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The current testing data on CWD. #6779681 05/31/17 03:55 PM
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therancher Offline OP
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Shows a higher % infection rate in "free range" cervids than in breeding facilities. Got this from the exotic wildlife association this am:


"In an effort to provide all of you with the most accurate information regarding CWD testing, I would like to outline some facts about the current testing levels across our state. The subsequent data shows the amount of samples collected, the amount of deer tested, and the breakdown of private samples versus TPWD samples since 2002. Please note the following information:

Total Testing for CWD

Total Tests for CWD Since 2002: 160,064
Total TPWD Tests Since 2002: 62,059
Total Private Tests Since 2002: 98,005

Since Finding CWD in 2015

Total Tests for CWD Since 2015: 99,885
Total TPWD Tests Since 2015: 32,737
Total Private Tests Since 2015: 67,148

CWD Overview in Texas

CWD was first found in Texas in WILD deer in 2012.
ONLY 50 deer have been found to be CWD positive in Texas since 2012.
Millions of dollars have been spent on "managing and monitoring" for this disease since 2012.
There are approximately 4 million deer in Texas.

Wild CWD Testing and Prevalence

Total TPWD tests submitted since 2015 = 32,737
Total CWD positives found in Texas since 2015 = 18 total free-ranging deer.

This means there is a total prevalence of about five one-hundredths of one percent - .055%.
Prevalence = # of Positives/# of Sampled
18 positives/32,737 sample = .055% prevalence.

CWD in the wild herd continues to spread across the landscape into new counties with no real management plan, response plan, or way to stop the spread across North, West, and Central Texas.

Industry Regulations and Testing

More than 1,000 deer killed for testing as a requirement to maintain customers and business continuity due to a perceived emergency that never existed.
More than 67,148 total tests from private facilities across the state have been submitted since CWD was found. (There are estimated to be about 98,000 total deer in pens).
This is more than DOUBLE the tests submitted by TPWD!
Only 32 deer found with CWD in five facilities located within a 15-mile radius of another. There are more than 1,200 breeding facilities and more than 5,000 release sites across Texas.
This means there is a total prevalence of about five one-hundredths of one percent - .047%!!
Prevalence = # of Positives/# of Sampled
32 positives/67,148 samples = .047% prevalence.

TO BE CLEAR, according to the data provided, there is a higher prevalence of CWD in the wild than there is in captive facilities!

Summary of Taxpayer Spending
(These numbers will need to be updated to reflect costs since 2012)

TPWD spent about $1.5 million over the past two years on CWD.
TAHC has spent more than $1 million over the past two years on CWD
This massive increase in testing and overwhelming burden on landowners has only found 32 deer in captive facilities and 18 in the wild with CWD!!!
That means they spent about $50,000 per positive deer of taxpayer money.
Additionally, it has been estimated that the regulations, rhetoric, and falsehoods spread about this disease have caused a NEGATIVE impact of more than $25 million dollars on the industry and Texas economy alone! That means the potential cost to hardworking Texas families is more than $750,000 per positive deer.

Despite the large negative impact on the industry, the testing information provided above is extremely uplifting for the industry in Texas. This data undeniably shows that we are one of the healthiest industries in the country. Despite CWD being found in the wild and in captive deer in our state, the Texas deer industry has done an incredible job of testing it's animals to ensure proper disease management has occurred.

As we look to another year of discussions surrounding CWD, I would like your collective input on what other information might be relevant to request from our regulatory agencies that will help show the entire picture of how CWD has impacted the wildlife in Texas and how regulation has impacted our industry. Please feel free to send me any questions you may have of our regulatory agencies. We will request the information of them that is most important to our industry."


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6779828 05/31/17 05:52 PM
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flounder is that you?

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6779848 05/31/17 06:01 PM
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Source? TDA?

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: 8pointdrop] #6779870 05/31/17 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
flounder is that you?


Nope, this just helps prove that its not as bad as some people talk it up to be.



Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6779982 05/31/17 07:23 PM
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I would only worry if a "hot spot " turns up, many positives. Then it's in the environment to stay.
I think maybe increased scrutiny has led to many thinking it is spreading across the state. You will know it if you see a waster's deer, skinny, drooling and unafraid of people.They will appear very uncoordinated too.

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: 8pointdrop] #6780243 06/01/17 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
flounder is that you?

roflmao


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6780453 06/01/17 03:21 AM
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Well I think most reasonable people know it's a horse [censored] situation.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: fouzman] #6780530 06/01/17 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: fouzman
Source? TDA?

No. Exotic Wildlife Association.

It was in an email they sent me. So I couldn't post a link and hence the flounder similarity.

The data is from tpwd and tahc.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6780553 06/01/17 08:24 AM
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Well, there's two ways to look at it.

Another way of looking at it is that the non-import laws, TTT rules, and scrutiny are working to contain the spread of CWD. And you gotta have extensive testing data to know where things stand.

And while the data in the article may be accurate, the "spin" is evident. Example: the industry simultaneously griping about the burdens/impact of extensive testing while 3 paragraphs later patting itself on the back for that same extensive testing showing the herd to be safe (isn't that also a point of testing?).

Also, the $50,000, (then $750,000) "test cost per positive deer" and "estimated $25 million" impact on "hardworking families" is obviously "spin".

What has happened is that the taxpayers and breeding industry have spent about $3.50 per Texas hunter or about 9 cents per Texas citizen in its ongoing efforts to protect our state's deer herd and ensure the hunters/public are informed about rates of occurrence.

I'm glad the results have been good so far. I'm also glad the testing has/is being done so we can continue to know where we stand. My advice to the "industry": use the info for PR instead of griping about having to test. Because right now the PR battle isn't going so great for the "industry". (I would also quit calling it an "industry", but that's just me.)


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6780620 06/01/17 12:23 PM
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I may and have been known to be full of it but here is what I think is hurting the so called "Deer Breeding Industry" as much or maybe even more than CWD. I think it is what they have made WT Bucks look like. They no longer look like what they were say 20 years ago. They are no longer uniform in antler shape or points. There I believe is only a certain number of the hunting public that either wants to shoot or can afford to shoot one of these deer. And I believe that number is getting to that point. I have been contacted and have sold Ibex to people in the breeding business. Some are getting out because of the CWD scare has affected the number of Deer they sell to other ranches and there is no longer a profit in it. Some that raise for their own clients and those clients are no longer interested in shooting a 300" non typical Buck that everyone knows was pen raised. Everything eventually runs its course. And I believe this industry is getting close to it.

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6780627 06/01/17 12:29 PM
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^^^^ I believe you are spot on. It was never about hunting, but the head. When those who want them have the head(s), what's really left?


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6780721 06/01/17 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
^^^^ I believe you are spot on. It was never about hunting, but the head. When those who want them have the head(s), what's really left?


There is always more room on the wall. You are still killing things for the wall and are an active participant of the hunting "industry". It has been an industry long before breeding entered the picture, and will always be an industry.

The market will correct itself. It's a beautiful thing. But it needs to be determined by something other than a govt entity.

Last edited by therancher; 06/01/17 02:06 PM.

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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6780738 06/01/17 02:05 PM
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And Don, the folks that I know that have exited the breeding side of the industry are leaving it because the state is inconsistent and involved heavily in picking winners and creating losers. The market is shifting as you said, but it's still very strong.

All one has to do is look at the tpwd board to see why they have created and promoted the CWD scare.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6781006 06/01/17 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
And Don, the folks that I know that have exited the breeding side of the industry are leaving it because the state is inconsistent and involved heavily in picking winners and creating losers. The market is shifting as you said, but it's still very strong.

All one has to do is look at the tpwd board to see why they have created and promoted the CWD scare.
That is probably very true. What I am hearing is that the market is drying up for the "Non-Typical" type WT over 250". I have also heard from breeders that the money and time involved producing those types is not what it used to be and that marketing them is not as easy as it used to be. I still believe both the market drying up and CWD are equally to blame for the down turn. There are going to be those breeders that survive and those with smaller pockets that don't. The breeders that can breed large typical type WT Bucks in the coming years will do very good. The Non-Typical types not so good. Like you said there will always be a market for them but I don't believe it will be large enough for the amount of breeders there are now.

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6781036 06/01/17 06:40 PM
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Tell me about the board guys. What are they pushing and why?

Are they LF guys now? Breeders that want to drive others out? A mix?

I don't keep up with it anymore like I used to.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: don k] #6781047 06/01/17 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: therancher
And Don, the folks that I know that have exited the breeding side of the industry are leaving it because the state is inconsistent and involved heavily in picking winners and creating losers. The market is shifting as you said, but it's still very strong.

All one has to do is look at the tpwd board to see why they have created and promoted the CWD scare.
That is probably very true. What I am hearing is that the market is drying up for the "Non-Typical" type WT over 250". I have also heard from breeders that the money and time involved producing those types is not what it used to be and that marketing them is not as easy as it used to be. I still believe both the market drying up and CWD are equally to blame for the down turn. There are going to be those breeders that survive and those with smaller pockets that don't. The breeders that can breed large typical type WT Bucks in the coming years will do very good. The Non-Typical types not so good. Like you said there will always be a market for them but I don't believe it will be large enough for the amount of breeders there are now.


Absolutely the same thing I'm seeing and hearing.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6781050 06/01/17 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Tell me about the board guys. What are they pushing and why?

Are they LF guys now? Breeders that want to drive others out? A mix?

I don't keep up with it anymore like I used to.


Almost all either own or are tied closely to low fenced operations.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6781056 06/01/17 06:59 PM
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The market has definitely shifted from the large blob antlers to the huge mainframes. One just has to look at the $ to see that. The biggest money per animal is 300"+ mostly mainframes. The largest market is the 160-200" mostly mainframe.

There is a very small number of people who want a 400-500" blob.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: don k] #6781482 06/02/17 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: don k
I may and have been known to be full of it but here is what I think is hurting the so called "Deer Breeding Industry" as much or maybe even more than CWD. I think it is what they have made WT Bucks look like. They no longer look like what they were say 20 years ago. They are no longer uniform in antler shape or points. There I believe is only a certain number of the hunting public that either wants to shoot or can afford to shoot one of these deer. And I believe that number is getting to that point. I have been contacted and have sold Ibex to people in the breeding business. Some are getting out because of the CWD scare has affected the number of Deer they sell to other ranches and there is no longer a profit in it. Some that raise for their own clients and those clients are no longer interested in shooting a 300" non typical Buck that everyone knows was pen raised. Everything eventually runs its course. And I believe this industry is getting close to it.


I think most of us hope so. Making whitetail deer a farmed commodity is sad and not good for hunting.

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: txbobcat] #6781499 06/02/17 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: txbobcat
Originally Posted By: don k
I may and have been known to be full of it but here is what I think is hurting the so called "Deer Breeding Industry" as much or maybe even more than CWD. I think it is what they have made WT Bucks look like. They no longer look like what they were say 20 years ago. They are no longer uniform in antler shape or points. There I believe is only a certain number of the hunting public that either wants to shoot or can afford to shoot one of these deer. And I believe that number is getting to that point. I have been contacted and have sold Ibex to people in the breeding business. Some are getting out because of the CWD scare has affected the number of Deer they sell to other ranches and there is no longer a profit in it. Some that raise for their own clients and those clients are no longer interested in shooting a 300" non typical Buck that everyone knows was pen raised. Everything eventually runs its course. And I believe this industry is getting close to it.


I think most of us hope so. Making whitetail deer a farmed commodity is sad and not good for hunting.


Uhh. You do realize that you are speaking to a guy who is participating in "farming a commodity" for profit?..

Why is someone farming white tail sad? And not good for hunting?? Is anyone forcing you to do it?


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: txbobcat] #6781507 06/02/17 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: txbobcat
Originally Posted By: don k
I may and have been known to be full of it but here is what I think is hurting the so called "Deer Breeding Industry" as much or maybe even more than CWD. I think it is what they have made WT Bucks look like. They no longer look like what they were say 20 years ago. They are no longer uniform in antler shape or points. There I believe is only a certain number of the hunting public that either wants to shoot or can afford to shoot one of these deer. And I believe that number is getting to that point. I have been contacted and have sold Ibex to people in the breeding business. Some are getting out because of the CWD scare has affected the number of Deer they sell to other ranches and there is no longer a profit in it. Some that raise for their own clients and those clients are no longer interested in shooting a 300" non typical Buck that everyone knows was pen raised. Everything eventually runs its course. And I believe this industry is getting close to it.


I think most of us hope so. Making whitetail deer a farmed commodity is sad and not good for hunting.


The Most Successful wildlife program in the history of the world is farmed via restrictions, sex class limits, carrying capacity, value and habitat enhancements.

Welcome to the North American wildlife conservation(sustainablilty) model. You may not agree with the degree it's farmed presently but you will not agrue with its past adoption since it's why you have animals to hunt today.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: txbobcat] #6781514 06/02/17 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: txbobcat
Originally Posted By: don k
I may and have been known to be full of it but here is what I think is hurting the so called "Deer Breeding Industry" as much or maybe even more than CWD. I think it is what they have made WT Bucks look like. They no longer look like what they were say 20 years ago. They are no longer uniform in antler shape or points. There I believe is only a certain number of the hunting public that either wants to shoot or can afford to shoot one of these deer. And I believe that number is getting to that point. I have been contacted and have sold Ibex to people in the breeding business. Some are getting out because of the CWD scare has affected the number of Deer they sell to other ranches and there is no longer a profit in it. Some that raise for their own clients and those clients are no longer interested in shooting a 300" non typical Buck that everyone knows was pen raised. Everything eventually runs its course. And I believe this industry is getting close to it.


I think most of us hope so. Making whitetail deer a farmed commodity is sad and not good for hunting.


You can speak for yourself, not most of us.

Nothing sad about it. Axis deer have been farmed successfully for years for restaraunts. It doesn't make me sad or affect my hunting experience for axis. And it doesn't for white tail either.


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Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6781668 06/02/17 12:08 PM
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I don't think the "Farming" aspect of it is the problem. I think it is what the majority of the raised Bucks look like. It was unique at first to see Bucks with that amount of head gear. Now it is getting somewhat outlandish. Also seeing pictures of Bucks that were taken with ear tags still attached to the ears. A very good friend of mine who guides quit one ranch after having a chart of what each Buck on the ranch scored by looking at the number on the tag. When clients of the ranch were there to hunt he knew what size Buck they were allowed to take by the color of the tag. We that have hunters are all in a way farmers of the wildlife. But I do believe some of us are more ethical about it than others. Now lets see who's panties this gets in a wad.

Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: therancher] #6781684 06/02/17 12:31 PM
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I'm not in a wad anymore about it. I think the market is slowly playing itself out. It won't crash like the emu business but just slowly wither on the vine. Attitudes are changing - that's pretty evident everywhere you look. There will be a few in the "industry" that will survive to meet the needs/demand that will remain.

I do find it amusing the apparent need some have to "justify" it as some sort of highbrow conservation service/model. I'm pretty sure: 1)with a state wild population of 5 million+ TX whitetails are in no danger and 2)deer farming doesn't have squat to do with the North American Conservation Model. That's about like saying chicken broiler houses are a part of bringing the Bald Eagle back. smile

It is what it is. It will either survive or not based on demand.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: The current testing data on CWD. [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6781695 06/02/17 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
I'm not in a wad anymore about it. I think the market is slowly playing itself out. It won't crash like the emu business but just slowly wither on the vine. Attitudes are changing - that's pretty evident everywhere you look. There will be a few in the "industry" that will survive to meet the needs/demand that will remain.

I do find it amusing the apparent need some have to "justify" it as some sort of highbrow conservation service/model. I'm pretty sure: 1)with a state wild population of 5 million+ TX whitetails are in no danger and 2)deer farming doesn't have squat to do with the North American Conservation Model. That's about like saying chicken broiler houses are a part of bringing the Bald Eagle back. smile

It is what it is. It will either survive or not based on demand.


Has everything to do since white tails where reintroduce, so where elk, sheep, bison, turkeys etc.
Call it what you want but with out farming we wouldnt have animals to hunt, nor preserved populations to repopulate areas with.
The sheep facility at sierra diablo is pretty impressive. The elk pens in Kentucky pretty cool stuff also.

Game Animal wouldn't be what they are today with only game laws, they need more.

I won't even bring in habitat enhancement/cultivation since most fed land is frindge habitat


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