you ARE going to move.

I loved how they took down the big pigs.
They were fun to shoot and accurate.

I hated losing a piece of brass.
It was expensive to shoot even when I didn't lose the brass and I reload.
It killed EVERY optic I put on it, including 2 fairly good scopes and a Pulsar N750.

It was a fairly light rifle thought as I carried it while walking/stalking so I'm sure that contributed.
I finally just kept iron sights on it and used it during the day until I sold it and built another 6.8 upper.


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