With the new powders we have now we can get 270 win velocity out of a 270-08. 130-150gr bullets have great terminal performance. I use 7mm-08 dies with a .277 expander ball. What do you guys think about 277 bullets?

They are ok but high bc bullets require much faster twist than most 270 style rifles have. Most of the popular long range 6.5mm and 7mm still have it beat in the bc area.

Most of us don't shoot hogs or deer past 300-400yds even in a field. Using thermal at night we use ARs and probably don't shoot past 150yds.

So you don't think wind effects a bullet in 300-400 yards? Most guys don't shoot high BC bullets worrying about their drops they do it to help with the wind holds. It even helps at those distances...could mean the difference between killing and missing for some cartridge/bullet combos.

Do you think there is that much difference at 3-400 yards? An old Sierra 150 has a BC of .483 at 2850MV
What kind of 6.5mm or 7mm bullet out of a 260 or 7mm-08 do you want to compare at 400 yards.

In comparison the 6.5 and 7mm will be over 600 on g1 bc. It's a decent difference.

Are you using match bullets to hunt with? Comparing the bullets I've been hunting with for 30 years to a 6.5 129gr LRX I have a difference of 2" at 400 yards using Litz's Applied Ballistics program, using a 10 MPH cross wind.
Berger makes what they call "hunting" VLDs so I can compare those. If I use a 6.5 140gr Berger hunting bullet and compare it to the same 150gr Sierra Gameking the difference is 3" at 400 yds.

Eld x is hunting bullet with a much higher bc.

I don't get hung up on bullet BCs too much since I'm not punching holes in paper anymore. I'm more interested in how they drop running or at least moving hogs since the only time I have seen them still is when they are sleeping. I'll take a 7mm over a 6.5 any day for hunting and inside of 300 I would rather have a 308 with 130gr MK319 bullets running close to 3000fps. Good thing we have plenty of choices.

Did you know a pig can move 44ft in 1 second? It takes a bullet going 2800fps .428 seconds to go 400yards. It takes a bullet going 3000fps .4 seconds to cover the same 400yds. A pig running flat out can cover 17ft in the time it takes a bullet to reach him at 400 yards. 8ft at 200yds, 4ft at 100yards.

Not sure how that is relevant to this post.

I will say I've shot plenty of pigs running and standing still from 20yds to 586yds. I've rarely seen a 30mph (44ft sec) run even when being chased in a open field by a motorised vehicle.

This thread has nothing to do with punching paper. I listed foot pounds of energy at every distance, BECAUSE it's not about punching paper.



So you're throwing the long action .270 in the mix to try and compete with the three short actions? So in a science experiment, you have to keep a constant. If you're going to go to a long action, we can too. The 6.5-284, 6.5-06, .284 Winchester, .280 Rem, .280 Rem A.I. All beat the .270.

And you're also sweating 28/100 of a second, as well as not mentioning wind. Again, half the values given in this thread were wind. Don't ignore them.

You mean wind matters at less than 400 yards?

Another thing to consider about energy isn't energy delivered on target, it's energy distributed TO the target. I'm not sure you can quantify it easily but a heavier, larger diameter bullet could be a bigger diameter when expanded, and being slower, would spend more time in the target. Larger area/more time could equal more energy passed to the surrounding tissue.

Zero doubt about it. That's why my steel gets missed, on my range, at EVERY distance. 200, 300, 400, and all the rest of em, to the end.

6.5 Creed and .260 are functionally the same in a bolt action rifle and the nod goes to the Creedmoor in the AR-10 platform correct?

On the money sir.

I have seen an AR-10 platform in .260, and it functioned fine.

Wow....great write up and info FJG. Just out of curiosity, where do you reckon the .270 WIN 130 gr. would fit in that group? What I've hunted deer with for years and seems to be getting more bad pub lately for some reason.

I just posed data from those three. I would have to run some numbers for the .270, same as I did for those. But in the case of the .270, I would put it up against other long actions, with the same bolt face. So 6.5 mm, .270, 7mm, and .30 cal. Depends on the job. In some cases, the .270 would win, in some cases, it would get the crap beat out if it.

If the .270 does the job, a person needs it to do, by all means keep on using it.

.270 WIN doesn't carry the energy to compare to 6.5 and 7mm....130VLD at 3000fps at 600 yards has 1030ftlbs of energy. A 7mm 175elite hunter at 2850fps has 1840ftlbs of energy almost double the energy. That's why its hard to compare .270, bullet manufactures don't make large enough .270 bullets to compete fairly with 7mm. Don't mistake the .270 being under powered by any means its more than enough to kill deer or pigs for the common hunting distance, I'm somewhat OCD as are some others on here and I like having the confidence and ability to make a 600+yd shot depending on wind conditions. If there's any variable that will error my shot it'll will be the wind, it'll getcha everytime if your not used to shooting in windy conditions.

IMO there should really be separate discussions when it comes to hunting cartridges:
1)Effectiveness (accuracy and energy) within 300-400 yards - the hunting distance maximums of most; and
2)Effectiveness (accuracy and energy) at long range (400+).

The list of effective hunting cartridges at normal hunting ranges would be extensive.
The list of the most effective long range hunting cartridges is much shorter.

The explosive growth and popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor has been an amazing thing to see. The poor little .260 Rem. sat around the wall for years with very few asking her to dance, while the Creed walked into the room, all eyes set upon her - and she is now the Belle of the Ball.

The data is cool. My quick takeaway is that it tells a very positive story on behalf of the 7mm-08 as a great "do all" cartridge.

And, as stated, the wind is always the biggest "X factor" at range. I'm just a hunter. Wayne Van Zwoll published a pretty good data filled article years ago on wind effects on some common hunting cartridges with similar ballistics. His data showed about 2" of "drift" at 200 yards with a full value 10 mph wind. That increased exponentially with additional distance - about 6" at 300 IIRC. Beyond 400 stuff I've perused shows wind to be an ever-increasing factor, especially with bullets not particularly designed/suited to perform at distance. Obviously all that above is just general stuff - but my takeaway is that dealing with wind is a big deal when it comes to accuracy at distance. Probably the biggest deal. If a game animal is at 500+ and there's any noticeable wind, most guys should probably lower their rifle and try to get closer.

I asked about a 270-08 which now with the new powders can produce as much velocity as factory 270 win velocity. I showed there is a 3" difference between a 6.5mm bullet and a .277 bullet in a 10mph cross at 400 yards. Compared that to how much a hog can move in that distance in the time it takes a bullet to get there. When a hog takes off running can you remember which way the wind is blowing and deduct or add the drift from the lead all in .4 seconds while keeping the hog in the scope?
A 260 Rem handloaded will produce 50-100fps more velocity than a Creedmoor when loaded to the same pressure. The 260 has more case volume and the Hornady Creedmoor cases can't handle the pressure that a 308/260 case will.
I've killed a big boat load of hogs since the mid 70s and I think I can say 95% of them were killed with bullets that had a BC of under .400.
I'm not arguing your numbers, I'm saying BC doesn't mean near as much as some thinks it does at normal hunting distances.
Everyone has an opinion and gets to choose what they want to hunt with. For the last 10 years my choice for hunting hogs is a bullet with a BC of .33 going 2900fps out of a 16" barreled AR. Mule deer and elk are a different story, longest shot I have ever taken at game was a touch over 500yds. 300 win mag 180gr Nosler. I've been bow hunting since I was a kid so I like to spot and stalk to see how close I can get even on speed goats.

Yes I can...

I shot the barrel out of a .260. It shot a 140 gr at 2800 fps out of a 24" barrel, with 43.3 gr H-4350 Any hotter, and it shot poorly. I shot the barrel out of a 6.5 Creedmoor. It shot a 140 gr at 2800 out of a 24" barrel, with 42.4 gr H-4350, any hotter and it shot poorly.

Yes the .260 will hold more powder, but that doesn't mean it does it any good.

Did someone say 270 numbers?

I just got done working up a load for my sons 270 using the 145 ELD-X. Rem 721 trued up and built by Mike Bryant with a 22" Hart barrel, shooting through a Sico Harvester. Load is 58.5 of H4831 for a velocity of 2925 fps. Corrected for my elevation, this is what Shooter is kicking out for data.

100 yards, .1 wind, 2464 fpe
200 yards, .1 wind, 2199 fpe
300 yards, .2 wind, 1954 fpe
400 yards, .3 wind, 1726 fpe
500 yards, .3 wind, 1519 fpe
600 yards, .4 wind, 1329 fpe
700 yards, .5 wind, 1158 fpe
800 yards, .6 wind, 1003 fpe
900 yards, .7 wind, 864 fpe
1000 yards, .8 wind, 740 fpe

I also just got done working up a load for my 6.5 Creedmoor. 22" barrel shooting through a Sico Omega, 143 ELD-X with 42.3 grains of H-4350 for a MV of 2710. Data for it, according to Shooter.

100 yards, .1 wind, 2094 fpe
200 yards, .1 wind, 1890 fpe
300 yards, .2 wind, 1703 fpe
400 yards, .2 wind, 1530 fpe
500 yards, .3 wind, 1371 fpe
600 yards, .4 wind, 1225 fpe
700 yards, .4 wind, 1091 fpe
800 yards, .5 wind, 967 fpe
900 yards, .6 wind, 856 fpe
1000 yards, .6 wind, 753 fpe



So, the 270 does hit harder in the first 600 yards, and does go ahead and carry the magical 1000 fpe a bit further than the Creed. But by 900 yards they are pretty much equal in the energy department, and the Creed is winning on wind drift. Basically if you want max energy at 600 and in, use the 270. For minimal wind drift at longer ranges and near equal energy, use the Creed.

Or if you like burning an extra 16 grains of powder, getting the additional recoil that goes with it, and all in a long action just so you can do pretty much the same thing, then the 270 is for you.

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