Your welcome. If you ever need help with this just let me know.

I'm not on one extreme side or the other. And I don't think Bobo and therancher are. I'm for using common sense to address this disease. Flounder on the other hand, is extreme in his viewpoint and solution to this disease. His solution is to kill all the deer and start over again.

There are other extreme examples in this thread. Organizations that also want to make a living off this disease. TFaCB referenced one as a great information source. They take the extreme view of blaming this disease on deer farms and high fenced ranches. If we use common sense and consider facts like TPWD has high fenced ranches that have been managing and studying Whitetails for over 30 years with no outbreaks of CWD, their view is extreme based on facts we know to be true. Visit the site he referenced and see for yourself. Notice that their end game is FUNDING for their cause.

Another extreme action was the way TPWD managed this problem. They followed extreme management practices that have failed in other states. They slaughtered hundreds of deer and we still see positive tests for CWD in free ranging deer hundreds of miles away from the ranches they killed all those deer on.

You can call me extreme for calling out all the extremist reactions and orginizations like I just mentioned if that's how you see it. I'll own it and be quite fine with the label.

All I know is that Texas is on the banned list in Alabama. Rules out me deer hunting on my old place.

I only see one extreme.....

And it's not my view, it can't be extreme if it mirrors the vast majority of states with a tenured CWD history.

The only thing I disagree with PP on is that "tpwd has killed 'hundreds' of deer". Tpwd has killed well into the thousands now and are still hellbent to kill many thousands more.

They just killed 50 of a friends deer to test. He is one of hundreds who are getting out of the breeding business now. In order to do that tpwd kills and tests a large number of your deer before you can open your pens.

As far as "extreme", I don't think it's "extreme" to question BS like this is "an easily spread virulent disease that will devastate deer populations", when the facts on the ground in all the states that have had CWD for up to 50+ years, completely contradict that statement.

Bad business practice if TP&W kills 50 deer and reports that none tested positive for CWD, no matter the true results of the testing.

this is what happens when politics and industry supersedes sound science. when greed and money is the name of the game. when you flounder with the cwd tse prion, and delay for politics and the almighty dollar, this is what can happen;

For Immediate Release Thursday, October 2, 2014

Dustin Vande Hoef 515/281-3375 or 515/326-1616 (cell) or Dustin.VandeHoef@IowaAgriculture.gov

*** TEST RESULTS FROM CAPTIVE DEER HERD WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE RELEASED 79.8 percent of the deer tested positive for the disease ***

DES MOINES – The Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship today announced that the test results from the depopulation of a quarantined captive deer herd in north-central Iowa showed that 284 of the 356 deer, or 79.8% of the herd, tested positive for Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD).

http://www.iowaagriculture.gov/press/2014press/press10022014.asp

*** see history of this CWD blunder here ;

http://www.iowadnr.gov/Portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/070313_consent_order.pdf

On June 5, 2013, DNR conducted a fence inspection, after gaining approval from surrounding landowners, and confirmed that the fenced had been cut or removed in at least four separate locations; that the fence had degraded and was failing to maintain the enclosure around the Quarantined Premises in at least one area; that at least three gates had been opened;and that deer tracks were visible in and around one of the open areas in the sand on both sides of the fence, evidencing movement of deer into the Quarantined Premises.

http://www.iowadnr.gov/Portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/060613_consent_order.pdf

***79.8 percent of the deer tested positive for the disease ***

***test results from the depopulation of a quarantined captive deer herd in north-central Iowa showed that 284 of the 356 deer, or 79.8% of the herd, tested positive for Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). ***

For Immediate Release

Thursday, October 2, 2014

Dustin Vande Hoef 515/281-3375 or 515/326-1616 (cell) or Dustin.VandeHoef@IowaAgriculture.gov Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on email Share on print More Sharing Services 1

TEST RESULTS FROM CAPTIVE DEER HERD WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE RELEASED 79.8 percent of the deer tested positive for the disease

DES MOINES – The Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship today announced that the test results from the depopulation of a quarantined captive deer herd in north-central Iowa showed that 284 of the 356 deer, or 79.8% of the herd, tested positive for Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). The owners of the quarantined herd have entered into a fence maintenance agreement with the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship, which requires the owners to maintain the 8’ foot perimeter fence around the herd premises for five years after the depopulation was complete and the premises had been cleaned and disinfected

CWD is a progressive, fatal, degenerative neurological disease of farmed and free-ranging deer, elk, and moose. There is no known treatment or vaccine for CWD. CWD is not a disease that affects humans.

On July 18, 2012, USDA Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service’s (APHIS) National Veterinary Services Lab in Ames, IA confirmed that a male white tail deer harvested from a hunting preserve in southeast IA was positive for CWD. An investigation revealed that this animal had just been introduced into the hunting preserve from the above-referenced captive deer herd in north-central Iowa.

The captive deer herd was immediately quarantined to prevent the spread of CWD. The herd has remained in quarantine until its depopulation on August 25 to 27, 2014.

The Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship participated in a joint operation to depopulate the infected herd with USDA Veterinary Services, which was the lead agency, and USDA Wildlife Services.

Federal indemnity funding became available in 2014. USDA APHIS appraised the captive deer herd of 376 animals at that time, which was before depopulation and testing, at $1,354,250. At that time a herd plan was developed with the owners and officials from USDA and the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship.

Once the depopulation was complete and the premises had been cleaned and disinfected, indemnity of $917,100.00 from the USDA has been or will be paid to the owners as compensation for the 356 captive deer depopulated.

The Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship operates a voluntary CWD program for farms that sell live animals. Currently 145 Iowa farms participate in the voluntary program. The above-referenced captive deer facility left the voluntary CWD program prior to the discovery of the disease as they had stopped selling live animals. All deer harvested in a hunting preserve must be tested for CWD.

-30-

http://www.iowaagriculture.gov/press/2014press/press10022014.asp

*** Federal indemnity funding became available in 2014. USDA APHIS appraised the captive deer herd of 376 animals at that time, which was before depopulation and testing, at $1,354,250.

*** At that time a herd plan was developed with the owners and officials from USDA and the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship.

*** Once the depopulation was complete and the premises had been cleaned and disinfected, indemnity of $917,100.00 from the USDA has been or will be paid to the owners as compensation for the 356 captive deer depopulated.

SEE A FEW OF WISCONSIN CWD ENTITLEMENT PAYOUTS TO CAPTIVE OWNERS ;

$298,770 + $465,000

Sunday, January 17, 2016

Wisconsin Captive CWD Lotto Pays Out Again indemnity payment of $298,770 for 228 white-tailed deer killed on farm

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2016/01/wisconsin-captive-cwd-lotto-pays-out.html

the tse prion aka mad cow type disease is not your normal pathogen.

The TSE prion disease survives ashing to 600 degrees celsius, that’s around 1112 degrees farenheit.

you cannot cook the TSE prion disease out of meat.

you can take the ash and mix it with saline and inject that ash into a mouse, and the mouse will go down with TSE.

Prion Infected Meat-and-Bone Meal Is Still Infectious after Biodiesel Production as well.

the TSE prion agent also survives Simulated Wastewater Treatment Processes.

IN fact, you should also know that the TSE Prion agent will survive in the environment for years, if not decades.

you can bury it and it will not go away.

The TSE agent is capable of infected your water table i.e. Detection of protease-resistant cervid prion protein in water from a CWD-endemic area.

it’s not your ordinary pathogen you can just cook it out and be done with.

that’s what’s so worrisome about Iatrogenic mode of transmission, a simple autoclave will not kill this TSE prion agent.

kind regards, terry

That's just a % of deer they kill at each location when a breeder is trying to get out of the business. That's a SMALL fraction of the deer killed by tpwd over the past couple of years. ALL breeders were required by tpwd to kill another % to achieve preferred status.

So, terry posts a bunch of gobbledygook goop that says ". CWD is not a disease that affects humans". Then goes on to imply that it does...

Terry terry terry....

Been living and hunting in it's epicenter here in Wyoming. It does very much affect the older age class deer, it is always fatal if symptoms are present, research here has not shown if animals can be carriers but not display symptoms of the disease. We see if all the time, manage a 10,000 acre ranch. Older age class of deer are definitely affected, however we still see and harvest older aged deer, up to 8 1/2 years old.
Culling will not help the spread, it stays in the environment, the ground and recently found in plant matter.
We have been harvesting and eating deer and elk for many years in the area and do not get them tested. We do not harvest sick animals, you can tell when they get really "sick".
As far as no known human case I personally know of one person in Colorado who died from variant CJD many years back and the governor himself made a family visit to ask them not to bring up CWD in his death. They covered it up because evidence was there he may have had CWD type CJD. He only ate game meat, exclusively.
Don't panic but don't right it off. It will not decimate deer herds but definitely affect the population. You will know it if you see an animal with "wasters". We call G&F and they come put them down.

To disregard CWD as a problem is an extreme position. It's probably not the falling sky that some fret about, but there are aspects to it that are a real cause for concern, aspects that aren't present in other diseases. Like the fact that the infectious prions are so durable, heat doesn't kill them, ultraviolet doesn't kill them, they persist in the soil for an unusually long time, bind to it, and even show up in plants that grow from it. Seems like it can be transported through carrion feeders and remain viable...it's some hearty stuff, meaning that once it's here, it's likely here to stay.

As for transmission to humans, well thankfully everything points to that not being the case, but we can't forget that BSE was said to be non-transmissable until it was, not something to take too lightly for me anyway, others can obviously do as they please.

therancher's friend losing 50 head to testing is obviously not cool, but that number without context is hard to understand. If they are killing 40% of a herd, that seems unreasonable as heck, but if they are killing 15% of a herd for testing, (given that prevalence in wild infected herds seems to hover around 13% according to some research), that doesn't seem so unreasonable and may even be prudent before release. Don't forget that during the BSE scare somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 million cattle were destroyed.

It seems like we are probably going to be stuck with CWD and whatever comes with it no matter what now, some common sense precautions, and measures to slow it's spread don't seem unreasonable to me, but then again I'm not trying to derive income from farming deer.

Who has disregarded it as a problem in this thread?

It's been said "why be nervous about it?" Some don't give 2 rat's butts about positives being found, it's been said to be no worse than a drought. Might be nobody said "it's not a problem, but there are clearly those who view it as maybe a bit more than an inconvenience. Maybe I misread their stance, but it seems pretty consistent to me.

BOBO and therancher have both clearly disregarded it as an issue to be concerned or do anything about on this thread.

CLEARLY I said let's do same thing NM, KS, OK, CO, NB, Wy and ID are doing. Monitor and not jump to conclusions and/or go on a TPWD execution type approach...

If ground zero isn't freaking out maybe we shouldnt either but that wouldn't fit the Nogalus Prairie/TWPD agenda...

Nogalus Prairie And TPWD are one step a away from going on a flounder type cleansing/eradication program

I'm actually not freaked out about it. But obviously a lot of smart folks think there is more to be done than "monitor" and let it take whatever course it wants to take. I doubt they are all wrong.

CWD is way down on the list of my reasons for disliking HF. I am not an expert on the subject.

So do you agree or disagree with CO, NM, KS, ID, Wy etc approach

Bobo you keep insinuating that because we've known about the disease for 50 years, and because it's been present in wild populations in some localities for almost 40 years that some deer guys, and specifically the deer guys in those localities have a pretty good grasp of the situation, and I'm just not sure that's true.

It is true that the disease was first noted 50 years ago in CO. But after it was first identified it took 13 years for them to even figure out that it was a TSE. It's not like that first case was some random mulie wandering a valley in CO, and it took them a while to find cooberation either...it was a captive research herd that researchers had daily access to. 13 years. So to somehow think that our, or their understanding of the disease and its potential are mature may not quite be right.

Also considering all the apparent barriers to any effective means of control once the disease is present, some of the localities you mention where it is already endemic are probably taking a more resigned approach that may not be as appropriate for an area with just the first stages of an "outbreak" or however you want to term it.

Can't stop it, can't even give definitive answers on transmission rates. Can't explain geographically isolated flare ups.

Think about that for a second. Cull buck used the reason SE NM had it was because of deer reintroductions...but he didn't give any dates....or exact location for a reason.

How does CWD show up in the middle of a military base....

Now the fun kicker Norway has CWD in free range animals since they decided to test for it... explain that

There are theories that could explain geographically isolated incidence. The fact that the prions survive carrion feeders who can then deposit them elsewhere. The fact that the prions have been shown to bind to plants that grow in soils in which they are present. Colorado and New Mexico produce alfalfa that is shipped all over everywhere, and I'm sure you have seen alfalfa fields full of deer just as I have. Could be from careless disposal of infected parts of an infected animal by a hunter who doesn't even know he transported it (your the one who pointed out how easy it would be for a hunter to shoot an infected animal and not know it) It's not that hard to see that there are many possible explanations, even though it's impossible to confirm any of them. The important thing we learn from this is that we have a lot left to understand.

Via your thought process only thing we can do is 100% testing of ALL animals killed throughout the state, and then eradication in all counties where we get positive hits.......

So much for hunting



If we tested every deer killed in TX you want to make a bet on how many counties have CWD?

I'm not sure how you deal with it in wild herds and I don't know that anyone does. The Wisconsin approach seemed a little over the top. I don't think eradication of captive herds is a drastic step if infected animals are found. Actually don't see how one could justify much of anything else. Too much risk to just ignore it.

I know all this, you can look at my past posts asking why area we are not doing eradication and not stoping all hay and grain imports from current CWD hotspots and why are we not testing 100% of deer killed in Texas?

Only make sense if it's that bad of disease, right?

Couple of questions for everyone determined that I'm under concerned.

Since it is in wild populations in 24 states including Texas, can you give me some realistic "prevention measures"? I mean, y'all want to think that there's actually something to be done to prevent it's spread, I'm real curious as to how you would propose to do that.

Also, since it hasn't decimated a wild population anywhere, exactly what are the reasons some state and fed agencies are devoting enormous resources to studying CWD (which we know has a completely insignificant impact on deer in relation to anthrax and EHD), and virtually no resources toward researching those two pathogens? Especially when each of those can kill up to 90% of wild herds in a matter of weeks. And anthrax actually does infect humans.

I'd use it as a long term research opportunity

I have no idea, and neither do you, and if you think that is the destination of my thought process, then you aren't following it very well. I'd never advocate for eradication, and the idea of testing wild populations is beyond ridiculous, especially considering there is no in vivo test. I will even grant that CWD being endemic in Texas is likely inevitable, but that doesn't mean we should just sit down and welcome it. The longer we resist and slow its progress the better the overall understanding of the disease will be when it does reach endemic status. Trying to change my position to one of extremity does nothing to enhance your argument, or diminish mine in its intent.