I've never been at the range when someone was trying to play Rambo with a semi-automatic that wasn't an AR style firearm. They are without question, a primary toy for men who never grew up.

It's because they are black, isn't it?

If one can read, it points out in this thread there are numerous examples landowners and guides have had crappy experiences with bolt gun hunters and their magnum rifles....and have the same low opinions counselor.

Some people are just scared of black rifles.

I don't understand. Are you saying that you've been to a range where people were playing Rambo? like rolling around in the dirt and jumping out of trees? And when they did it with a semi-auto it was an AR? What did they use when they used a bolt gun? And what is a "primary toy"? And is it really without question? There's not even a chance that they are something other than a "primary toy"? I'm sure these answers are obvious to everyone, and I'm just slow this morning, but I really am clueless on this post.

I went to range that had to make a "no rapid fire rule" and even went as far to put up railroad ties to shoot between because of knuckleheads that would stand and spray at pray at 100 yard targets. They finally closed the 200 yard range because guys with ARs would stand and freehand at the backstop in the distance. Knucklesheads.

Ok, on the rapid fire thing. I'm an avid predator hunter. It's a type of hunting that sometimes calls for pretty quick 2nd and 3rd shots, sometimes more. I believe strongly in proficiency, so I practice taking a shot, and as quickly as I can getting back on target, or transitioning to a second target, and delivering an accurate shot, then do it again. Sometimes if the range is pretty quiet, and the RO gives the go ahead I will even do it from a seated position on the ground off shooting sticks. It would be easy for grouchy old hunter to show up and say: "look at this yahoo playing Rambo with his rapid fire", when what I'm actually doing is responsibly honing a skill that is relevant to the hunting I'm doing.

You would be welcome to do that at my range, because you are right.

We also have the no rapid fire rule. Two of the guys kicked out of our gun club were warned twice. They weren't practicing a rapid follow-up shot. They were emptying their magazine. After the third time (on different days) being busted by the range master, their access was cut off. The third guy was repeatedly shooting a flag pole to see if he could cut it down. Not only was he kicked out, but the club filed a report with the sheriff's office for vandalism.

In about 15 years of guiding, I've taken a gun away from a hunter twice for muzzling me repeatedly despite at first polite reminders, both had bolt guns. A guy I've guided with had a hunter take a rest on the bed rail of his truck, and shoot through the other bed rail, he had a bolt gun. There is a hole in the roof of one of the Rangers on a ranch I guide on...bolt gun. You can keep trying to make it about the gun all you want, but I have enough real world experience to know better.

Compadre, I have no problem with AR's. I have no problem with the owners of AR's. My point is, there are a few jackasses that have been playing too much Call of Duty. That is the "special type of person" that was referenced by another on page 1 of this thread. They give the rest of yall a bad name. If you want to get butthurt at someone, get butthurt at them.

Yeah, because I quoted your post, I guess that seems sort of directed at you, but was intended more towards the attitude that AR's are indicative of Summer's Eve/Masssengill syndrome. I'm just trying to point out that the syndrome isn't limited to, or even dominated by AR guys (of which I don't really consider myself one of, just find it a useful tool for predator hunting). My bad in appearing to address that directly at you bud.

BTW, I like the "Summer's Eve/Masssengill syndrome". I may steal that in the future!

There's some truth in that. Personally my AR's serve two purposes. #1) pig hunting/eradication work. #2) Have one dedicated as a SHTF gun. I don't care what someone hunts with as long as they are handling their weapon safely and are proficient with it. I get the cool tacticool factor that apeals to many (I'm old school myself). I work with a few guys that have tacticool gun collections that you wouldn't believe, to each their own. As a life long hunter and ex guide myself believe me I have seen MANY people with large caliber bolt guns that they were not proficient or safe with, resulting in many hours and late nights for me trailing wounded deer...while the guy with the "not sufficient" caliber rifle has another deer on ice/or in walk in and is sitting around the campfire already. A lot of judgemental people around here. Very quick to stereotype someone because of the type of gun they hunt with, caliber, shot placement, distance, brand of cooler they use, what their truck looks like, what kind of dog they have, if they carry a sidearm, tattoos, the list goes on...some on here just (the same few most of the time) simply cannot get it through their thick skull that often times people do things differently than you, successfully, and consistently. I no longer take my kids to the range I grew up on on the weekends because of too many idiots. Time before last - old man sent one down range with a bolt gun @ the 200 yard mound, while a young man was stapling his target @ the 100. Last time, sitting in my truck with my teenagers waiting for a table to open up. Had table full of young men with AR's and AK's. One young man was having trouble cycling his loaded AR and turned around in his chair pointing the damn thing right at us. Yes he got a toungue lashing, and we left. Stereotype and judge all you want, but dum dums come in all flavors.

I've had people offer me money to put clothes on at deer camp

AR's are not my cup of tea, but if AR's get more young men and women interested in shooting and hunting, I'm all for it.

What is really good about the AR ban debate is that it is teaching a generation about the dangers of the unchecked powers of a government vs. its citizens.

If they do not have great shooting and safety skills, help teach them instead of sitting around criticizing.

Personally, I could care less what someone uses to hunt as long as they are safe, and are conscious of making humane shots that drop the animal without suffering.

This last factor means actually learning how to shoot and then practicing, which is uncommon for the vast majority of hunters.

Most hunters I see are way overgunned, way undereducated about how to shoot, and way way underpracticed.

Never fails to amaze me that women and kids can reliably drop deer and pigs with a 243 (not so sure about 223, but that is a different dialogue), yet grown men need the latest 300 Uber Mega Mag with zombie stomper ultra terminal tactical death ray bullets.

To me, hunting should be done with respect for the animal, humanely striving to avoid the animal suffering, and remaining mindful that it is taking life.

Whatever tools help the hunter best achieve those goals, I'm all for regardless of what it looks like.

To the deer on the receiving end, it matters not whether the bullet comes from a rifle with fancy wood or plastic for a stock.

To the deer, the best he can hope for is an instant flip of the switch from this life to the next.

The person with a mega mag flinging lead without really practicing is worse than someone who can proficiently put a bullet into the brain from an AR or "sniper rifle." I include "sniper rifle" because I've heard similar comments about my preferred bolt rifle which has a synthetic stock and Nightforce scope. I have fancy wood too, but the workhorse is the one that actually goes hunting.

I've been shot. It is a very unpleasant experience and feels like being hit by two NFL linebackers and then burns like being on fire.

No animal deserves to go through that experience. They surely don't have a team of doctors on standby waiting to help.

I strive to drop an animal where it stands with a CNS shot whenever possible, or a high shoulder shot when a CNS cannot be assured.

What matters is proficiency in producing DRT results. That only comes through practice.

Hunters who shoot off a lead sled once a year bother me far more than someone with an AR that practices regularly.

Conversely, some jackass spraying a mag at a sounder of pigs ought to be beaten with his rifle for causing animals to suffer.

The result is what matters. The tool only matters to the extent it enables the hunter to reliably produce a humane kill. And, it is killing, taking life, not harvesting ears of corn in a field.

We must remain mindful and respectful of what we are doing. There are times when taking life is justified, whether animals or humans, but it remains the taking of life. Whether using a fancy wood rifle or a plastic AR, it still is taking life.

Just my perspective.

My fancy wood 30-06.



Not an AR, but in the same vein in the eyes of some. 308 with 175 SMK's.

I was you jeffbird, until I saw that MOA scope.

One thing that I don't think was mentioned in all this (sorry couldn't wade through all the crap
On pages 4-7 on here about the redneck stereotyping and stuff)....

The 5.56 was not adopted by the us military as a killing machine. It was adopted as a sounding machine. You kill a man and it just takes one person out of the fight. You wound a man and it takes 2-4 guys out of the fight.

I have no problem with someone using a different caliber AR style gun for deer hunting, but make sure the round and the bullet match what you are wanting to do with it. Don't bring a man-wounding gun to a big game party.


Now, before I get beat up, I realize the 5.56 fmj rounds used are not hunting rounds, but still, the weapon wasn't designed to kill as much as maim, and in hunting we want to kill cleanly and not maim our prey.

Maybe if they came with wood stocks everyone would be happy.

I have seen a couple, both were handmade out of Turkish walnut by the same woodcarver. He isn't a gunsmith or a gunstock maker, but a woodcarver, these were his own personal weapons.

Got reliable source oor this myth?

It isn't a myth, I heard the same thing in 1968 at FT Benning.

Has anyone said "it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian" yet?

Let's not spoil it.