I had a customer that was in O.I.F. He said the soldiers and Marines called it "fanning". The enemy would look like they're wiping away a wasp when hit. Course this was beyond 300m where the 5.56 starts to get pretty whimpy.

Look in the archives of "American Rifleman" and there's an article titled "Taking back the half mile". Tells of M-14's coming out of storage to be pressed back into service. The Taliban learned if they fight from 400m + the 5.56mm hasn't got much whoop [censored] left. Sooo....they brought out the ole 7.62 X 51 to deal with it.

So what Texas Buckeye wrote is believable for me.

myth
I keep hearing antidotes of this, but I have yet to find a reliable source on it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a good round for hunting something that can shoot back.

In February 1969 my Company was almost overrun, I was the acting LT for 3rd Platoon, we had 2 M60s and about 22 men, so about 18 were feeding M16 ammo to the NVA, and the 2 machine gunners were feeding 7.62 NATO style rounds. I could watch the tracers and see them fall. At the same time I could see the NVA soldiers keep coming knowing that I had hit them at least once.

The M16 will kill, no doubt about it, was it designed to wound, no it was designed to stop the enemy. After the sun came up, we searched the dead, we found several NVA soldiers that had been hit a bunch of times but was still breathing. There were also many blood trails into the surrounding tree line.

The M16 is a great weapon, it has many great attributes, the main one, it is lighter than a M14, the ammo is lighter. The latter is a big factor when you are humping the boonies carrying 22 or 33 magazines. But if I had a choice and did not have to carry a lot of extra crap, I would take an M14 into combat before a M16 or the current issued weapon.

Thank you for sharing that DC.

I'll see if I can dig up my veteran customer's information. I'll send you his contact info, if he approves, and you can call him a liar yourself.

Nice "sniper rifle" jeffbird! AI AE???

Thank you for sharing, sir.

I've thought for years, if "they" wanted to send me to war with 200 pounds of ammo. I'll take 7.62mm please. I promise to make every one count.

Launched about 14 of em about 1 1/2 hours ago, 300 to 700 yards, in this big wind, and out of an AR type rifle. Yup, they still work.

I don't argue that it may be myth, but I was a military physician. It was told to me during my military medical training and both times I qualified on the weapon (expert marksman btw but never wore the ribbon).

I can't tell you for sure if the myth is true or not, but I do know the weapon will kill. If it is a myth, it is being propagated by the military itself, probably as a testament to its weak wounding nature at distance. Very few engagements these days are at close quarters, most are hundred of yards away. There are definitely exceptions to that and certain campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan were certainly close quarter combat situations. Again, don't jump on le for that statement.

I can tell you I saw plenty of wounds from all manner of calibers when I was in Iraq (again, as a military surgeon) and saw plenty that didn't kill. We ever had an guy come in with a sniper bullet (prob .308 but I don't know for sure, but it was an American sniper that shot the dude) that lodged between the bifurcation of the carotid artery and was just resting nicely there. Shot placement helps, but it wasn't that guy's day to die. The sniper then walked over 400 yards to go pick up the guy and bring him back to safety so a medevac cold get him and bring him in. Sniper said the guy was swearing at him and giving him the finger the whole time. True story. Got plenty more, but that's another day.

I respect that. I wish a lot more hunters would practice from real situations and not just from the bench. Your not always in a box blind with a sand bag on a window sill. That goes for any type of hunter. Bow hunters too will often not realize they are shooting a little different when sitting in a chair and not standing. I see it happen a lot and they miss if their posture changes.

AI AW.

Thank you.

Thank you sir!! I am sure you saw some stuff that most of us only have nightmares about. Thanks for making it home and being able to tell the stories.

I read a lot of story's about the lurps ( long range reconnaissance patrols)


Those were some bad arse mofo's for sure

Sometimes I laugh when I see things like this, when I was wounded it was the day Tet Offensive of 1969 started. I was shot in the chin, when I was medivaced to Ben Hoa, the other 3 WIA, my RTO, my NCO and point man were in a lot worse shape. I was ambulatory, as I bailed off in Ben Hoa a medic grabbed and lead me off, I protested, I wanted to go with my men. But he took me to a Dentist, which happened to be the brother of the medivac pilot. The Dentist looked in my mouth and said okay, shot me with deadener in the chin and sewed up the gunshot wound. 36 hours later I was sipping cold beer in the NCO club at Camp Drake Japan. 4 weeks later I was inbound back to my unit.

I love my ARs.

There is no rhyme or reason to death blows in combat, as I am sure you are fully aware. Had a guy come in unresponsive. his buddies (marines) said they were all standing around talking outside their hooches and this guy just passes out, they can't get him awake. He comes in to the hospital - Breathing and heart rate but unresponsive - CT showed a bullet entered on top of skull and bounced around in his head a few times. Neurosurgeons said that since it crossed the midline he wasn't ever going to wake up.

So sad, they never even heard the gunshot. Only thing we all could figure is someone was shooting in the air in celebration or something from a long way away, the trajectory was not straight down, it was about a 30 degree angle from Top to bottom of path.

Your story is much the same, only for the better.

Much respect.

I'll see if I can dig up my veteran customer's information. I'll send you his contact info, if he approves, and you can call him a liar yourself. [/quote]

Changed my mind. After that suggestion, you're not worth my time.

Edit to add. I could listen to yalls stories all day.

D.C. thanks for sharing and for being a bad [censored] mofo! I appreciate it and so do my kids!

Back on topic. Ar hunters are a stereotype. We all judge people based on first impressions. Shallow people can't get beyond the stereotype. I'm sorry to say but if you shown up in a deer camp with an ar and tactical pants you will be stereotyped same as the guy that shows up with an uber mag and starts bragging on it.

I've taken ribbing about my pants before, I don't wear blue jeans when I hunt as I read deer see blue particularly well. They have to have something to give me stuff about, but they can't say I don't get on plenty of deer. So stereotype at your own peril, and when choosing a guide, look at more than his pants...

So you have never judge anyone before you got to know them? Like i said shallow people can not get past a sterotype. I didn't say anything about choosing a guide. It's human nature to start forming an opinion as soon as we see someone. It sucks but it's true.

Sure I have. As I said earlier in this thread, I'm as guilty of it as anyone. But I try to be better today than I was yesterday, and I have been shown on many occasions that my first impression was wrong. It's teaching me to be more open, and to listen as much as I look. Seem to learn more that way.

Oh, and I was just being (apparently not very) funny about the pants...although I have listened to plenty of BS about "safari pants".

Depending on the day i could fit most of the stereotypes people have listed. I grab the gun that fits my mood. Some days that may include an ar mag dump just because. Im the guy that will put multiple holes in my pray if it's still standing even if i know the first shot was fatal. Better blood tails and less tracking. Ar, bolt, lever, or single shot doesn't matter.

Wendy O. Williams...... 6 Pages

Not shallow at all. A decision based on a high probability from experience. It is not shallow because a range has to change their rules for safety sake and build unrealistic berms and barricades to contain bullets. Or having the cops called because the ranch 1 mile way has bullets zinging by, not shallow. A rancher with a dead cow right after the night time AR pigs hunters came through, not shallow, expensive.
The problem with this thread is that there are a lot of AR hunters that are responsible out there. And they all want to give their spill about how safe and responsible they are (I get it, I AR hunt too), and try to defend the masses with their story of the bolt gun guy that swung a muzzle their way, or the big caliber guy that couldn't hit crap.
ARs are here to stay, 75% or more of all rifle racks at the gun shops are black guns. Everyone needs to learn some safety and responsibility, not just the AR guys.