texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
HUNTIN HARD, ultra trail, Gmac4th, DJAYONE, ltong29
72193 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,820
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,696
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 44,359
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics539,891
Posts9,755,389
Members87,193
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures #6727632 04/06/17 09:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
My latest project for custom load work up is a custom 7 Rem Mag, Big Horn Action, custom stock with carbon fiber barrel pushing the 180 grain Berger VLD-Hunting bullets. The barrel is threaded for a suppressor, but my customer is still waiting on his can. So, I completed the load work up with my suppressor on his rifle. When doing a load work up and the rifle will be shot suppressed, the loads need to be worked up suppressed, so mine will fill the need just fine. Since this is a precision rifle, I want to test for groups at 200 yards with 2" shoot N see's.

First trip to the range last week and the first load tested, Load A (middle group) running 2764 avg fps and 12 ES (extreme spread). Right out of the gate, it shot a 3/4" group at 200 yards. What a first group!!! I knew we had a good rifle right off. I just needed to pick up the speed a little bit with the 180 grain VLD-H. Load B, C, D, and E didn't impress, and I knew I needed more speed to be in the 2900-2950 fps range for the next accuracy node. Fast forward to today- range trip #2 (see below).



Second outing today 4/6- since the groups weren't that impressive for Loads B, C, D, and E, I went ahead and put 2 wet patches down the barrel before I shot, followed by multiple dry patches to dry it out. First group, Load F, had a clean, cold bore shot (CCB) labeled top left. After the first shot, the next 4 shot right at 1" at 200 yards at 2890 fps and 23 ES (all 5 shots). Not bad at all. Let the barrel cool 15 minutes, and shoot Load G. Load G stacks them in there, sub 1" at 200 yards!!! 4 rounds in this groups with 2913 fps avg and 36 ES. That's what I was looking for! Loads H and I open up. I think Load G is our load! Load A would work well also, but I think we'll take the extra 149 fps and keep the good groups.




While I was letting the 7 Mag cool, for poops and giggles, I shot some of my 308 Winchester BULK 168 A-max ammo out to 700. I started at 600, and made 8 shots. First cold bore shot was just right off the plate. I made my wind correction and sent 7 rounds down range. 4.5 mils come-up and .6 mil wind hold. The first 6 rounds went into a nice cluster low right on the plate. The 7th and last round, the wind pushed me left. The first 6 rounds is in about a 5" group at 600 yards (plate is 2 moa at 600, so 12"). Not bad at all for $0.82 a round! I plinked with it out to 700 yards tagging the 1 moa and 2 moa plates there also (5.8 mils come-up). This ammo runs 2690 fps in my Surgeon rifle. This is the ammo I plink with the most in my 308. It's a lot of fun to shoot! And at $0.82 a round, it's easy on the wallet!



[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6727767 04/06/17 11:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
C
colt45-90 Offline
Texas colt45
Offline
Texas colt45
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
cheers


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728148 04/07/17 06:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,820
dogcatcher Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,820
up


Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________

[Linked Image]
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728157 04/07/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,564
B
BayouGuy Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,564
That sir, is some mighty fine shooting.


If you can't laugh at yourself, give me a call. I'll gladly laugh at you.

"I keep trying to see Nancy Pelosi's and Chuck Schumer's point of view,
but I can't seem to get my head that far up my [censored]." Senator John Kennedy, Louisiana
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728183 04/07/17 11:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 44,359
S
Stub Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
S
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 44,359
rifle up


texas flag

“I never forget a face—but in your case, I’ll be glad to make an exception.”
—Groucho Marx








Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728188 04/07/17 11:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,108
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,108
Wow that's incredible at that distance, well done sir! up


A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728305 04/07/17 01:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,151
A
Always ready 2 hunt Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
A
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,151
Very nice and informative. up

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728386 04/07/17 02:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 227
H
HuntinForTail Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
H
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 227
Thanks for taking us through the shot testing. This is very cool.

Can you educate me on what ES means?

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: BayouGuy] #6728406 04/07/17 03:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,234
janie Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,234
Originally Posted By: BayouGuy
That sir, is some mighty fine shooting.



Yes it is. Excellent. up


He is your friend defender your dog. Be worthy of such devotion

[Linked Image]
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: HuntinForTail] #6728409 04/07/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
Originally Posted by HuntinForTail
Can you educate me on what ES means?


Sure. ES is the extreme spread from the fastest to the slowest round in the shot string. For example, Load A shot very tight, and had a 12 fps extreme spread on all 4 shots. So there is only a 12 fps difference from the fastest to slowest all 4 rounds, which is VERY consistent. If you look at Load G, there is a 36 ES. I like to see about 20-25 fps ES. I didn't look at each shot on the chronograph on this group to see if one round caused the higher than normal ES. Most likely one round was higher or lower than the other 3. But the group being tight and knowing I needed to get the speeds in the 2900-2950 area for the next node was my goal. You can see all groups tested are in the 20's or less ES, except Load G, which may have an outlier round.

When you have a precision rifle with high end scope that is capable of very tight groups at long ranges, you want to feed the rifle good ammo that is tuned to the gun and is loaded in a manner that allows for tight tolerances. When loading my match grade ammo, I am throwing the powder charges accurate to .02 grains, which is to the kernel of powder (see video below). This keeps the ammo very consistent and provides a low ES. When you shoot at longer ranges, 600 yards +, and your ammo has a high ES, you will begin to see vertical groups. The vertical groups are simply due to different speeds of each round and one going faster than the other, causing a high or low impact (vertical groups). Having a tight ES allows the ammo to be consistent enough to be spot on target at longer ranges.

Here's a YouTube video I made to show the tight tolerances of my scales. All my match and hunting ammo is loaded single stage weighing the powder out to .02 grains. My BULK and 300 blk out ammo is not loaded this way, which are done on progressive presses.



[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728410 04/07/17 03:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
Thank you, guys! And gal!!!


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728417 04/07/17 03:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
Also, here is a picture of my typical set up at the range. The first berm is at 100 yards used for zero'ing and getting on target. The second berm to the right is the 200 yard berm where I do most of my group shooting. The orange square object is my Lab Radar chronograph, which tells me the bullet speed on each shot. It is the coolest tool I own. It is a Doppler Radar chronograph, like they use for weather and long range tracking of bullets. It picks up the bullet about 4-8 feet in front of the muzzle.



[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728432 04/07/17 03:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,443
C
Choctaw Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,443
Wow, very cool!

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728521 04/07/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,662
H
heredeer Online Content
Pro Tracker
Online Content
Pro Tracker
H
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,662
aim

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: Choctaw] #6728612 04/07/17 06:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,245
Bee'z Offline
The Beedazzler
Offline
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,245
Originally Posted By: Choctaw
Wow, very cool!


cheers


[Linked Image]
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: Bee'z] #6728619 04/07/17 06:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,810
E
elcasador Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
E
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,810
Originally Posted By: 2Beez
Originally Posted By: Choctaw
Wow, very cool!


cheers

up

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6728679 04/07/17 07:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
C
colt45-90 Offline
Texas colt45
Offline
Texas colt45
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
thanks for sharing


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: Stub] #6729536 04/08/17 11:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,807
D
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,807
Originally Posted By: colt45
cheers
Originally Posted By: dogcatcher
up
Originally Posted By: Stub
rifle up

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: janie] #6729897 04/09/17 02:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,426
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,426
Originally Posted By: janie
Originally Posted By: BayouGuy
That sir, is some mighty fine shooting.



Yes it is. Excellent. up


Meh.








peep


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6730671 04/10/17 01:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 227
H
HuntinForTail Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
H
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 227
Thanks for explaining that! Awesome work.

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6732749 04/12/17 02:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,006
You're welcome!!


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6732761 04/12/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,890
H
HuntnFly67 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
H
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,890
Good read, Chad. Had no idea of the science behind your work; very cool.

I am still trying to get through an early run of your 168 A-Maxes and am very happy with their performance in the field.

Re: 600 yard group and Custom load work up pictures [Re: ChadTRG42] #6751168 05/01/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,103
pertnear Online Content
"Demolition Man"
Online Content
"Demolition Man"
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,103
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
....The orange square object is my Lab Radar chronograph, which tells me the bullet speed on each shot. It is the coolest tool I own. It is a Doppler Radar chronograph, like they use for weather and long range tracking of bullets. It picks up the bullet about 4-8 feet in front of the muzzle.

WOW - what a chronograph! Where do you get those & I assume they are a little more costly than a Chrony!

I've read & studied benchrest shooters a lot trying to unlock some of their secrets on how they shoot almost unmeasurable groups at 100 to 200yds. Many weigh but many more claim that powder volume is more important than powder weight. Of course the two are related & weight predicts the volume. Also, it seems most have very little concern about velocity ES. Your explanation make perfect sense especially how it would be more obvious & thus more important in long range shooting. Thanks for a very informative post - very interesting!


"If some of our teenage thrill seekers really want to go out and get a thrill. Let them go up into the north west and let them tangle with a Grizzly bear or Polar bear or brown bear and get that effect that will cleanse the soul" - Fred Bear
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3